Are driving standards in the UK getting worse?

[TonyRPH]

I think part of the problem with roundabouts is lane inconsistency.

Some (most?) have the left lane as straight on, and the right lane for turning right / going all the way around.

But then there are others that are marked as right for straight on and left - left turn only.

And as somebody else said, without local knowledge you can't always be sure which lane to use, in the (often) absence of suitable signage / road markings.

I have found lack of good signposting a major issue, especially when I first moved over here from SA. Being confronted with signs that say "East" / "West" was particularly unhelpful, when I knew the name of the place I was headed for, but had no idea if it was to the east or west (or even north / south!) of me at the time. Most unhelpful.

[RobM77]

If there are no markings, then no local knowledge is needed because it'll operate as stated in the Highway Code. This is the case for the two I mentioned on my commute.

[TonyRPH]

Of course it will, but how many people don't know the highway code for approaching a roundabout?

And so often you find that "the locals" all take a specific path (often the wrong one!) around the roundabout, and you the outsider comes along and approaches according to the highway code and promptly suffer abuse.

[RobM77]

TonyRPH said:

Of course it will, but how many people don't know the highway code for approaching a roundabout?

And so often you find that "the locals" all take a specific path (often the wrong one!) around the roundabout, and you the outsider comes along and approaches according to the highway code and promptly suffer abuse.

Yep! Most people haven't got a clue about the Highway Code or how to drive well. I think the government should fund short 30 second adverts for TV and radio on various topics such as how to use roundabouts, how to use signals properly, stopping distances etc.

[LordGrover]

This is compounded by the elimination of right turn lane markings for fear of somebody turning right into the roundabout. :roleyes:

[MC Bodge]

RobM77 said:

Yep! Most people haven't got a clue about the Highway Code or how to drive well. I think the government should fund short 30 second adverts for TV and radio on various topics such as how to use roundabouts, how to use signals properly, stopping distances etc.

I vaguely remember such things on TV in the early-mid 80s.

In more recent times they have only been about "speed kills" or drink-driving. Admittedly, I rarely watch anything from ITV and even more rarely watch things when they are broadcast.

[Mad Chemist]

RobM77 said:

Yep! Most people haven't got a clue about the Highway Code or how to drive well. I think the government should fund short 30 second adverts for TV and radio on various topics such as how to use roundabouts, how to use signals properly, stopping distances etc.

Rob,

I'm with you 100% on this. So much of driving today is knowing what's expected and employing a little self discipline. God, I'm starting to sound like my old man!

..and don't get me started on those using the left lane to turn right or right lane to turn left or more commonly, using the outside of the roundabout for a right exit - and the list could go on and on.

Mad.

[RobM77]

Mad Chemist said:

RobM77 said:

Yep! Most people haven't got a clue about the Highway Code or how to drive well. I think the government should fund short 30 second adverts for TV and radio on various topics such as how to use roundabouts, how to use signals properly, stopping distances etc.

Rob,

I'm with you 100% on this. So much of driving today is knowing what's expected and employing a little self discipline. God, I'm starting to sound like my old man!

..and don't get me started on those using the left lane to turn right or right lane to turn left or more commonly, using the outside of the roundabout for a right exit - and the list could go on and on.

Mad.

I do obviously have tolerance for people who make mistake or who simply don't know the Highway Code, but what gets to me is that 9 times out of 10 when that happens the driver uses their horn or gesticulates at the poor soul who they nearly crash into or cause to brake etc.

This morning was a good example - I followed a taxi driver at 25-30 in a 30 limit, which was fine. The limit then changed to 50 and he stuck at 25-30 for no reason at all; he didn' seem to be looking for anywhere, in fact there was nowhere to look for! He just hadn't noticed the speed limit change and the pavements and houses end. I smoothly and calmly overtook to continue on my way at 50 and he started waving his arms at me and flashing his lights. It's that that really annoys me so much more than people just being a bit thick.

[LordGrover]

The lack of co-operation and selfishness, me first attitude that stinks.

[RobM77]

LordGrover said:

The lack of co-operation and selfishness, me first attitude that stinks.

If someone indicates on the motorway showing their intention to move into a safe gap, most people these days seem to accelerate hard to try and stop them.

[MC Bodge]

RobM77 said:

If someone indicates on the motorway showing their intention to move into a safe gap, most people these days seem to accelerate hard to try and stop them.

it is a by-product of traffic congestion ...and typical cars now having good in-gear acceleration.

[LordGrover]

MC Bodge said:

RobM77 said:

If someone indicates on the motorway showing their intention to move into a safe gap, most people these days seem to accelerate hard to try and stop them.

it is a by-product of traffic congestion ...and typical cars now having good in-gear acceleration.

Sorry, no. It's back to what I said:

LordGrover said:

The lack of co-operation and selfishness, me first attitude that stinks.

[Munter]

Sad to say but I did a little bit of driving in LA a few weeks ago. And it was a pleasant surprise. People actually try to help you change lane or get to an exit. It was a "gentle" experience. Everybody just wafts along not getting worked up. If only UK drivers were as good at cooperation...

[SK425]

RobM77 said:

If someone indicates on the motorway showing their intention to move into a safe gap, most people these days seem to accelerate hard to try and stop them.

