Are driving standards in the UK getting worse?

[watchnut]

I think standards are dropping.....There are so many reasons one of which the reasons is that many foreign licence holders are allowed to drive here on their licence instantly able to transfer to a full UK licence if coming from the EU. None appears to have similar tests

I say this in the knowledge that I work for an organisation that tests the suitability of persons to drive taxi's, some of these drivers who learnt in say example Romania, come over here, and take a test of competency which is similar to the dvla driving test, if they commit more than 9 minor faults they fail, or one serious/dangerous fault. The vast majority of fail, their driving is shocking

We also test the suitability of drivers to enable them to get jobs....this again involves a test similar to the dvla test above, and at least 60% of them fail......the driving test is a BASIC standard of driving, and most people I sit next to would fail, the most common faults are

Following distance (too close)
Speeding (at least 5 mph over posted limits......often upto 10 mph in 20 mph zones!)
Lack of use of mirrors before braking, signaling, changing direction
Coasting in neutral coming to a stop......really common

Many licence holders I sit next to appear to have no conception on what/how their driving behaviour is affecting others. For example tailgating......many complain of the car behind tailgating them.....yet are less than a second from the car in front, then, when stopping at a junction/lights stop about a foot (30cm if your modern) from the car in front

I agree the killed serious injured figures make great reading for ministers as they are coming down, but they will only come down to a point then start raising again once the technology improves safety no further. We also have to take in medical science being able to keep us alive better, even if we have to live with no quality of life following a bad crash

Attitudes to other road users is declining, we are more important than anyone else, therefore we intimidate, rush, and take risks on roads that are not able to cope with the strain we put on them, thats another reason standards are declining along with many of the points posted above.

If a car had a metal 8 inch spike in front of the steering wheel in place of an air bag....and no seat belts.....standards would be great !!!!!

[FiF]

I get a remainder of just how inattentive drivers are every time I drive down the A449 north of Worcester.

Just north of Ombersley at Sytchampton there is a primary school just by the dual carriageway. At start and finish times there are massive signs with flashing orange lights that you can see at a good distance warning that the left lane is for school traffic and through traffic should move over to the right lane.

Every day one sees people completely oblivious and ploughing down left hand lane and then get surprised when the vehicle in front signals left and then, plus this is the bit that really throws them, the left signalling vehicle brakes to turn into the narrow road to the school.

These people are clearly driving along in a daze.

[MGJohn]

Vast increases in traffic density, massive increases in individual vehicle sizes and weights, both private and commercial now all out of proportion on our traffic infested roads and motorways.

Crowd any mammals into confined spaces and behaviour will deteriorate. Add to that so many drivers stressed up to the eyeballs chasing money and impossible deadlines on the roads is the recipe for widespread misery at best and very serious consequencies at worst.

It will not get better ...

[Raynkar]

MGJohn said:

Vast increases in traffic density, massive increases in individual vehicle sizes and weights, both private and commercial now all out of proportion on our traffic infested roads and motorways.

Crowd any mammals into confined spaces and behaviour will deteriorate. Add to that so many drivers stressed up to the eyeballs chasing money and impossible deadlines on the roads is the recipe for widespread misery at best and very serious consequencies at worst.

It will not get better ...

I love the idea that modern people are stressed and chasing money etc. I hear all the time on daytime TV how people have such busy lives these days. I'm sure the people who say it on TV actually believe it, but I wonder if they would feel a tintsy bit busier if they live many years ago, had to work six days per week with about four days off per year, had no washing machine, dishwasher or hot water on tap, had no transport and no job security at all
Far from having busy lives, modern Brits have more leisure time than in any prior in our history. Try having a two week foreign holding with only four individual (unpaid) days off per year. It's the same with driving, it's a touch easier to drive to work than it was to walk or cycle.

I also don't buy the idea that crowding 'mammals' into one place has a negative effect. Even if we ignore the cues from nature where it leads to a good group dynamic it still doesn't translate to drivers IMHO. Take the example where one lane of a dual carriageway is sign posted as closed and coned off at the point of lane closure. We notice inconsiderate drivers who drive as far as possible and force their way in to the one lane left at the last minute as they stand out, if we ALL did it we wouldn't notice.
The same applies to drivers who constantly over and under take in a queue. They stand out in the crowded lanes as they are the exception.

[SK425]

Raynkar said:

I also don't buy the idea that crowding 'mammals' into one place has a negative effect.

