Flashing Headlights / Saying thanks by using the hazard ligh
Discussion
Your opinion on this please.
I know both are contrary to the highway code but it does seem to be the norm these days.
Flashing headlights to warn someone your approaching could easily be taken as I'm letting you out. Using hazard lights to say thanks might confuse someone into thinking there was a hazard ahead.
I've noticed this a lot recently. The Focus has dark tints, where I used to wave to say thanks, I started giving one flash of the hazards. Noticed a lot of people doing it too.
Now I know this isn't the correct thing to do but people tend to get mad when they let you out and you don't say thanks.
Is there a 'right' thing to do to let someone out on the motorway or at a junction or is that in itself a no-no?
I know both are contrary to the highway code but it does seem to be the norm these days.
Flashing headlights to warn someone your approaching could easily be taken as I'm letting you out. Using hazard lights to say thanks might confuse someone into thinking there was a hazard ahead.
I've noticed this a lot recently. The Focus has dark tints, where I used to wave to say thanks, I started giving one flash of the hazards. Noticed a lot of people doing it too.
Now I know this isn't the correct thing to do but people tend to get mad when they let you out and you don't say thanks.
Is there a 'right' thing to do to let someone out on the motorway or at a junction or is that in itself a no-no?
I don't like it - never have.
A headlight flash means "I'm here" and nothing else. During the day I acknowledge a courtesy with a wave and at night with a momentary switch from dipped beam to sidelight and back. Why would you thank someone by burning their retinas out?
In slow or stationary traffic I will leave a gap at junctions, but I leave the decision wherher to go or not up to the other driver. I don't flash people out at junctions.
A headlight flash means "I'm here" and nothing else. During the day I acknowledge a courtesy with a wave and at night with a momentary switch from dipped beam to sidelight and back. Why would you thank someone by burning their retinas out?
In slow or stationary traffic I will leave a gap at junctions, but I leave the decision wherher to go or not up to the other driver. I don't flash people out at junctions.
R_U_LOCAL said:
Why would you thank someone by burning their retinas out?
Sorry I was referring to saying thanks with a blink of the hazard lights (as they would be behind) whereas before I'd give a wave, now they can't see in for me to do it.
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. It's the fact that flashing can be seen different ways to me and maybe 'letting someone know you're there' could be taken by the majority of motorists as 'I'm letting you out'.
R_U_LOCAL said:
I don't like it - never have.
A headlight flash means "I'm here" and nothing else. During the day I acknowledge a courtesy with a wave and at night with a momentary switch from dipped beam to sidelight and back. Why would you thank someone by burning their retinas out?
In slow or stationary traffic I will leave a gap at junctions, but I leave the decision wherher to go or not up to the other driver. I don't flash people out at junctions.
I'm glad someone else does the same as I do !A headlight flash means "I'm here" and nothing else. During the day I acknowledge a courtesy with a wave and at night with a momentary switch from dipped beam to sidelight and back. Why would you thank someone by burning their retinas out?
In slow or stationary traffic I will leave a gap at junctions, but I leave the decision wherher to go or not up to the other driver. I don't flash people out at junctions.
The only 'non standard' thing I do with headlamps is the truckers' signal to let a long vehicle know it is safe to pull back in ; many caravanners have adopted this too .
For acknowledgement of a courtesy , a nod , a smile or a wave if visible is best , Sometimes I might put my hand out the window and give a thumbs up to a driver behind - don't think it is ambiguous . I do sometimes still give hand signals - to emphasise an electrical signal already given , or the slowing down signal before actually slowing down - or if towing someone on a rope to tell them to start braking and keep the rope tight before I start slowing in front .
Agree wholeheartedly about not inviting people out ; I too leave a gap and let them decide - if something goes wrong , you don't bear any part of the blame .
I use my hazards to say thank you when I think it is applicable.
It is a normal everyday occurrence between professional drivers, and has replaced the old sidelights on/off stuff.
No it isn't in the highway code, in some circumstances it may be deemed unlawful, although by whom these days ?
There is being an advanced driver and being an arse, the roadcraft system we tend to refer to when dealing with advanced driving is just a "system".
You gain nothing by pretending the system you've learnt that most people know nothing about is somehow superior to a normal everyday occurrence.
It is also very useful for showing politeness to somebody that has accommodated you in some way when there is no way they can actually see you give a wave of thanks, as the rear of your vehicle is solid.
A wave of thanks is also not in the highway code.
It is a normal everyday occurrence between professional drivers, and has replaced the old sidelights on/off stuff.
No it isn't in the highway code, in some circumstances it may be deemed unlawful, although by whom these days ?
There is being an advanced driver and being an arse, the roadcraft system we tend to refer to when dealing with advanced driving is just a "system".
You gain nothing by pretending the system you've learnt that most people know nothing about is somehow superior to a normal everyday occurrence.