Some do, but I don't think it's most. When I signal to do that, I think the uncooperative response from the driver behind happens less than 50% of the time.

[Mad Chemist]

SK425 said:

RobM77 said:

If someone indicates on the motorway showing their intention to move into a safe gap, most people these days seem to accelerate hard to try and stop them.

Some do, but I don't think it's most. When I signal to do that, I think the uncooperative response from the driver behind happens less than 50% of the time.

I usually try to wait until a suitable gap develops, no matter how long that takes, before I indicate my intentions. Does get very frustrating at times when it's really busy in rush hour traffic.

Mad.

[R_U_LOCAL]

Mad Chemist said:

I usually try to wait until a suitable gap develops, no matter how long that takes, before I indicate my intentions. Does get very frustrating at times when it's really busy in rush hour traffic.

Mad.

In busy traffic, there is nothing wrong with using a signal to "ask" for co-operation from other drivers. One or two may continue past you, but someone will usually help you out.

The alternative view is that a signal can sometimes encourage an unhelpful "closing the gap" response, so if the gap is suitable to move into, it's sometimes appropriate to do so without signalling.

[chaz1234]

TonyRPH said:

I think part of the problem with roundabouts is lane inconsistency.

Some (most?) have the left lane as straight on, and the right lane for turning right / going all the way around.

But then there are others that are marked as right for straight on and left - left turn only.

And as somebody else said, without local knowledge you can't always be sure which lane to use, in the (often) absence of suitable signage / road markings.

I have found lack of good signposting a major issue, especially when I first moved over here from SA. Being confronted with signs that say "East" / "West" was particularly unhelpful, when I knew the name of the place I was headed for, but had no idea if it was to the east or west (or even north / south!) of me at the time. Most unhelpful.

Totally agree. The signage is inadequate on many roundabouts. I think all roundabouts should have the same rules. If that is not possible there should be large signs on the approach to the roundabout stating what lane is needed. Many people say roundabouts are brilliant things and really help traffic flow. I disagree Because I think roundabouts rely on local knowledge of which lane to use. In a close town to where I live there is a roundabout that no one uses correctly. They are using the right hand lane to turn left. There are no road markings on the approach. If you use the roundabout correctly You will be a hazard to every road user. Lack of road markings is the main cause of problems.

[RobM77]

chaz1234 said:

TonyRPH said:

I think part of the problem with roundabouts is lane inconsistency.

Some (most?) have the left lane as straight on, and the right lane for turning right / going all the way around.

But then there are others that are marked as right for straight on and left - left turn only.

And as somebody else said, without local knowledge you can't always be sure which lane to use, in the (often) absence of suitable signage / road markings.

I have found lack of good signposting a major issue, especially when I first moved over here from SA. Being confronted with signs that say "East" / "West" was particularly unhelpful, when I knew the name of the place I was headed for, but had no idea if it was to the east or west (or even north / south!) of me at the time. Most unhelpful.

Totally agree. The signage is inadequate on many roundabouts. I think all roundabouts should have the same rules. If that is not possible there should be large signs on the approach to the roundabout stating what lane is needed. Many people say roundabouts are brilliant things and really help traffic flow. I disagree Because I think roundabouts rely on local knowledge of which lane to use. In a close town to where I live there is a roundabout that no one uses correctly. They are using the right hand lane to turn left. There are no road markings on the approach. If you use the roundabout correctly You will be a hazard to every road user. Lack of road markings is the main cause of problems.

I must confess one of my major gripes is lane markings written on the road only and not on signs in busy areas, because when the traffic's heavy you can't see them, but the locals still expect you to know which lane to be in!

Personally I always plan for someone to follow the Highway Code, even if markings show otherwise - it's always a possibility, especially if traffic's heavy and you can't see the road markings. What is hard to plan for is people not following the Highway Code, which seems to be most people these days...

[chaz1234]

Yes I try and do the same. Why are the road planning people building roundabouts that have no clear markings It amazes me road safety is a big issue however roundabouts seem to have no serious planning involved and leave far to much for the driver to decide how to deal with them. There should be clear signs on the approach to every roundabout stating which lane you should be in. There should also be another message saying if you are in the incorrect lane do not worry carry on and turn around when safe.

[RobM77]

chaz1234 said:

Yes I try and do the same. Why are the road planning people building roundabouts that have no clear markings It amazes me road safety is a big issue however roundabouts seem to have no serious planning involved and leave far to much for the driver to decide how to deal with them. There should be clear signs on the approach to every roundabout stating which lane you should be in. There should also be another message saying if you are in the incorrect lane do not worry carry on and turn around when safe.

Avoiding road rage is probably my biggest concern these days on the roads. I'd far rather have 3 points on my license than a brick through my windscreen. On more than one occasion I've been in the London suburbs in crawling traffic masking the lane markings and have realised that I'm in the wrong lane about 100 yards from a roundabout when I spot the lane markings under a lorry or similar. In those instances, I've flicked my indicator on (not barged in or even moved, just indicated to see if someone will let me across) only to get a whole load of abuse from the cars behind me and in the other lane, assuming I'm trying to cut in. I realise that's just their stupidity to assume I know the road, but yes, we could really do with signs as well as road markings!