Differences between mainland Europe & UK - roads and drivers
Discussion
My wife and I have just returned from a 2,000 mile tour around mainland Europe, visiting France, Germany, Austria, Luxemborg and Belgium. We drove on a variety of roads (motorway, cities, country etc) at a variety of times of day and days of the week (including rush hour) and the difference from the UK was very noticeable, both in the quality of the roads and the quality of driving. I was wondering what people thought and whether they agreed or not?
Regarding the roads:
Regarding the roads:
- Around 90-95% of the motorway equivalent roads had a different surface to the UK, which was not only smoother but noticeably quieter; the difference in noise compared to the UK really was very noticeable indeed.
- Most countries had a low tech answer to the new fangled lane change warnings in modern cars – stripey paint between lanes that hums gently as you change lanes; something I’ve never seen in the UK (we just have the ribbed solid line demarking the hard shoulder).
- Some single carriageway “A roads” had barriers down the middle, particularly in accident hot spots and faster sections, which surely must make a huge contribution to road safety.
- As has been the case for years now, all motorway junctions have closer dotted lines between lane 1 and lane 2, discouraging lane changing at junctions for improved safety.
- There were plenty of areas where HGV overtaking was banned during peak times. My commute on the A34 and A303 needs this so badly!!
- Lower speed limits for caravans and HGVs were commonplace in areas of crosswinds or steep downhills, as were different speed limits for all vehicles in wet and dry weather.
- Another neat idea were signs at roadworks and traffic lights asking drivers to switch their engines off when stationary, which made a noticeable different to noise and pollution. There’s a level crossing near our house in the UK where cars often have to wait for five minutes or more and it’s so noisy and smelly sometimes, we could really do with that!
- On motorway equivalent roads there were boards showing the cost of fuel a few kilometres before each service station – very useful.
- There was a rather nice lack of speed bumps in urban areas. I don’t think I crossed one speed bump during the whole holiday.
- Speed limits on the whole seemed more sensible on motorways (i.e. higher – typically 130kph), and perhaps as a result, when speed limits were lower they were generally obeyed.
- One negative was the frequent road closures due to roadworks without any diversions in place. For example, for the G7 summit in Garmisch-Partenkirchen, the police closed all the roads approaching the town at quite a large radius (20-30 miles perhaps), but didn’t offer a single diversion. We were travelling from East to West past GP and tried many routes unsuccessfully, finally ending up finding a route, but it wasted about an hour or two of our time. At other times, we came across roadworks blocking main routes through towns and had to take to residential streets to find a way round, with no guidance or diversions in place at all.
- Aggression: There was far less jostling for space and general aggravation than in the UK. I didn’t witness one road rage incident in our entire time, compared with the several I’ve seen since our return to the UK since just Sunday evening. I also completed plenty of overtaking manoeuvres on single carriageway roads and not once did I get flashed or get hand signals etc from the driver being overtaken – something fairly common in the UK even if you overtake by the book and very carefully.
- Indicating: Indicating properly (i.e. prior to a move) seems far more common in Europe than it is in the UK, where it has virtually disappeared altogether, with about a third of drivers never indicating and the rest just flicking an indicator on after they’ve started their move.
- This is a subtle thing, and I doubt I can report this reliably, but I didn’t notice prejudicial treatment against certain makes or types of car like in the UK.
- Anticipation: In the UK, when overtaking cars in lane one, I’ve noticed that if drivers in lane one are about to come across a slower vehicle such as a lorry, those people normally drive up to the lorry and then brake and look for a gap in lane 2, whereas I noticed in mainland Europe virtually all drivers seemed to be looking ahead enough to indicate and move round the lorry without changing their speed. The reason this helps traffic flow is that in the UK it means a 60mph car joining lane 2 and slowing traffic, which causes bunching, where abroad if a car in lane one moves over at 115kph, 130kph traffic can ease of the gas gently and then get back up to speed again without affecting the flow of traffic.