...

They stand out ... as they are the exception.

But you've just picked two examples of bad driving that happen to be rare (and I'm not sure your barging in example even counts as rare). What about all the examples of bad driving that aren't rare? Following too close. Changing lanes without consideration for the driver behind, forcing them to slow down or brake (your barging in example is just a special case of this really). Ditto for joining from slip roads. Not leaving gaps for overtakers in a queue behind a slow vehicle. Moving out to pass a parked car when that forces an oncomer you should have waited for to have to slow down. Passing too close to cyclists instead of waiting for a gap in the oncoming traffic so you can give them appropriate space. As the traffic gets heavier, you see loads of people doing these sorts of things. They don't leap out as you as unusual precisely because they aren't unusual. Whether it's an inescapable consequence of our mammalian DNA, whether it was any better in the past, I don't know. But unquestionably, when there's a lot of traffic about, thoughtless and selfish driving is far from uncommon.

[slyelessar]

I thought drivers were fairly bad in the UK (of all ages I have found...), but since moving to Australia I have found they are MUCH worse over here. They pull out and in front of you willy-nilly, they'll roll back consistently when doing hill starts, and just more general dangerous driving.

I have also observed that they only use the handbrake when parked. They will quite happily hold down both the brake pedal and the clutch whilst waiting in traffic/ at lights (that take forever to change) etc., and nobody seems to block change (although these aren't really to do with dangerous driving).

I MISS driving in the UK, that is how bad it is! The silly thing is, it takes years to get your full licence over here, but they just don't seem to have driving safety shoved down their throat like learners do in the UK.

I feel that most new drivers fall into bad habits after they pass in the UK, and that perhaps half adopting the Aussie system would vastly help improve overall driving competence in the UK. With that said, they must keep the strictness (or be stricter in some cases) that we have in the UK, and not get really sloppy drivers like over here.

The annoying thing is, roads are much bigger over here that you feel even more unsafe when you see a lot of dodgy drivers coming into your lane or speeding around parked cars!

I have come to believe that it is a myth that Aussies are better drivers because their system takes learners so much longer to pass. Truly they are some of the worst I have ever experienced.

Edited by slyelessar on Tuesday 16th June 06:06

[slyelessar]

Also, there aren't many cycle lanes here (woo!), but there was one yesterday in between the middle lane and the lane for turning left at a set of lights, and a REALLY slow cyclist blocking all traffic turning into the left lane. I was tempted to give a 'little' nudge haha.

[TGAoW]

I been driving a lot in Manchester recently and notice the running of red lights is quite high there. Whether it’s going through in a traffic queue or simply ignoring them it’s quite a regular occurrence. I contrast this with London where, last week, I was driving in Capital for the first time in a while and, although the density of traffic was higher, I saw no instances of red light running.

Last month I was in Italy and in terms of driving it’s just scary. I would suggest the Italian nation should be not allowed anywhere near motorised road transport. An English friend of mine lives in Italy and told me that, when he drove in Naples for the first time, where I am told even Italian’s fear to drive, he was honked at when he stopped at a red light, so after that he “went native” and ran them like the locals!

[MGJohn]

Yes, they are getting worse. It only requires a small percentage of drivers to drive badly to spoil it for the rest of us.

Look around you next time you're in the now all too frequent traffic hold ups or slow moving lines of dense heavy traffic. Folks stressed up to their eyeballs not concentrating on driving but all too easily distracted by the pressures of earning a crust in all its forms. Mobile phone use whilst driving appears more frequent now than before it became a crime.

The huge number of Foreign Trucks in our towns, roads and on our Motorways exacerbates this further as frequent footage on those numerous Police, Camera Action type TV programmes show time and again.

I see no evidence that things will improve every trip I take lately.

So, keep 'em peeled at all times and switch off that poxy phone whilst at the wheel.

[jbsportstech]

lot of aggressive drivers.

I try and allow other people and an anticipate what is going to happen which reduces risk and chance of getting into aggressive situations.

This doesn't avoid them but if some of the people just stopped and considered how their actions effect others.

Lady the other day changed lane without consulting her mirrors and pulled across in front of me. I then watched her drive erratically in 30mph two lane through the centre of taunton weaving and tailgating. I thought it was aggression based when the car in front turn off she carried on weaving. Wasn't till I got along side her and saw she was reading something on her phone. I have dash cam and filmed all this. Turns out she lives just down the road from me we get to her house and all of sudden takes of like a looney round the corner as I had reconsied the car by now and new were she lived(citroen ds5 thing).

