Get on with it!
Discussion
The point is a car doing 5mph slower doesn't always mean you feel compelled to overtake. Letting yourself get to your destination 1 min later is no great shakes and the only reason why you'd feel compelled to overtake is because that min matters. On the same basis you'd never let a car pull out, you'd take ever opportunity to minimise your journey time.
The key bit is the car in front is not going slow, just slower than you were. Overtaking at every opportunity because the car in front is a bit slower just feels like you need to take a chill pill
The key bit is the car in front is not going slow, just slower than you were. Overtaking at every opportunity because the car in front is a bit slower just feels like you need to take a chill pill
mph1977 said:
saved at least 10 minutes each way on a journey today by overtaking per roadcraft and not by Brake;s idiotic advice
Just for clarity, my comments about not always feeling compelled to overtake are not linked to brake in any way shape or form. They're linked much more to the speed differentials and knowing the roads, how long I might be behind someone and the mood I'm in. I'm not sure brake condone having over 1000bhp across 3 cars in the garage. Drive a flash car (and I'm contrasting behaviours between cars I drive regulatory) and I can assure you there are plenty of people who feel they need to prove something and I've simply learnt to not get involved. Maybe that's why I'm more chilled. There was a 5 car 2 fatality accident near me over the summer which is thought to be linked to an overtake that someone took exception to.
10 min is some saving if we're talking about all single lane roads (I don't really put multiple lane driving in the same category as single lane overtaking personally).
Jonsv8 said:
2-3 feet?
Let's hope the vehicle in front doesn't daydream and roll back, put it into reverse by mistake or break down. I'd advocate more like 10 feet as a minimum.
The normal rule is to stop so you can see the wheels of the vehicle in front : that way , should it break down or fail to move off for any other reason , you have sufficient space to manoeuvre around it without needing to reverse first .Let's hope the vehicle in front doesn't daydream and roll back, put it into reverse by mistake or break down. I'd advocate more like 10 feet as a minimum.
watchnut said:
Taking it further is the numptys who slow and either stop, or nearly stop at roundabouts...then look to see if they can go....drives me nuts.....when sometimes even 2,3,4 cars behind them you can see there is nothing there that is going to be "slowed down or change direction" if they simply just "Looked first"...."assess"...."decide"......"then act"
many many drivers now "act" first then look......get on with it
My learners, and then when I do fleet work are encouraged to "L.A.D.A".....(Look assess decide act) .....it surprises so many licence holders that they can actually turn their head to the right and look out of the off side front window!
I've developed a pet hate re some drivers at roundabouts who will approach and enter trafficating right for any exit other than the first one , even if their chosen exit is straight ahead or earlier : this is particularly noticeable on classic roundabouts placed where there would otherwise be a crossroads , with four roads at 90 deg apart .many many drivers now "act" first then look......get on with it
My learners, and then when I do fleet work are encouraged to "L.A.D.A".....(Look assess decide act) .....it surprises so many licence holders that they can actually turn their head to the right and look out of the off side front window!
Follow one of these numpties in , they approach positioned to the right and signalling right , and you would expect them to turn right , and may legitimately , if going straight ahead yourself you may well be positioned left and consider passing to their left , road width/lanes permitting , only to find a breakaway signal coming on as they pass the first exit - I usually reward that with a horn warning to wake them up and make them realise I'm there , but most remain oblivious to their folly .
The other annoyance is , if waiting to join a roundabout and you see a car approach from the opposite direction , trafficating right , it is reasonable to presume they are turning right and will pass in front of you , but again they were going straight ahead and you could have gone rather than wait for them to pass ( Grrrr ) .
I have noticed this seems mainly to be done by younger people , and have even seen driving school cars being driven in this manner - so I wonder if it is some 'dumbing down' of roundabout procedure now being taught ?
JonV8V said:
Just for clarity, my comments about not always feeling compelled to overtake are not linked to brake in any way shape or form. They're linked much more to the speed differentials and knowing the roads, how long I might be behind someone and the mood I'm in. I'm not sure brake condone having over 1000bhp across 3 cars in the garage.
