Chris Boardman cycling video
Discussion
What do members think about the driving shown in this video? I have a few comments but I'd be interested what others make of it...
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/wa...
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/wa...
it is a shame such a video needs to be made, but I think the standard of driving shown by some of the overtakes in the 'how not to' section is a fair illustration of how badly some drivers deal with cyclists
that said, I don't think I would need to hunt hard to find videos of cyclists riding inconsiderately or even dangerously
as cycling has become more popular in the UK, the need for education and consideration by both cyclists and drivers has increased and, from what I see when I am out my bike or out in my car, there is considerable room for improvement
rather a generalisation I know, but it is how I see it
that said, I don't think I would need to hunt hard to find videos of cyclists riding inconsiderately or even dangerously
as cycling has become more popular in the UK, the need for education and consideration by both cyclists and drivers has increased and, from what I see when I am out my bike or out in my car, there is considerable room for improvement
rather a generalisation I know, but it is how I see it
JPJPJP said:
that said, I don't think I would need to hunt hard to find videos of cyclists riding inconsiderately or even dangerously
Given that inconsiderate cycling is unlikely to kill pedestrians or car occupants, I think your point is a little irrelevant. Plenty of car drivers do make some really bad decisions though when it comes to overtaking (and not just cyclists). People on this site are probably quite experienced at it and find it a trivial manoeuvre, but I get the impression that a great many drivers never really overtake unless absolutely forced to, and they go to pieces. You see this when they're forced to overtake slow moving vehicles like tractors and bicycles.Classic mistakes that I see all the time when out on my bicycle or in my car are:
(*) failing to look ahead properly - overtaking when there is an oncoming car, forcing one or both cars to come to a stop
(*) failing to look ahead properly - overtaking then having to come to a stop / stand on the brakes and pull back in once they spot the bollard in the middle of the road
(*) failing to drop down a gear - forgetting they were in 4th or 5th previously, then having the car lug away slowly as they try to overtake
(*) overtaking for no reason - deciding that they absolutely must overtake because the vehicle ahead is slower, then realising that they need to make a left or right turn immediately afterwards, or there is a queue of stationary traffic ahead.
I don't think most "bad" overtakes are deliberately dangerous, just thoughtless.
The one thing I take issue with in that video is the footnote at the end , "Riding two abreast is NOT illegal - see companion video Two Abreast" .
It may not be unlawful , but it is extremely inconsiderate when two or more cyclists remain two abreast at low speed on a narrow road when they could ( and should ! ) drop into single file to allow themselves to be safely overtaken . I had this issue a few years back when two lycra clad middle aged fatties were wobbling along two abreast on an unclassified country road ; I gave a polite 'toot' from a couple of hundred yards back so as not to take them by surprise , then slowed safely behind them and followed at a safe distance with my car positioned to the offside of the road , thus making it plain that I did not particularly want to follow them at 10 mph or so . Despite the road being clear for some several hundred yards ahead , they refused to move , until an oncoming car appeared , at which they went single file , and I dropped back behind them , but immediately went back out to block me again ; this went on for a couple of miles ( no exaggeration ) which must have taken 10 or fifteen minutes to cover at their pace , until there was a farmyard on the right which allowed me enough space to safely pass them . Some parts of the road were around bends , where I would have no issues holding back until as safe view past was available , but there were plenty of straight bits where a safe overtake would have been on , but for their obstinacy .
As a cyclist myself , I always show consideration to other road users , and will make room for vehicles to safely pass at the first opportunity , as well as giving safe room when I encounter other cyclists as a driver , but this pair were a disgrace and not all motorists would have been as patient with them .
It may not be unlawful , but it is extremely inconsiderate when two or more cyclists remain two abreast at low speed on a narrow road when they could ( and should ! ) drop into single file to allow themselves to be safely overtaken . I had this issue a few years back when two lycra clad middle aged fatties were wobbling along two abreast on an unclassified country road ; I gave a polite 'toot' from a couple of hundred yards back so as not to take them by surprise , then slowed safely behind them and followed at a safe distance with my car positioned to the offside of the road , thus making it plain that I did not particularly want to follow them at 10 mph or so . Despite the road being clear for some several hundred yards ahead , they refused to move , until an oncoming car appeared , at which they went single file , and I dropped back behind them , but immediately went back out to block me again ; this went on for a couple of miles ( no exaggeration ) which must have taken 10 or fifteen minutes to cover at their pace , until there was a farmyard on the right which allowed me enough space to safely pass them . Some parts of the road were around bends , where I would have no issues holding back until as safe view past was available , but there were plenty of straight bits where a safe overtake would have been on , but for their obstinacy .
