Queue bypassing using slip roads
Discussion
Can anyone comment on the legality / morality of using the exit and entry sliproads at a typical 'cloverleaf' junction to bypass queuing traffic on the main carriageway? I suppose it's akin to doing a '540' at a roundabout from the right-hand lane?
Whether anything is gained will usually depend on the state of the entry slip, I suppose...
Whether anything is gained will usually depend on the state of the entry slip, I suppose...
I've done it to great effect but not sure I'd call it advanced, just making use of extending your vision as far as you can see and better planning than your average driver.
I've also made use of parallel "access" roads to avoid queuing at pedestrian crossings. Again similar to the above and nothing against it in the Highway Code but most drivers would feel you'd cheated and queue jumped
I do however draw the line at nipping through a petrol station forecourt to short circuit a pedestrian crossing but I've witnessed it being done
I've also made use of parallel "access" roads to avoid queuing at pedestrian crossings. Again similar to the above and nothing against it in the Highway Code but most drivers would feel you'd cheated and queue jumped
I do however draw the line at nipping through a petrol station forecourt to short circuit a pedestrian crossing but I've witnessed it being done
280E said:
Can anyone comment on the legality / morality of using the exit and entry sliproads at a typical 'cloverleaf' junction to bypass queuing traffic on the main carriageway? I suppose it's akin to doing a '540' at a roundabout from the right-hand lane?
Whether anything is gained will usually depend on the state of the entry slip, I suppose...
A 540 at a roundabout? That's 360+180 = 1 + 1/2 total trips round the roundabout, so going back the way you came? Probably best from the right-hand lane (if there is one) but would surely confuse other drivers.Whether anything is gained will usually depend on the state of the entry slip, I suppose...
Glosphil said:
A 540 at a roundabout? That's 360+180 = 1 + 1/2 total trips round the roundabout, so going back the way you came? Probably best from the right-hand lane (if there is one) but would surely confuse other drivers.
There has been some 'discussion' before about the numbers, so let's say: "turning left or going straight on at a roundabout by approaching in the right-most lane and doing a full circuit of the roundabout".Hope that's clearer....
Wouldn't 360° be going back the way you came? 540° is straight on but with a superfluous circuit of the island while you make up your mind and/or admire the ornamental sculpture from every possible angle. I think the angle we're after is 450°. 
Back to the top. Since a lot of the congestion at busy junctions is due to traffic streams having to merge or cross over, anything that unnecessarily increases the amount of this may get an individual driver through a little quicker but the overall effect is to reduce the throughput of the junction.
450s may be the same, or they may not. If the roundabout is congested with straight-on traffic and the left lane is backed up, but you want to go left and the right lane is clear, a 450 is perfectly valid and inconveniences nobody. But if it's the left exit that has the problem, you're just jumping to the head of the queue and trying to force your way in, potentially contributing to a jam on the roundabout itself that is more disruptive than a tailback on the approach. And it may not be obvious from the back of the queue which of these you will find when you get to the front.
Back to the top. Since a lot of the congestion at busy junctions is due to traffic streams having to merge or cross over, anything that unnecessarily increases the amount of this may get an individual driver through a little quicker but the overall effect is to reduce the throughput of the junction.
450s may be the same, or they may not. If the roundabout is congested with straight-on traffic and the left lane is backed up, but you want to go left and the right lane is clear, a 450 is perfectly valid and inconveniences nobody. But if it's the left exit that has the problem, you're just jumping to the head of the queue and trying to force your way in, potentially contributing to a jam on the roundabout itself that is more disruptive than a tailback on the approach. And it may not be obvious from the back of the queue which of these you will find when you get to the front.
This thread seems to be full of fail 
Click me
180° is back the way you came, 0° (or 360°) is straight on and the left turn being described here is 270°.
I assume you mean a normal junction with one large or two small roundabouts (don't know what I'd call it). Leaving the motorway going straight over and getting back on.
If that's the case, I see no issue doing it. How much you gain normally depends on the entry slip traffic and whether or not the roundabout is controlled by lights. The motorway flow normally needs to be going VERY slow to make it worth while.