- Accidents: We didn’t pass the scene of any accidents at all in 2,000 miles over 16 days. Since arriving back in Folkestone on Sunday evening I’ve been stuck in two queues caused by accidents and witnessed one yesterday afternoon on my way home from work. I realise this is proportional to traffic density, but I’d genuinely like to see accident data per car for different countries as it seemed lower abroad.
- Obstructive pavement parking: This didn’t seem to exist in Europe, even in the suburbs when we diverted due to road closures, but it’s prevalent in the UK.
- It’s not all positive, there were some odd cultural phenomena, such as in Germany it seemed commonplace to pull out in front of other drivers on single carriageway roads causing them to slow (weirdly I didn't see this in other countries). I never saw anyone flash or get irritated when this happened, it just seemed normal. Not a huge issue, but curious nonetheless. As has always been the case, tailgating on motorways is common abroad, esp in France, but it doesn’t seem to be in malice at all, it’s just normal (often those same people moved back in with me after my overtake and even waved me out at the next lorry etc). Those things weren’t so good, but by and large the driving standards were much better than the UK; that really has been quite noticeable today and yesterday during my commute to work in the UK.
Yes, overtaking is seen as more normal (in France, anyway, where I've done most of my continental driving) but I've still seen some pretty hairy manoeuvres, especially on blind crests and even once at a level crossing on a mountain road. The white Renault 5 stuck to the back bumper is still a feature of rural driving too; it's probably just my magnetic GB plate.
But I do appreciate the French way of joining a motorway. Even though acceleration lanes are typically shorter than ours, they look for a gap in the traffic, match speed and merge smoothly. I've never, in 15 trips to France, seen the UK-standard method of driving at the side of the vehicle in lane 1 and expecting it to move over.
But I do appreciate the French way of joining a motorway. Even though acceleration lanes are typically shorter than ours, they look for a gap in the traffic, match speed and merge smoothly. I've never, in 15 trips to France, seen the UK-standard method of driving at the side of the vehicle in lane 1 and expecting it to move over.
Just got back from my first ever trip through France (to LeMans)
The French roads were significantly better flowing and emptier than UK motorways. I held 80mph for extended periods, which is simply impossible on UK roads
I commented to my son that we made better progress on French two-lane roads than we did on UK three and four lane roads
All of the above is (IMHO) down to three factors
1) French drivers seem more disciplined - no lane-hogging and quick to return to lane 1 after an overtake
2) population density - there are 53m people living in England, with an area of 130,000 square km. France has an area of 640,000 square km but only 66m people - quite simply, they have four times the space per head, so the roads are going to be correspondingly quieter
3) There seemed to be a lot less trucks on the road, and even the ones that were there seemed to make good progress
Joining the M25 after 300 miles from LeMans to Calais brought me back down to earth - pathetic lane discipline, overcrowding and horrible surfaces
The other thing that struck me was that France was simply free of litter on the roads - the UK is filthy by comparison
The French roads were significantly better flowing and emptier than UK motorways. I held 80mph for extended periods, which is simply impossible on UK roads
I commented to my son that we made better progress on French two-lane roads than we did on UK three and four lane roads
All of the above is (IMHO) down to three factors
1) French drivers seem more disciplined - no lane-hogging and quick to return to lane 1 after an overtake
2) population density - there are 53m people living in England, with an area of 130,000 square km. France has an area of 640,000 square km but only 66m people - quite simply, they have four times the space per head, so the roads are going to be correspondingly quieter
3) There seemed to be a lot less trucks on the road, and even the ones that were there seemed to make good progress
Joining the M25 after 300 miles from LeMans to Calais brought me back down to earth - pathetic lane discipline, overcrowding and horrible surfaces
The other thing that struck me was that France was simply free of litter on the roads - the UK is filthy by comparison
It's certainly a culture shock when you rejoin the M25 in the UK! The surface is noisy, there's very poor lane discipline, aggressive drivers and on Sunday we got stuck in a huge queue due to an accident within half an hour of leaving Folkestone, and then another one later on!this topic comes up regularly. I won't say that the observations are wrong but i would suggest that sometimes people return from the continent with a slightly rose tinted view because they've driven a lot of motorways. This is because the motorways are normally far less busy and benefit from one difference i do think is valid: lane discipline. French autoroutes are often empty as they cost so much too (i think over £50-ish one-way to Chamonix). Off the autoroute and things become far less disciplined.