As a cyclist myself , I always show consideration to other road users , and will make room for vehicles to safely pass at the first opportunity , as well as giving safe room when I encounter other cyclists as a driver , but this pair were a disgrace and not all motorists would have been as patient with them .
MrTrilby said:
JPJPJP said:
that said, I don't think I would need to hunt hard to find videos of cyclists riding inconsiderately or even dangerously
Given that inconsiderate cycling is unlikely to kill pedestrians or car occupants, I think your point is a little irrelevant. Plenty of car drivers do make some really bad decisions though when it comes to overtaking (and not just cyclists). People on this site are probably quite experienced at it and find it a trivial manoeuvre, but I get the impression that a great many drivers never really overtake unless absolutely forced to, and they go to pieces. You see this when they're forced to overtake slow moving vehicles like tractors and bicycles.Classic mistakes that I see all the time when out on my bicycle or in my car are:
(*) failing to look ahead properly - overtaking when there is an oncoming car, forcing one or both cars to come to a stop
(*) failing to look ahead properly - overtaking then having to come to a stop / stand on the brakes and pull back in once they spot the bollard in the middle of the road
(*) failing to drop down a gear - forgetting they were in 4th or 5th previously, then having the car lug away slowly as they try to overtake
(*) overtaking for no reason - deciding that they absolutely must overtake because the vehicle ahead is slower, then realising that they need to make a left or right turn immediately afterwards, or there is a queue of stationary traffic ahead.
I don't think most "bad" overtakes are deliberately dangerous, just thoughtless.
Perhaps the biggest hazard when overtaking, that many drivers don't even consider, is not what is already on their road coming in the other direction but what may enter the road during the overtake. Junctions are especially dangerous - the overtaker looks and sees the road as clear, another driver approaches from a side road looking to turn left into the path of the overtaking vehicle, the driver looks to their right only and enters the road. Equally, a driver may turn right out of a side road thinking they have enough space to clear the vehicle that is being overtaken but hasn't anticipated it being overtaken. Lastly, the vehicle being overtaken may decide to turn off to the right across the path of the vehicle overtaking. It's not just obvious side roads - small driveways, concealed entrances to farms, smalltime garden centres / potato sellers / Christmas trees etc are all things to be aware of.
In the video, although the side roads were visible and clear of approaching traffic, the cyclists could have decided to turn off to the right without indicating in a timely fashion or at all, especially on a quiet road where they may have (wrongly) attributed any road traffic noise solely to the car passing them in the opposite direction. It's hard to say without being in the situation but looking at the demonstration video I don't think overtaking where he did was safe. There was also a crest potentially limiting forward vision but looking at the profile the driver may have been able to see if the road was clear ahead. The stop line on the side road might suggest visibility is limited, though.
In the video, although the side roads were visible and clear of approaching traffic, the cyclists could have decided to turn off to the right without indicating in a timely fashion or at all, especially on a quiet road where they may have (wrongly) attributed any road traffic noise solely to the car passing them in the opposite direction. It's hard to say without being in the situation but looking at the demonstration video I don't think overtaking where he did was safe. There was also a crest potentially limiting forward vision but looking at the profile the driver may have been able to see if the road was clear ahead. The stop line on the side road might suggest visibility is limited, though.
Pontoneer said:
The area used for filming struck me as some sort of driving instruction and test facility , not public roads ?
While the comments about junctions and other hazards are perfectly valid , the sequences were shot for demonstration and I wonder if we are reading too much into it ?
Agree, it does look like some sort of facility but I do think that if you're going to create a video of "How to overtake safely" for general public viewing then it shouldn't accidentally or carelessly reinforce poor practice.While the comments about junctions and other hazards are perfectly valid , the sequences were shot for demonstration and I wonder if we are reading too much into it ?
Pontoneer said:
The one thing I take issue with in that video is the footnote at the end , "Riding two abreast is NOT illegal.....
Indeed it's not illegal in the same way that not using your indicators in a car isn't illegal. It is however advised against in the highway code under certain circumstances (rule 66):"never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends"
It helps if we all try and follow the same rules and guidance - it makes everyone's life on the road that bit easier (and safer).
Moonhawk said:
Pontoneer said:
The one thing I take issue with in that video is the footnote at the end , "Riding two abreast is NOT illegal.....
Indeed it's not illegal in the same way that not using your indicators in a car isn't illegal. It is however advised against in the highway code under certain circumstances (rule 66):"never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends"
It helps if we all try and follow the same rules and guidance - it makes everyone's life on the road that bit easier (and safer).
It also discourages drivers from attempting to overtake and then force their way in to the middle of the group - a very dangerous manoeuvre for all involved.