It is also very useful for showing politeness to somebody that has accommodated you in some way when there is no way they can actually see you give a wave of thanks, as the rear of your vehicle is solid.
A wave of thanks is also not in the highway code.
Information.... One of the greatest assets we possess, is the ability to communicate with eachother in different ways, including when driving a car. We can and do make ways to communicate intent up. Waving people on, a couple of blinks of the hazards to say thanks or a headlight flash are widely recognised as acknowledgement that the person being flashed may make their move. It's situational. It's a very direct thought process from a flashing Amber on a crossing, to a flashing headlight. Whose responsibility it is to drive safely, is not a grey area, as it is always the driver's responsibility. Go if the way is clear ie if it's safe.
This is not something to be scorned or outlawed and it is something to be taught and instilled. Died in the wars drivers who will sit staring blankly, inwardly shaking their head in disapproval until the person who has the right of way makes their move, do nothing to instill, impart or teach best practice. They aren't communicating, they are expecting things to work a certain way and won't help in any way. Why should they? After all, they know what it says in a book of rules and at no point is deviation from those rules permitted. I mean, what if they flash or wave someone on, that person then ploughs into the playground of children playing with balls. I'm being mean but my point is that the fear of being blamed is one which is easily dismissed because every driver has the responsibility for their actions.
This is not something to be scorned or outlawed and it is something to be taught and instilled. Died in the wars drivers who will sit staring blankly, inwardly shaking their head in disapproval until the person who has the right of way makes their move, do nothing to instill, impart or teach best practice. They aren't communicating, they are expecting things to work a certain way and won't help in any way. Why should they? After all, they know what it says in a book of rules and at no point is deviation from those rules permitted. I mean, what if they flash or wave someone on, that person then ploughs into the playground of children playing with balls. I'm being mean but my point is that the fear of being blamed is one which is easily dismissed because every driver has the responsibility for their actions.
Pontoneer said:
The only 'non standard' thing I do with headlamps is the truckers' signal to let a long vehicle know it is safe to pull back in ; many caravanners have adopted this too .
Another one here. Been doing it for a very long time (I'm not a caravanner btw).I nearly always get the brief left/right indicator flash in response.
The few exceptions nearly always seem to be from trucks with foreign registrations.
Mostly those from Eastern Europe.
Pontoneer said:
Agree wholeheartedly about not inviting people out ; I too leave a gap and let them decide - if something goes wrong , you don't bear any part of the blame .
This too. Never a good idea to shoulder somebody else's responsibilities.I don't flash to let people out, but my reason is not particularly to avoid blame. It is more that when I am flashed out I feel under pressure to get on with it quickly and I think flashing to give an invitation can encourage the target driver to proceed without taking the normal proper care.
waremark said:
I don't flash to let people out, but my reason is not particularly to avoid blame. It is more that when I am flashed out I feel under pressure to get on with it quickly and I think flashing to give an invitation can encourage the target driver to proceed without taking the normal proper care.
Good point. Perhaps, to go into more detail, I don't flash everyone who could go but isn't. What I do, is sometimes flash people when I have checked that the way is clear for them to proceed in order to help them if they can't be sure, because eg. I'm obstructing their view. I'm not a serial flasher ZedLeppelin said:
headlight flash are widely recognised as acknowledgement that the person being flashed may make their move...
I know of several motorcyclists who have had accidents or near misses, because drivers claimed they flashed their headlights to let them out. They assumed the bike was going to slow after flashing their headlights as there was room to break.What was actually happening was the motorbike was going over bumps which makes the front of the bike "nod".
That is why people should not flash to let people make a move of any type, and why it is a danger. If these people followed the highway code and were not expecting flashing headlights to mean "pull out" these accidents would not have happened.
It is a tricky one, however it is not technically contrary to the highway code...
as mentioned above, the legal understanding of a flash of the headlights is making your existence known...
the purpose for which you make yourself known can vary:
- hello, I am here, don't pull out you silly driver
- hello, I am here, I am pausing to let you out
both could apply - and a wrong reading of the purpose could cause an accident, but fortunately we are not binary people, we see and understand graduation in things, and a headlight flash sits alongside other clues, such as positioning of car / speed / aggresiveness / hand signals (polite or otherwise!) etc.
it is also common now to have a blip of the headlights as the equivalent of lifting your glass / touching your cap - it is an acknowledgement of the other person and their needs - so it could be used to let someone through - that is very different from a more sustained use of the headlights which is more of a warning 'I am here' / 'caution' type of message...
so I see nothing wrong with its use - as to the scenario above with the motorbikes, that is clearly bad driving on behalf of the car driver - there might be room to brake, but it isn't difficult to work out whether the bike is actually slowing down / leaving room... without headlight flashing, the driver makes a judgement as to whether there is room to move before hitting the bike, with it they have that same responsibility only there is now communication and understanding between the two people which makes it smoother - it doesn't at any point remove that responsibility... and you will always have bad drivers, so while I see the point being made, it is not headlight flashes which is the cause - it might be the excuse, but the issue is bad judgement on behalf of the driver
as mentioned above, the legal understanding of a flash of the headlights is making your existence known...