To generalise, i think UK is still quite good on A & B roads but bad on M'way and i've often wondered why. Maybe the more formal training instills a respect of the autoroute? Maybe the policing is stronger (in recent past if not these days, they would stop you for lack of indication) or maybe they are culturally used to it as many autoroutes are only 2 lanes, it's our 3 lane system that allowed people to grow up lazy.
Also, rush hour driving abroad can also be quite pushy, and holiday makers are less likely to drive in rush hour on urban roads.
To generalise, i think UK is still quite good on A & B roads but bad on M'way and i've often wondered why. Maybe the more formal training instills a respect of the autoroute? Maybe the policing is stronger (in recent past if not these days, they would stop you for lack of indication) or maybe they are culturally used to it as many autoroutes are only 2 lanes, it's our 3 lane system that allowed people to grow up lazy.
Also, rush hour driving abroad can also be quite pushy, and holiday makers are less likely to drive in rush hour on urban roads.
Nigel_O said:
Just got back from my first ever trip through France (to LeMans)
1) French drivers seem more disciplined - no lane-hogging and quick to return to lane 1 after an overtake
2) population density - there are 53m people living in England, with an area of 130,000 square km. France has an area of 640,000 square km but only 66m people - quite simply, they have four times the space per head, so the roads are going to be correspondingly quieter
3) There seemed to be a lot less trucks on the road, and even the ones that were there seemed to make good progress
all true. 1) French drivers seem more disciplined - no lane-hogging and quick to return to lane 1 after an overtake
2) population density - there are 53m people living in England, with an area of 130,000 square km. France has an area of 640,000 square km but only 66m people - quite simply, they have four times the space per head, so the roads are going to be correspondingly quieter
3) There seemed to be a lot less trucks on the road, and even the ones that were there seemed to make good progress
also, trucks are banned on Sundays and all w/end during the summer
Nigel_O said:
Just got back from my first ever trip through France (to LeMans)
The French roads were significantly better flowing and emptier than UK motorways. I held 80mph for extended periods, which is simply impossible on UK roads
I commented to my son that we made better progress on French two-lane roads than we did on UK three and four lane roads
All of the above is (IMHO) down to three factors
1) French drivers seem more disciplined - no lane-hogging and quick to return to lane 1 after an overtake
2) population density - there are 53m people living in England, with an area of 130,000 square km. France has an area of 640,000 square km but only 66m people - quite simply, they have four times the space per head, so the roads are going to be correspondingly quieter
3) There seemed to be a lot less trucks on the road, and even the ones that were there seemed to make good progress
Joining the M25 after 300 miles from LeMans to Calais brought me back down to earth - pathetic lane discipline, overcrowding and horrible surfaces
The other thing that struck me was that France was simply free of litter on the roads - the UK is filthy by comparison
Actually nearer 65 million in the UK, same as France essentially, but yes, far lower density, and in the south its especially bad given most people live down here!The French roads were significantly better flowing and emptier than UK motorways. I held 80mph for extended periods, which is simply impossible on UK roads
I commented to my son that we made better progress on French two-lane roads than we did on UK three and four lane roads
All of the above is (IMHO) down to three factors
1) French drivers seem more disciplined - no lane-hogging and quick to return to lane 1 after an overtake
2) population density - there are 53m people living in England, with an area of 130,000 square km. France has an area of 640,000 square km but only 66m people - quite simply, they have four times the space per head, so the roads are going to be correspondingly quieter
3) There seemed to be a lot less trucks on the road, and even the ones that were there seemed to make good progress
Joining the M25 after 300 miles from LeMans to Calais brought me back down to earth - pathetic lane discipline, overcrowding and horrible surfaces
The other thing that struck me was that France was simply free of litter on the roads - the UK is filthy by comparison
I love driving in Europe and agree with almost all of your comments but just to put in some balancing points:-
The motorways are far more enjoyable to drive on than ours but the quality of the roads in rural areas and many towns is appalling! Potholes everywhere and so many cobbled streets! All right for spongy French suspension but not a lot of fun with lowered and stiffened suspension!