I parked up and watched the footage back on my camera she pulls up onto her drive minutes later wind my window and mention her terrible dangerous driving and I have it on my dash cam with her on her phone. She just looks at me blankly. Then I see since you have nothing to say for yourself I will be uploading the footage to youtube and the local police. She says you can't do that as its illegal. No its not love.

[StressedDave]

jbsportstech said:

Lady the other day changed lane without consulting her mirrors and pulled across in front of me. I then watched her drive erratically in 30mph two lane through the centre of taunton weaving and tailgating. I thought it was aggression based when the car in front turn off she carried on weaving. Wasn't till I got along side her and saw she was reading something on her phone. I have dash cam and filmed all this. Turns out she lives just down the road from me we get to her house and all of sudden takes of like a looney round the corner as I had reconsied the car by now and new were she lived(citroen ds5 thing).

I parked up and watched the footage back on my camera she pulls up onto her drive minutes later wind my window and mention her terrible dangerous driving and I have it on my dash cam with her on her phone. She just looks at me blankly. Then I see since you have nothing to say for yourself I will be uploading the footage to youtube and the local police. She says you can't do that as its illegal. No its not love.

OK, a few things stand out in this post:

1. Who appointed you to be a member of Her Majesty's Traffic Constabulary (Amateur Auxiliary Division)?
2. Would you have had the same exchange had the driver of the DS5 been a powerfully-built, goatee sporting, company director with HATE and HATE tattooed on his knuckles and clutching a can of Red Bull? Asking a random woman whether she wants to see your dashcam footage is possibly not the best chat-up line I've heard to date.
3. Presumably if you're going to upload the dashcam footage to YouTube, you'll be uploading every other single hour of same so that we can go through it with a fine-toothed comb and find all those incidents of careless driving or that without reasonable consideration that you've managed to accrue and post them to the Old Bill?

[PR36]

Does anyone drive in London.. quite surprising how regularly you see drivers aggressively trying to cut into the front of queues, running red lights, people looking down at their lap texting. Little while back was driving at 6.30am and a chap overtakes me in pouring rain racing at very high speed and I remember thinking he wasn't going to make the lights or roundabout, he never slowed and brake lights never came on, just ploughed into the side of some poor chap, it was so surreal I could only conclude at the time he must have been high as a kite. I remember on the news a while back some mention of how many drivers in London have no insurance, don't quote me but something like 1 in 10 and in certain areas the figure was higher. Makes you wonder how many are driving with no license. Not good whichever way you want to quantify it.

Edited by PR36 on Friday 7th August 16:30

[TonyRPH]

PR36 said:

<snip>people looking down at their lap texting.<snip>

I see this all the time on my daily commute. I've even had people sat at junctions behind me clutching their mobile phone in their hand.

And sadly this is probably much more dangerous than speeding, however because there is a gross lack of enforcement people mostly get away with it.

[anonymous-user]

At the risk of sounding racist and possibly like a member of UKIP, can i suggest that one of the biggest changes to the UK driving environment is the drivers themselves!

When i started driving in the mid 1980's driving was expensive, somewhat elitist and often the preserve of the well off. Cars, and all the things you need to pay for to use one (fuel, tax, servicing etc) were a FAR higher proportion of our income at that time. Hence, a LOT of the driving population at that time was white, middle class and affluent.

Fast forward to 2015, and that, like the UK itself has all changed. Cheap cars (and cheap finance!) means just about anyone can drive, and increasingly those people may not have a white middle class upbringing. This DOES reflect on their attitude to driving, and it does reflect on what you witness on the road.

The simple fact is that a surgeon from is simply not going to drive their 2year old Audi in the same manner as a twice divorced part time brickie in their 15 year old mk1 mondeo. (and that's before you get to (and in this case, neatly avoid!) the case of our increasing non indigenous population << sorry, no idea what the PC term is these days....))

The second big factor for me is just how easy a modern car is to drive. You can drive one without really paying the slightest bit of attention to the road in front of you! My first car, landrover S3 need to be DRIVEN at all times. Just changing gear and steering the thing took concentration, unlike in a modern car, where they pretty much drive themselves. Freed from the underlying necessity to concentrate at all times just to ensure forward progress naturally leads to inattention. Add in the low noise level, excellent brakes (with ABS / stability control) and the average driver today can get to work without paying any attention whatsoever, and that's before you include all the distractions from modern life like texts, smart phones, streaming media, touch screen nav etc etc!