Good ones for it used to be both sides of the Dartford crossing on the M25:
Southbound - leave at J30 (A13), straight over the roundabout then down parallel with the motorway past the entrance to Thurrock Services and back on at J31.
Northbound - leave at J2 (A2), straight over again following signs for Dartford. This takes you parallel to the M25 up to the next roundabout at J1b.
The above only really worked when the traffic was rammed waiting for the toll booths. Now that it's done by ANPR cameras the traffic isn't often travelling slow enough to make it worth the effort.
Brian Trizers said:
Wouldn't 360° be going back the way you came?
So if somone asked you to "do a 180 at the roundabout" you'd keep going straight on? Click me
180° is back the way you came, 0° (or 360°) is straight on and the left turn being described here is 270°.
280E said:
Can anyone comment on the legality / morality of using the exit and entry sliproads at a typical 'cloverleaf' junction to bypass queuing traffic on the main carriageway?
Can I ask how you would use (what Google and I would call) a cloverleaf junction to jump past queuing traffic? Surly it would involve getting onto the "wrong" road, going up to the next junction and coming back.I assume you mean a normal junction with one large or two small roundabouts (don't know what I'd call it). Leaving the motorway going straight over and getting back on.
If that's the case, I see no issue doing it. How much you gain normally depends on the entry slip traffic and whether or not the roundabout is controlled by lights. The motorway flow normally needs to be going VERY slow to make it worth while.
Good ones for it used to be both sides of the Dartford crossing on the M25:
Southbound - leave at J30 (A13), straight over the roundabout then down parallel with the motorway past the entrance to Thurrock Services and back on at J31.
Northbound - leave at J2 (A2), straight over again following signs for Dartford. This takes you parallel to the M25 up to the next roundabout at J1b.
The above only really worked when the traffic was rammed waiting for the toll booths. Now that it's done by ANPR cameras the traffic isn't often travelling slow enough to make it worth the effort.
Edited by JordanTurbo on Monday 8th June 12:13
Edited by JordanTurbo on Monday 8th June 12:16
When I saw the title I thought it was going to be about another type of queue bypassing.
Happens all to frequently here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.560463,-0.255464...
Cars on the main carriageway cross onto the slip road only to feed back at the last possible merge point.
The junction is a nightmare for people being in the wrong lane but this is the most annoying element.
Happens all to frequently here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.560463,-0.255464...
Cars on the main carriageway cross onto the slip road only to feed back at the last possible merge point.
The junction is a nightmare for people being in the wrong lane but this is the most annoying element.
Legal? Of course.
Moral? I'd say yes - if you/your journey is more important than everyone else in the queue you're jumping
Another interesting moral point is: by using a less busy route (albeit rejoining the original route further ahead) are you freeing up traffic further back in the queue?
EG main route is queued back to the previous junction, causing a snarl-up, so if some cars leave the main route for a quiet route and rejoin, they could cause the previous junction to run more smoothly. (This is also why I always merge as close as safely possible to the end of my lane.)
Moral? I'd say yes - if you/your journey is more important than everyone else in the queue you're jumping
Another interesting moral point is: by using a less busy route (albeit rejoining the original route further ahead) are you freeing up traffic further back in the queue?
EG main route is queued back to the previous junction, causing a snarl-up, so if some cars leave the main route for a quiet route and rejoin, they could cause the previous junction to run more smoothly. (This is also why I always merge as close as safely possible to the end of my lane.)
simoid said:
Another interesting moral point is: by using a less busy route (albeit rejoining the original route further ahead) are you freeing up traffic further back in the queue?
I guess if the car in question behind will be leaving at the same exit that your using for your "bypass" and will do so during the time you're not on the main carriageway. Yes you have sped their journey up by about one car length because you got out of the way for a bit.However, once you rejoin lane 1 you effectively shuffle a line of cars backwards. The rearmost of which will slip into your original spot, returning the motorway to it's original condition but with you further up.
Edited by JordanTurbo on Monday 8th June 12:57
Do you mean like J11 clockwise on the M25? Take the exit ramp, at the traffic lights/roundabout take the second exit back onto the M way again. That sort of thing?
(Sorry it's in the South, my bail conditions mean that I am not allowed to go North of Watford. At least, I think that was what the judge said.)