Although, like the OP, I've rarely seen any accidents I must say that their respect for their own cars is virtually zero! In some countries it is rare to see a car without some dents due to bad parking and low-speed manoeuvring around busy streets! The surprising thing is that the second-hand value of their cars seems much higher than ours?!
Edited to add:-
Lane discipline on motorways! Extremely good throughout most of Europe, totally lacking in UK!
The motorways are far more enjoyable to drive on than ours but the quality of the roads in rural areas and many towns is appalling! Potholes everywhere and so many cobbled streets! All right for spongy French suspension but not a lot of fun with lowered and stiffened suspension!
Although, like the OP, I've rarely seen any accidents I must say that their respect for their own cars is virtually zero! In some countries it is rare to see a car without some dents due to bad parking and low-speed manoeuvring around busy streets! The surprising thing is that the second-hand value of their cars seems much higher than ours?!
Edited to add:-
Lane discipline on motorways! Extremely good throughout most of Europe, totally lacking in UK!
Edited by PoleDriver on Wednesday 17th June 13:32
Robert Elise said:
this topic comes up regularly. I won't say that the observations are wrong but i would suggest that sometimes people return from the continent with a slightly rose tinted view because they've driven a lot of motorways. This is because the motorways are normally far less busy and benefit from one difference i do think is valid: lane discipline. French autoroutes are often empty as they cost so much too (i think over £50-ish one-way to Chamonix). Off the autoroute and things become far less disciplined.
To generalise, i think UK is still quite good on A & B roads but bad on M'way and i've often wondered why. Maybe the more formal training instills a respect of the autoroute? Maybe the policing is stronger (in recent past if not these days, they would stop you for lack of indication) or maybe they are culturally used to it as many autoroutes are only 2 lanes, it's our 3 lane system that allowed people to grow up lazy.
Also, rush hour driving abroad can also be quite pushy, and holiday makers are less likely to drive in rush hour on urban roads.
Very true, although I had assumed that until we went through rush hour Stuttgart (yuk!) and yes, it was extremely busy, but generally was much better than a similar situation in the UK because not so many people were trying to barge in and get a few cars ahead etc.To generalise, i think UK is still quite good on A & B roads but bad on M'way and i've often wondered why. Maybe the more formal training instills a respect of the autoroute? Maybe the policing is stronger (in recent past if not these days, they would stop you for lack of indication) or maybe they are culturally used to it as many autoroutes are only 2 lanes, it's our 3 lane system that allowed people to grow up lazy.
Also, rush hour driving abroad can also be quite pushy, and holiday makers are less likely to drive in rush hour on urban roads.
Regarding motorways, 99% of my UK driving is dual carriageway and motorways so the type of driving was very similar to what I do daily for work.
Without wishing to go through every point, I think there is a lot of rose-tinted specs interpretation here.
Possibly due to being in fine holiday mood?
I have LIVED (not just visited) in UK, France, Austria and Belgium.
There are good and bad roads.
There are good and bad drivers.
A selection of remarks:
The paint used in Belgium on m'ways becomes completely invisible in rain. Completely.
Petrol prices on m'ways is only in France
Speed bumps are found copiously in Belgian and French towns, and are even placed on country roads in Holland (often at entry of bends!!)
Aggression - very subjective of course, but all my continental friends always mention how friendly and patient UK drivers are (outside of London)
Indicating... used, if at all, incorrectly in all of Belgium, and totally ignored in France.