[MC Bodge]

TonyRPH said:

PR36 said:

<snip>people looking down at their lap texting.<snip>

I see this all the time on my daily commute. I've even had people sat at junctions behind me clutching their mobile phone in their hand.

And sadly this is probably much more dangerous than speeding, however because there is a gross lack of enforcement people mostly get away with it.

As a motorbiker and cyclist, sat a bit higher than drivers, I see this on pretty much every road, with traffic moving and stationary. Moreso women than men, in my experience.

[MC Bodge]

Max_Torque said:

The simple fact is that a surgeon from is simply not going to drive their 2year old Audi in the same manner as a twice divorced part time brickie in their 15 year old mk1 mondeo.

Exactly. The surgeon in the Audi will be far more pushy, aggressive and mechanically unsympathetic than the poor bloke trying to keep his old Mondeo going.

[thiscocks]

Ive noticed since the ridiculous near universal 50 limits on all NSL roads I have enjoyed driving much less. Every journey now involves alot of cars doing 50/45 even on NSL roads. Very rarely do you see people doing 60/65 mph anymore.

[Dark85]

Max_Torque said:

At the risk of sounding racist and possibly like a member of UKIP, can i suggest that one of the biggest changes to the UK driving environment is the drivers themselves!

When i started driving in the mid 1980's driving was expensive, somewhat elitist and often the preserve of the well off. Cars, and all the things you need to pay for to use one (fuel, tax, servicing etc) were a FAR higher proportion of our income at that time. Hence, a LOT of the driving population at that time was white, middle class and affluent.

Fast forward to 2015, and that, like the UK itself has all changed. Cheap cars (and cheap finance!) means just about anyone can drive, and increasingly those people may not have a white middle class upbringing. This DOES reflect on their attitude to driving, and it does reflect on what you witness on the road.

The simple fact is that a surgeon from is simply not going to drive their 2year old Audi in the same manner as a twice divorced part time brickie in their 15 year old mk1 mondeo. (and that's before you get to (and in this case, neatly avoid!) the case of our increasing non indigenous population << sorry, no idea what the PC term is these days....))

The second big factor for me is just how easy a modern car is to drive. You can drive one without really paying the slightest bit of attention to the road in front of you! My first car, landrover S3 need to be DRIVEN at all times. Just changing gear and steering the thing took concentration, unlike in a modern car, where they pretty much drive themselves. Freed from the underlying necessity to concentrate at all times just to ensure forward progress naturally leads to inattention. Add in the low noise level, excellent brakes (with ABS / stability control) and the average driver today can get to work without paying any attention whatsoever, and that's before you include all the distractions from modern life like texts, smart phones, streaming media, touch screen nav etc etc!

Interesting example you chose there, nearly new Audis don't exactly have a reputation for being well driven. Anecdotally at least it is more expensive cars that are driven more poorly - perhaps a self entitled, me first attitude that is likely tied to wealth, or at least the need to show it.

The second point I think is a good one, if you put most of today's drivers in cars from even 20years ago they'd crash before they made it to Waitrose(or Lydl).

[Munter]

thiscocks said:

Ive noticed since the ridiculous near universal 50 limits on all NSL roads I have enjoyed driving much less. Every journey now involves alot of cars doing 50/45 even on NSL roads. Very rarely do you see people doing 60/65 mph anymore.

They do 60 on the dual carriageways. "They" also believe that 60 is the limit on dual carriage ways because apparently it was when they learnt.

Edited by Munter on Monday 10th August 16:39

[FiF]

Munter said:

thiscocks said:

Ive noticed since the ridiculous near universal 50 limits on all NSL roads I have enjoyed driving much less. Every journey now involves alot of cars doing 50/45 even on NSL roads. Very rarely do you see people doing 60/65 mph anymore.

They do 60 on the dual carriageways. "They" also believe that 60 is the limit on dual carriage ways because apparently it was when they learnt.

There are two statics on an NSL DC between home and Worcester. If you are behind someone doing 70 it's always a good idea on final approach to these cameras to make more space ready for the anchors going on. Muppets.

In worst case scenario, you can see people doing 60 who also slam on. They have no idea of the limit or their own speed, or possibly both. Double muppets.