the purpose for which you make yourself known can vary:
- hello, I am here, don't pull out you silly driver
- hello, I am here, I am pausing to let you out
both could apply - and a wrong reading of the purpose could cause an accident, but fortunately we are not binary people, we see and understand graduation in things, and a headlight flash sits alongside other clues, such as positioning of car / speed / aggresiveness / hand signals (polite or otherwise!) etc.
it is also common now to have a blip of the headlights as the equivalent of lifting your glass / touching your cap - it is an acknowledgement of the other person and their needs - so it could be used to let someone through - that is very different from a more sustained use of the headlights which is more of a warning 'I am here' / 'caution' type of message...
so I see nothing wrong with its use - as to the scenario above with the motorbikes, that is clearly bad driving on behalf of the car driver - there might be room to brake, but it isn't difficult to work out whether the bike is actually slowing down / leaving room... without headlight flashing, the driver makes a judgement as to whether there is room to move before hitting the bike, with it they have that same responsibility only there is now communication and understanding between the two people which makes it smoother - it doesn't at any point remove that responsibility... and you will always have bad drivers, so while I see the point being made, it is not headlight flashes which is the cause - it might be the excuse, but the issue is bad judgement on behalf of the driver
i drive on single track roads a lot up here in scotty land and if someone pulls in for me to pass i flash my hazards, 9 times out of ten i then get a wee flash of the headlights from the person I have just passed...almost like a 'you're welcome'. At night if someone pulls into a passing place for you, the locals will flash an indicator as thanks instead of blinding you with full beam.
I do the L-R-L indicator flick as a thank you and I do flash out truckers on M ways. This sometimes leads to a conversation of lights - I remember once I was driving a big old Merc van through France. I came up a sloping sliproad, foot on the boards, grinding up to all of 70kph into heavy traffic on the 2 lane road ahead and thinking "sh*t this is tight". A trucker saw me, flashed, pulled into Lane 2. I junped in, foot off the pedal, dropped back and flashed as soon as it was clear. The trucker was back in Lane 1 quicker than you can say "knife" and gave a L-R-L flash, to which I replied with a flash of headlamps. It was like a choreographed routine, it must be what truckers do every day and of course I was now in the gang.
Flashing likes unless to let someone know you are there is stupid and dangerous....period....
A couple of days ago whilst waiting turn to turn major to minor, in heavy traffic, a very "helpful" van driver approaching us stopped flashed his lights at my student, who "thought" he was being helpful and tried to turn right in front of the van.....lucky for him I was sat along side him and said "No" and braked stopping him as he didn't react quick enough......
There was a cycle lane on the near side of the van.....and a moped thought it would be a great idea to go through the traffic using it.......I had seen it....the driver had not.....the van driver did not look in his mirrors before inviting us to cross in front of him.....he even raised his hands in frustration that we had stopped.....as i pointed to his near side where about a couple of seconds later the "TOM" (t
t on motorbike) appeared
Several times over the last few evenings I have had me eye balls burnt by the idiots thinking it's polite to flash to say "Thanks" on giving way ........winter is coming.....who can justify that it is OK to do that?
If someone is going to "Hold Back" at a junction to give way, then check your mirrors first....how many times has someone "given way" to you when there has been nothing behind them?.......what's the point.....?
A couple of days ago whilst waiting turn to turn major to minor, in heavy traffic, a very "helpful" van driver approaching us stopped flashed his lights at my student, who "thought" he was being helpful and tried to turn right in front of the van.....lucky for him I was sat along side him and said "No" and braked stopping him as he didn't react quick enough......
There was a cycle lane on the near side of the van.....and a moped thought it would be a great idea to go through the traffic using it.......I had seen it....the driver had not.....the van driver did not look in his mirrors before inviting us to cross in front of him.....he even raised his hands in frustration that we had stopped.....as i pointed to his near side where about a couple of seconds later the "TOM" (t
t on motorbike) appeared Several times over the last few evenings I have had me eye balls burnt by the idiots thinking it's polite to flash to say "Thanks" on giving way ........winter is coming.....who can justify that it is OK to do that?
If someone is going to "Hold Back" at a junction to give way, then check your mirrors first....how many times has someone "given way" to you when there has been nothing behind them?.......what's the point.....?
watchnut said:
Several times over the last few evenings I have had me eye balls burnt by the idiots thinking it's polite to flash to say "Thanks" on giving way ........winter is coming.....who can justify that it is OK to do that?
?
Yep, indeed, that irritates me too. A mate summed it up thus, "It's like holding a door open for someone and finding that, instead of saying thank you, they just spit in your face." Seemed a good analogy to me.?
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