Anticipation: no, it's just the same here (except Germany, where they are indeed better attuned to the huge speed differentials)
Accidents: UK has, I believe, the lowest rate of deaths on the road of all European countries, so I think you were just lucky/unlucky
When I lived in Toulouse, I used to slow at green lights after midnight, as the chance of someone running red was so high. I am not making this up. Better training? I don't think so! It is true that traffic density is lower, so maybe this was the reason they thought it was ok to take the risk...
French motorways are privately-owned. The charges go to maintenance including cleaning. Seems a fair deal, as the péage m'ways are excellent (public ones are as worn out as anywhere else)
The Belgian driving test now no longer requires one to parallel park nor to do a hill start! Hardly believable.
Possibly due to being in fine holiday mood?
I have LIVED (not just visited) in UK, France, Austria and Belgium.
There are good and bad roads.
There are good and bad drivers.
A selection of remarks:
The paint used in Belgium on m'ways becomes completely invisible in rain. Completely.
Petrol prices on m'ways is only in France
Speed bumps are found copiously in Belgian and French towns, and are even placed on country roads in Holland (often at entry of bends!!)
Aggression - very subjective of course, but all my continental friends always mention how friendly and patient UK drivers are (outside of London)
Indicating... used, if at all, incorrectly in all of Belgium, and totally ignored in France.
Anticipation: no, it's just the same here (except Germany, where they are indeed better attuned to the huge speed differentials)
Accidents: UK has, I believe, the lowest rate of deaths on the road of all European countries, so I think you were just lucky/unlucky
When I lived in Toulouse, I used to slow at green lights after midnight, as the chance of someone running red was so high. I am not making this up. Better training? I don't think so! It is true that traffic density is lower, so maybe this was the reason they thought it was ok to take the risk...
French motorways are privately-owned. The charges go to maintenance including cleaning. Seems a fair deal, as the péage m'ways are excellent (public ones are as worn out as anywhere else)
The Belgian driving test now no longer requires one to parallel park nor to do a hill start! Hardly believable.
Edited by monamimate on Wednesday 17th June 12:42
Robert Elise said:
this topic comes up regularly. I won't say that the observations are wrong but i would suggest that sometimes people return from the continent with a slightly rose tinted view because they've driven a lot of motorways. This is because the motorways are normally far less busy and benefit from one difference i do think is valid: lane discipline. French autoroutes are often empty as they cost so much too (i think over £50-ish one-way to Chamonix). Off the autoroute and things become far less disciplined.
To generalise, i think UK is still quite good on A & B roads but bad on M'way and i've often wondered why. Maybe the more formal training instills a respect of the autoroute? Maybe the policing is stronger (in recent past if not these days, they would stop you for lack of indication) or maybe they are culturally used to it as many autoroutes are only 2 lanes, it's our 3 lane system that allowed people to grow up lazy.
Also, rush hour driving abroad can also be quite pushy, and holiday makers are less likely to drive in rush hour on urban roads.
I agree with A&B roads and m'way differences in driving, in general terms. To generalise, i think UK is still quite good on A & B roads but bad on M'way and i've often wondered why. Maybe the more formal training instills a respect of the autoroute? Maybe the policing is stronger (in recent past if not these days, they would stop you for lack of indication) or maybe they are culturally used to it as many autoroutes are only 2 lanes, it's our 3 lane system that allowed people to grow up lazy.
Also, rush hour driving abroad can also be quite pushy, and holiday makers are less likely to drive in rush hour on urban roads.
Indeed, driver training in Austria, France, Belgium (and probably others) includes motorway driving. Very sensible and it shows on the road
In Germany when you exit the Autobahn you'll see a small sign with the letter 'U' followed by a number.
This the Umleitung (or Diversion) number. Follow the signs with the same number and they'll take you to the next Autobahn junction.
So - German efficiency and 'permanent' diversion signs - simples!!
(Why can't we do that here???)