Is it legal? Why yes.
Is it moral? We don't have any morals down here.
(Sorry it's in the South, my bail conditions mean that I am not allowed to go North of Watford. At least, I think that was what the judge said.)
Is it legal? Why yes.
Is it moral? We don't have any morals down here.
Would have thought the real question is - is it worthwhile?
Given how much of a queue it would need to be for you to get back on the motorway having gained anything, you'll almost certainly be joining back into stationary traffic a couple of hundred yards further on, and maybe 100 yards or so "up" on where you would have been anyway. Where you'll proceed to wait anyway until the traffic starts moving again.
Once it's moving again (pretty well anything above a walking pace), those couple of hundred yards are meaningless because, if you'd stayed where you were, you can make them up in seconds.
Given how much of a queue it would need to be for you to get back on the motorway having gained anything, you'll almost certainly be joining back into stationary traffic a couple of hundred yards further on, and maybe 100 yards or so "up" on where you would have been anyway. Where you'll proceed to wait anyway until the traffic starts moving again.
Once it's moving again (pretty well anything above a walking pace), those couple of hundred yards are meaningless because, if you'd stayed where you were, you can make them up in seconds.
Might be the difference between making a green light, missing an overtake opportunity, or even a level crossing for 15 mins further in the journey (from personal experience!). And a few MPG at least too.
Another one, on a different note: yesterday I was joining a 2 lane dual carriageway from a slip road (M8J3 westbound, onto the A899 Livingston dual carriageway if anyone is interested). Lane 2 was closed around half a mile from my entry slip, and indeed after an exit slip I wished to use. The f
king morons were queuing in lane 1 causing a tailback onto the slip road I was on, and snarling up the roundabout the slip road bypasses too. Best part of a mile of lane 2 was empty. Unbelievable.
Eta pic:
Another one, on a different note: yesterday I was joining a 2 lane dual carriageway from a slip road (M8J3 westbound, onto the A899 Livingston dual carriageway if anyone is interested). Lane 2 was closed around half a mile from my entry slip, and indeed after an exit slip I wished to use. The f
king morons were queuing in lane 1 causing a tailback onto the slip road I was on, and snarling up the roundabout the slip road bypasses too. Best part of a mile of lane 2 was empty. Unbelievable.Eta pic:
Edited by simoid on Friday 24th July 15:27
simoid said:
Might be the difference between making a green light, missing an overtake opportunity, or even a level crossing for 15 mins further in the journey (from personal experience!). And a few MPG at least too.
Just as much chance of it meaning you get caught by one of those whereas you wouldn't if you'd waited. And the only fuel it saves is part of that which you would have used moving forward in the queue. In fact, accelerating up the slip road then braking down the other side may well use more than crawling it on the flat at idle would have
It's all about knowing your route, and knowing the junctions.
It's a while since I've had to travel that way on a regular basis but some of the junctions on the west side of the M25 are pretty long, meaning that leaving and rejoining the motorway on a junction can yield significant benefits where the traffic is at a standstill on the main carriageway. There's nothing illegal about leaving & rejoining. The moral standpoint would depend on whether you're simply queue-jumping or instead creating an extra lane for a couple of miles to improve traffic flow. The additional moral standpoint is that you can slow down all those fkers who think they can queue-jump by using the junction to by-pass a section of queueing traffic.
It's a while since I've had to travel that way on a regular basis but some of the junctions on the west side of the M25 are pretty long, meaning that leaving and rejoining the motorway on a junction can yield significant benefits where the traffic is at a standstill on the main carriageway. There's nothing illegal about leaving & rejoining. The moral standpoint would depend on whether you're simply queue-jumping or instead creating an extra lane for a couple of miles to improve traffic flow. The additional moral standpoint is that you can slow down all those f
kers who think they can queue-jump by using the junction to by-pass a section of queueing traffic.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Queue avoiding actually because you're following rules to get a better outcome, anyone can do it and some choose not to and instead moan about those who do. It's like playing squash but never playing a drop shot because you don't want to or can't but then moan when those opponents who can/do beat you.Socialists call it queue jumping and have to get annoyed by anyone "getting ahead"
Hope that clears up your misunderstanding
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