Drive a flash car (and I'm contrasting behaviours between cars I drive regulatory) and I can assure you there are plenty of people who feel they need to prove something and I've simply learnt to not get involved. Maybe that's why I'm more chilled. There was a 5 car 2 fatality accident near me over the summer which is thought to be linked to an overtake that someone took exception to.
10 min is some saving if we're talking about all single lane roads (I don't really put multiple lane driving in the same category as single lane overtaking personally).
talking aobut a fairly rural area where the yokels can;t use the few bits of DC properly ... but over half the journey is on single lane roads and when the lines of traffic you work through are the interbreds who follow the wagons who are stuck behind a tractor ... Drive a flash car (and I'm contrasting behaviours between cars I drive regulatory) and I can assure you there are plenty of people who feel they need to prove something and I've simply learnt to not get involved. Maybe that's why I'm more chilled. There was a 5 car 2 fatality accident near me over the summer which is thought to be linked to an overtake that someone took exception to.
10 min is some saving if we're talking about all single lane roads (I don't really put multiple lane driving in the same category as single lane overtaking personally).
oddly enough the only person who took umbrage was a relatively new audi A6 with a not especially pricy personal plate ... though perhaps his SMS was activated as he was shaken out of his sleep following by a Corsa CDTI passing him and then taking 2 more vehicles on the same stretch ...
it was the time of day that added up to the saving,. do the same trip early doors or late at night when the agricultural impediments and the local interbreds aren;t out and how quickly you do that stretch depends on how much notice you take of the politically lowered to 50 mph bits and how well you can read the road, anticipate and maknage to use the topography to look beyond the limit point .
Edited by mph1977 on Thursday 10th September 10:50
JonV8V said:
Drive a flash car (and I'm contrasting behaviours between cars I drive regulatory) and I can assure you there are plenty of people who feel they need to prove something and I've simply learnt to not get involved. Maybe that's why I'm more chilled. There was a 5 car 2 fatality accident near me over the summer which is thought to be linked to an overtake that someone took exception to.
I fell foul of an idiot like that the other day ( insecurity complex/ something to prove ) . Usually I am quite laid back and just follow the traffic if making reasonable pace , but it was a nice sunny day , moderately busy A road with traffic doing 40 ish and safe gaps so took overtakes where safe , and had made several hops up the queue withiout endangering or upsetting anyone . At one point I had a clear view past with a 'landing zone' two cars ahead , so I started to overtake , got past the first car then alongside Mr Red Jaguar XF who decided to gun it and prevent me getting back in , thankfully my Mercedes SL had sufficient power to get past the hatchback he had closed up on , but not without me breaking the speed limit and running onto a double line system with the solid line on my side - neither of which I'd intended to do ; I also got flashed at by an oncoming car to whom I held up my hand in apology - all because someone deliberately blocked my overtake .
Astoundingly , the next thing I heard was the roar of his engine as he passed the car he had just forced me to pass , this around a bend with double solid lines , then almost into the side of my car as he had to brake to avoid oncoming traffic - I really thought he was going to hit me - oncoming cars , two cars in front of me , and the car behind all had to brake - it nearly was a bad one . After the series of bends , he roared out from behind me and overtook about six cars down a straight , cutting in at the front with an oncoming car flashing him . I was glad to see the back of him .
I should add that I was annoyed with myself for falling into that situation , and when he roared past me I was still fuming so didn't get his number .
Edited by Pontoneer on Thursday 10th September 11:47
Pontoneer said:
I should add that I was annoyed with myself for falling into that situation , and when he roared past me I was still fuming so didn't get his number .
You don't say whether you considered moving into the space behind Mr JagDrivingtEdited by Pontoneer on Thursday 10th September 11:47
t. Beyond that possibility; I fail to see how you could have avoided it, beyond not making progress in the first place, and puttering along.