This the Umleitung (or Diversion) number. Follow the signs with the same number and they'll take you to the next Autobahn junction.
So - German efficiency and 'permanent' diversion signs - simples!!
(Why can't we do that here???)
I much prefer driving on the continent on the whole and agree with most of that. Some downsides I have observed though:
- Prioritee a droit (yes, spelling & accents) - A stupid rule. French cities have loads of crossroads with no marked priority and I hate them, it's just asking for accidents and you have to stop every 100yds even when there's nobody else there just to check.
- Unmarked areas - A few places in French towns (Paris in particular) there are huge expanses of road many lanes wide (8+) with no markings at all. When the light goes green it's a giant drag race and melee as everyone mingles wildly in the direction they want to go.
- Italian slip roads - often joining a 130kph motorway with a run-up of about 10yds. When they drive such slow cars this causes issues
- Italian motorway lane discipline - I've noticed that many Italians seem to think the car should directly straddle the white lines rather than go between them, they drive for miles like this.
- Italian speed limits - They often don't bother cancelling or updating them, you just assume after a while that they've ceased to apply as everyone else zooms past you.
- Italians in general - They're all nutters.
- Horns - I prefer the British approach to their use.
I'm doing a hell of a lot of driving in Spain at the moment on the Costa del Sol. All I can say is, for every few days I spend driving out here I simply cannot wait to get back on the M25.
Firstly roundabouts - bearing in mind of course you have to use them in the opposite direction to the UK, the rules here are that the driver who enters the roundabout in the RH lane, i.e. outside lane has priority. This means they can circumnavigate the roundabout all day long, trapping drivers in the inner lane. Of course, they won't be using their indicators either..
Indicators - not used in Spain. Not for lane changes, for junctions, for stopping at the side (if you're lucky) or usually in the middle of the road. The attitude here is basically screw everybody else, I'm too important to signal my intentions with this tonne of metal.
Mirrors - just yesterday driving up a steep hill in a 1.1 rental, infront is some 4x4 going ridiculously slowly. They randomly stop in the middle of the road, then move off again with no indicators or anything. They never check in their mirrors before moving off. Recently I had to perform an emergency stop to avoid hitting two up on a moped which moved off from the kerb, veering into my path without any glance whatsoever to see what was coming. They never really check their mirrors at all infact. Many have been smashed off.
Road surface - unbelievably greasy in the dry, deadly in the wet. I get understeer at 15mph on roundabouts... shows the crap quality of tarmac that's been slapped down.
Road markings - invisible when reflecting the sun, invisible in the wet. Usually faded to s
t anyway.
Road layout and design - one particular stretch of motorway near me, a long downhill right-hander, the camber drops away to the left. You feel as if the car will roll over. Infact, last time it rained I saw an old Zafira the wrong way up in the bushes on this bend.
Parking - Yes we see bad parking in the UK. But not compared to Spain. Here it's a case of just dumping it however they like. Marked bays are pointless. I don't think I've ever seen a car actually inside the bays here. On street parking is even worse, especially on hills. Instead of using the handbrake to hold the car while they do their hill start business, they simply use the next car downhill as an anchor, no matter how much damage it causes. If they're looking for a space, they'll creep along at 5mph despite obviously no available spaces and with complete disregard to the queue behind them. Sometimes if there are no parallel parking bays, they will simply abandon the car on the road, blocking in a couple of parked cars.
Stop wherever they like? Yes, that's Spain. Yesterday saw a battered 206 pull up on the hardshoulder, 50 yards from a lay by thing, 150 yards from a slip road, and no it wasn't broken down, the guy just wanted a piss on the verge.
Vehicle condition.. 99% of cars have damage. Usually scrapes on each of the four corners, plus kerbed wheels or missing wheel trims. The worse ones have quite bad deformation to the bodyshell, missing parts such as wings or bumpers or mirrors, sometimes even a window missing. The better ones just have door dings and scratches all over them.