The only time is causes issues is on roads where there is sufficient space to pass a single cyclist but not enough space to pass two abreast. This essentially means single track roads or very wide roads where there is sufficient space to overtake safely despite oncoming traffic. Most of the time you'll need to use at least some of the oncoming lane to overtake cyclists whether they are single file or two abreast, in which case it makes no difference.
I don't disagree with any of the above , and fully agree that there can be times when cyclists are wise to take control of their space on the road to prevent dangerous overtakes around or near bends .
However , there are others , like the pair I encountered , who seem to think they can cycle two abreast with impunity and never mind anyone stuck behind them - these , tiny minority that they might be , are the ones I was complaining about .
However , there are others , like the pair I encountered , who seem to think they can cycle two abreast with impunity and never mind anyone stuck behind them - these , tiny minority that they might be , are the ones I was complaining about .
Pontoneer said:
However , there are others , like the pair I encountered , who seem to think they can cycle two abreast with impunity and never mind anyone stuck behind them - these , tiny minority that they might be , are the ones I was complaining about .
There are some cyclists who appear to think the only part of the highway code that applies to them is the part dedicated to bicycles.Pontoneer said:
I don't disagree with any of the above , and fully agree that there can be times when cyclists are wise to take control of their space on the road to prevent dangerous overtakes around or near bends .
However , there are others , like the pair I encountered , who seem to think they can cycle two abreast with impunity and never mind anyone stuck behind them - these , tiny minority that they might be , are the ones I was complaining about .
That is fair enough. I'll happily agree that there are inconsiderate idiots using all forms of transport, cyclists included.However , there are others , like the pair I encountered , who seem to think they can cycle two abreast with impunity and never mind anyone stuck behind them - these , tiny minority that they might be , are the ones I was complaining about .
This isn't the best of videos, mainly as it's filmed in what looks like an off-road environment.
I had a chat with a friend the other day - he's a keen cyclist & a member of a cycling club. When I start my Youtube channel (hopefully before the end of the year) we'll get together and make a short film about passing cyclists on the road so you can see my take on the subject.
I had a chat with a friend the other day - he's a keen cyclist & a member of a cycling club. When I start my Youtube channel (hopefully before the end of the year) we'll get together and make a short film about passing cyclists on the road so you can see my take on the subject.
I have voiced my opinion on the video itself some time ago. The video is an educational piece on how to overtake safely on a public road, the film makers have obviously blindly released the video without realising it is wrong. No body else is overtaking cyclists on a closed off area of test roads, so why should they assume others will read into the issues unwittingly built into this 'educational' video?
The video's badly needed, firstly because of the shockingly low driving standards in the UK and secondly because of the disturbingly common and rather bigoted hatred of 'cyclists' by many drivers. I thought it was pretty well made, and as a keen cyclist I really appreciate Chris Boardman's efforts, but this has to be said:
barker22 said:
It looks like the instructor is overtaking the cyclist right before a blind crest.
Doesn't look very safe to me, especially given the videos message is overtaking safely
I can't watch the video at work, but I remember wincing when I saw the overtake!!Doesn't look very safe to me, especially given the videos message is overtaking safely
While I agree that the video has its shortcomings , and that there is a need for instructional videos on this and many other subjects , I think it is laudable that the makers tried to produce something .
I am old enough to remember the short 'Public Information Films' such as 'Reginald Mole-Husband - the best Parker in town' and think we could do a lot worse than re introduce new versions dealing with topics such as lane discipline , safe following distances , adjustment of speed and use of lights in adverse conditions , safe overtaking , even just how to park safely in a car park , and much more .
Getting them aired on mainstream TV , in cinemas and on the inter-web would be invaluable , and perhaps lampooning stereotyped characters who would be recognised on the roads might be a good way of discouraging bad habits ...
I am old enough to remember the short 'Public Information Films' such as 'Reginald Mole-Husband - the best Parker in town' and think we could do a lot worse than re introduce new versions dealing with topics such as lane discipline , safe following distances , adjustment of speed and use of lights in adverse conditions , safe overtaking , even just how to park safely in a car park , and much more .
Getting them aired on mainstream TV , in cinemas and on the inter-web would be invaluable , and perhaps lampooning stereotyped characters who would be recognised on the roads might be a good way of discouraging bad habits ...
I just came across this advert for airbags for cyclists and thought I'd share it here .
I have to say I'm not sure of the advantages vs just wearing a helmet ?
http://www.hovding.com/how_hovding_works
I have to say I'm not sure of the advantages vs just wearing a helmet ?
http://www.hovding.com/how_hovding_works
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