Dr Jekyll said:
WD39 said:
JonV8V said:
Dr Jekyll said:
WD39 said:
Exactly. If I catch up with someone then I adopt their speed. Unless, as I said previously, it is crawling traffic ie farm vehicles etc.
Why? What benefit do you derive from not taking a safe overtaking opportunity? Why not drive slower in the first place?It's called free choice. Why would anyone ever let someone out of a side road? Why do some days I want to get a move on and other days want to drive in a more relaxed way? WD39 can do what they want rather than overtake at every opportunity
Edited by JonV8V on Monday 7th September 20:16
I've no idea what letting people out of side roads or some days driving in a more relaxed way has to do with it.
The point is that if you have decided that (EG) 40MPH is the optimum speed for a particular piece of road on a particular journey, and you come up behind someone doing a speed which you have already decided is inappropriately slow, taking an overtaking opportunity that presents itself is perfectly sensible. If the slower vehicle wasn't there would you slow down anyway?
If you are sitting at a set of traffic lights and don't bother to go when the light is green and it's perfectly clear but sit dithering for a while or wait for the next couple of changes. Is that a reasonable choice? No, it's sloppy.
When I'm driving at a set pace and I catch up with a slower vehicle, my policy is to position for a view, keep a flexible gear and take any obvious overtakes which present themselves to me. No need to be pushy or aggressive, but sit in the right place, in the right gear, and sooner or later an overtaking opportunity will present itself to you - sometimes it'll be giftwrapped with a big bow on it and a little card saying "TAKE ME".
In these circumstances, it'd be rude not to, wouldn't it?
In these circumstances, it'd be rude not to, wouldn't it?
esxste said:
You don't say whether you considered moving into the space behind Mr JagDrivingtt.
Beyond that possibility; I fail to see how you could have avoided it, beyond not making progress in the first place, and puttering along.
My fear was that , doing what he'd just done , that if I went for my brakes to go in behind him , he might do the same and block me .t. Beyond that possibility; I fail to see how you could have avoided it, beyond not making progress in the first place, and puttering along.
It was an instinctive thing , but I had the power on , was in a responsive gear , and was already passing him when he did it , so it seemed the better thing to do , of the two options available .
R_U_LOCAL said:
When I'm driving at a set pace and I catch up with a slower vehicle, my policy is to position for a view, keep a flexible gear and take any obvious overtakes which present themselves to me. No need to be pushy or aggressive, but sit in the right place, in the right gear, and sooner or later an overtaking opportunity will present itself to you - sometimes it'll be giftwrapped with a big bow on it and a little card saying "TAKE ME".
In these circumstances, it'd be rude not to, wouldn't it?
In these circumstances, it'd be rude not to, wouldn't it?
R_U_LOCAL said:
When I'm driving at a set pace and I catch up with a slower vehicle, my policy is to position for a view, keep a flexible gear and take any obvious overtakes which present themselves to me. No need to be pushy or aggressive, but sit in the right place, in the right gear, and sooner or later an overtaking opportunity will present itself to you - sometimes it'll be giftwrapped with a big bow on it and a little card saying "TAKE ME".
In these circumstances, it'd be rude not to, wouldn't it?
which fits with what roadcraft says, what ROADA seem to teach and with the advice i've been given by police and ambulance service drivers / trainersIn these circumstances, it'd be rude not to, wouldn't it?
mph1977 said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
When I'm driving at a set pace and I catch up with a slower vehicle, my policy is to position for a view, keep a flexible gear and take any obvious overtakes which present themselves to me. No need to be pushy or aggressive, but sit in the right place, in the right gear, and sooner or later an overtaking opportunity will present itself to you - sometimes it'll be giftwrapped with a big bow on it and a little card saying "TAKE ME".
In these circumstances, it'd be rude not to, wouldn't it?
which fits with what roadcraft says, what ROADA seem to teach and with the advice i've been given by police and ambulance service drivers / trainersIn these circumstances, it'd be rude not to, wouldn't it?
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