Use of lights - Last week a moped pulled out on me in the dark on a dual carriageway, with no lights on. The only reason I saw him was because he randomly put his brakes on for a moment, once established in the lane. Couple of days back I had some lady in an old Ford follow me out of a carpark at night, I stopped and got out to tell her to switch her lights on. Eventually she put her sidelights on, so I leaned in turned her dipped headlights on, told her that it was stupid to drive around with no lights on as people can't see her and it's dangerous. Told her to use her brain.
Motorway speeds - limit generally seems to be 120km/h, although don't be surprised to have a pair of Spaniards driving along in the middle lane, 80km/h, having a really good natter with each other with plenty of hand gestures going on from the driver. They generally drive whatever speed they want, whether it's an absolute bomb or dangerously slow, causing others to brake/swerve.
It's actually amazing the level of fkwittery they manage here. Clearly are far as European driving standards go, the Spanish are somewhere at the bottom. The evidence is in the condition of the cars, if they cared about their cars or other peoples property, even in the slightest, then they would be in much better condition. My average journey length over here is about a 5 mile commute, every time I do it I see selfish, dangerous or careless behaviour on the roads. In the UK, I can do 150 miles at not see a single thing (despite the MLMs of course).
Firstly roundabouts - bearing in mind of course you have to use them in the opposite direction to the UK, the rules here are that the driver who enters the roundabout in the RH lane, i.e. outside lane has priority. This means they can circumnavigate the roundabout all day long, trapping drivers in the inner lane. Of course, they won't be using their indicators either..
Indicators - not used in Spain. Not for lane changes, for junctions, for stopping at the side (if you're lucky) or usually in the middle of the road. The attitude here is basically screw everybody else, I'm too important to signal my intentions with this tonne of metal.
Mirrors - just yesterday driving up a steep hill in a 1.1 rental, infront is some 4x4 going ridiculously slowly. They randomly stop in the middle of the road, then move off again with no indicators or anything. They never check in their mirrors before moving off. Recently I had to perform an emergency stop to avoid hitting two up on a moped which moved off from the kerb, veering into my path without any glance whatsoever to see what was coming. They never really check their mirrors at all infact. Many have been smashed off.
Road surface - unbelievably greasy in the dry, deadly in the wet. I get understeer at 15mph on roundabouts... shows the crap quality of tarmac that's been slapped down.
Road markings - invisible when reflecting the sun, invisible in the wet. Usually faded to s
t anyway. Road layout and design - one particular stretch of motorway near me, a long downhill right-hander, the camber drops away to the left. You feel as if the car will roll over. Infact, last time it rained I saw an old Zafira the wrong way up in the bushes on this bend.
Parking - Yes we see bad parking in the UK. But not compared to Spain. Here it's a case of just dumping it however they like. Marked bays are pointless. I don't think I've ever seen a car actually inside the bays here. On street parking is even worse, especially on hills. Instead of using the handbrake to hold the car while they do their hill start business, they simply use the next car downhill as an anchor, no matter how much damage it causes. If they're looking for a space, they'll creep along at 5mph despite obviously no available spaces and with complete disregard to the queue behind them. Sometimes if there are no parallel parking bays, they will simply abandon the car on the road, blocking in a couple of parked cars.
Stop wherever they like? Yes, that's Spain. Yesterday saw a battered 206 pull up on the hardshoulder, 50 yards from a lay by thing, 150 yards from a slip road, and no it wasn't broken down, the guy just wanted a piss on the verge.
Vehicle condition.. 99% of cars have damage. Usually scrapes on each of the four corners, plus kerbed wheels or missing wheel trims. The worse ones have quite bad deformation to the bodyshell, missing parts such as wings or bumpers or mirrors, sometimes even a window missing. The better ones just have door dings and scratches all over them.
Use of lights - Last week a moped pulled out on me in the dark on a dual carriageway, with no lights on. The only reason I saw him was because he randomly put his brakes on for a moment, once established in the lane. Couple of days back I had some lady in an old Ford follow me out of a carpark at night, I stopped and got out to tell her to switch her lights on. Eventually she put her sidelights on, so I leaned in turned her dipped headlights on, told her that it was stupid to drive around with no lights on as people can't see her and it's dangerous. Told her to use her brain.
Motorway speeds - limit generally seems to be 120km/h, although don't be surprised to have a pair of Spaniards driving along in the middle lane, 80km/h, having a really good natter with each other with plenty of hand gestures going on from the driver. They generally drive whatever speed they want, whether it's an absolute bomb or dangerously slow, causing others to brake/swerve.
It's actually amazing the level of f
kwittery they manage here. Clearly are far as European driving standards go, the Spanish are somewhere at the bottom. The evidence is in the condition of the cars, if they cared about their cars or other peoples property, even in the slightest, then they would be in much better condition. My average journey length over here is about a 5 mile commute, every time I do it I see selfish, dangerous or careless behaviour on the roads. In the UK, I can do 150 miles at not see a single thing (despite the MLMs of course).monamimate said:
I agree with A&B roads and m'way differences in driving, in general terms.
Indeed, driver training in Austria, France, Belgium (and probably others) includes motorway driving. Very sensible and it shows on the road
I do find it a little odd that we don't have that in the UK. Indeed, driver training in Austria, France, Belgium (and probably others) includes motorway driving. Very sensible and it shows on the road
But I also find it odd that despite the apparently better driver training - all of those countries have a higher fatality rate on their roads compared to the UK.
As others have pointed out - there is more than a hint of "rose tint" when viewing driving on the continent.
Moonhawk said:
monamimate said:
I agree with A&B roads and m'way differences in driving, in general terms.
Indeed, driver training in Austria, France, Belgium (and probably others) includes motorway driving. Very sensible and it shows on the road
I do find it a little odd that we don't have that in the UK. Indeed, driver training in Austria, France, Belgium (and probably others) includes motorway driving. Very sensible and it shows on the road
But I also find it odd that despite the apparently better driver training - all of those countries have a higher fatality rate on their roads compared to the UK.
As others have pointed out - there is more than a hint of "rose tint" when viewing driving on the continent.
ETA a link to those stats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...
I understand the rose tinted effect, but for me the differences driving in the rest of Europe compared to the UK are utterly profound, far too mcuh to be a rose tinted glasses effect and yes, I have driven in mainland Europe on business as well as pleasure and in rush hour as well as quieter times. In fact I was only chatting to my neighbour about it the other day, as he's just returned from a similar drive to mine through Europe. It's not just UK drivers' stupidity and lack of Highway Code knowledge, it combines with a cultural arrogance and aggression.
RobM77 said:
in Germany it seemed commonplace to pull out in front of other drivers on single carriageway roads causing them to slow (weirdly I didn't see this in other countries). I never saw anyone flash or get irritated when this happened, it just seemed normal.
This is, as someone else pointed out, priorite a droite. I came across it in Germany twenty years ago and couldn't understand how such a sensible lot could come up with something so daft. I think the reasoning could be to do with the calming effect it has on speeds in urban areas
Just returned from a trip to Austria.
What happened to the Germans while I was away?
They have gone from the best m'way drivers to utter dipsticks! I have never seen so many middle lane drivers anywhere, effectively reducing the road to two lanes. Repeatedly found myself in the slow lane gazing across at a few cars in the middle (not overtaking anyone) and a huge number of cars travelling a (very small) fraction faster in the fast lane...
Anyone have an idea what they're putting in the water there now?
What happened to the Germans while I was away?
They have gone from the best m'way drivers to utter dipsticks! I have never seen so many middle lane drivers anywhere, effectively reducing the road to two lanes. Repeatedly found myself in the slow lane gazing across at a few cars in the middle (not overtaking anyone) and a huge number of cars travelling a (very small) fraction faster in the fast lane...
Anyone have an idea what they're putting in the water there now?
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff