Rear fog lights are bad for safety
Discussion
akirk said:
the issue is driver attitude, not the lights
Agree. In the recent fog I have lost count of the drivers I have followed with the rear fog light left on especially after dark when it actually becomes a real distraction. Even after flashing the fog lights at them they obviously pay no attention and leave it on. It is sometimes tempting just to stick the full beams on and leave them on but I shouldnt stoop to their level I guess. I still dont understand how people are so quick to turn fog lights on even when not needed.
'Back in the day', when cars had terrible rear lighting, consisting of a dim, dirty single filament bulb in a thick glass housing, with a poor or even not actually present reflector, having a separate "High intensity" fog light made sense.
Fast forwards to 2015 and i can't think of a single occurrence where i've seen the fog light but not the tail lights. Modern cars have rows and rows of bright, well designed tail lighting, and now high level lights and brake lamps too, often LED driven, so they are reliable and very intense as std.
Frankly, imo, it's about time we dropped fog lamps as 1) totally un-necessary and 2) more likely to be incorrectly used anyway.........
Fast forwards to 2015 and i can't think of a single occurrence where i've seen the fog light but not the tail lights. Modern cars have rows and rows of bright, well designed tail lighting, and now high level lights and brake lamps too, often LED driven, so they are reliable and very intense as std.
Frankly, imo, it's about time we dropped fog lamps as 1) totally un-necessary and 2) more likely to be incorrectly used anyway.........
Max_Torque said:
'Back in the day', when cars had terrible rear lighting, consisting of a dim, dirty single filament bulb in a thick glass housing, with a poor or even not actually present reflector, having a separate "High intensity" fog light made sense.
Fast forwards to 2015 and i can't think of a single occurrence where i've seen the fog light but not the tail lights. Modern cars have rows and rows of bright, well designed tail lighting, and now high level lights and brake lamps too, often LED driven, so they are reliable and very intense as std.
Frankly, imo, it's about time we dropped fog lamps as 1) totally un-necessary and 2) more likely to be incorrectly used anyway.........
I think you've summed up what I said in many more words very succinctly. Fast forwards to 2015 and i can't think of a single occurrence where i've seen the fog light but not the tail lights. Modern cars have rows and rows of bright, well designed tail lighting, and now high level lights and brake lamps too, often LED driven, so they are reliable and very intense as std.
Frankly, imo, it's about time we dropped fog lamps as 1) totally un-necessary and 2) more likely to be incorrectly used anyway.........
Pete317 said:
What I don't understand is, given that there's almost never just one person with their rear foglights on but usually several, why they seemingly don't register that as they themselves are being dazzled by someone else's foglights, that they're doing the same to others?
Most people are inattentive and don't know what's good for them. The same reason as you see people with sat navs in the centre of their screen on day mode in the night. The same as pedestrians standing at the edge of a clear road after pressing the button on a crossing rather than looking at the traffic and using their own judgement to decide when to cross the road. Pete317 said:
What I don't understand is, given that there's almost never just one person with their rear foglights on but usually several, why they seemingly don't register that as they themselves are being dazzled by someone else's foglights, that they're doing the same to others?
This morning as I was making my way into the hell that is the Anthill (thankfully I only go very occasionally) there was a tiny touch of fog. The traffic snarled up as it does normally but worse due mostly I think to a car fire with low sun and some fog. Anyway, one muppet decided to turn his rear fog lights on while sat stationary right in front of me.The fog wasn't bad enough to need fog lights anyway but visibility was perfect for the all of about a metre between his car and mine yet he decided to put them on.
So I gave him front fogs and full beam.
He quickly turned it off again. The abuse of rear fogs really gets up my nose.
The number of idiots who switch them on when visibility is more than 100 yards is breath taking. I drive 80,000 miles a year and I can't recall the last time they were necessary.
And those people who deploy them in built up areas need to be nailed to the floor so they can't get near a vehicle.
The number of idiots who switch them on when visibility is more than 100 yards is breath taking. I drive 80,000 miles a year and I can't recall the last time they were necessary.
And those people who deploy them in built up areas need to be nailed to the floor so they can't get near a vehicle.
BertBert said:
I thought that a good attitude was a key part of advanced driving. Maybe I'm wrong. But the angst and outright anger displayed on this thread feels to me to be the antithesis of what advanced driving calls for. The hyperbole is astonishing.
Bert
I don't really see bad attitude on this thread.Bert
The thread is about whether rear foglights are bad for safety - and the replies people are giving here give reasons why they might well be.
davepoth said:
How would that mean switching on fog lights at night? Visibility isn't restricted just because it's dark. The rules of the road in the UK state that it's OK to turn on fog lights when visibility becomes restricted, and in my experience it's easier to see a car that has fog lights switched on in those conditions.
Rear fogs in spray is bad. You create glare and prevent people from seeing what's in front of you.In proper spray it's highly unlikely that someone will come up behind you at such a speed that they fail to slow and plow into you, but you will be reducing visibility by creating glare for everyone else.
heebeegeetee said:
davepoth said:
How would that mean switching on fog lights at night? Visibility isn't restricted just because it's dark. The rules of the road in the UK state that it's OK to turn on fog lights when visibility becomes restricted, and in my experience it's easier to see a car that has fog lights switched on in those conditions.
Rear fogs in spray is bad. You create glare and prevent people from seeing what's in front of you.In proper spray it's highly unlikely that someone will come up behind you at such a speed that they fail to slow and plow into you, but you will be reducing visibility by creating glare for everyone else.
It would be a massive improvement if the bloody things defaulted to off when you start the car and then had to be turned on if you want them. Rear screen heaters always seem to operate like this, why can't fog lights? That would at least mean all the idiots who turn them on because of a bit of mist don't end up leaving the bloody things on for the rest of the winter.
Pete317 said:
My simple rule - if you can see the taillights of cars ahead of you well enough then those behind you can see yours well enough.
And if you're being blinded by the foglights ahead of you then it's a safe bet that your foglights are blinding those behind you.
This is so true and something I preach!And if you're being blinded by the foglights ahead of you then it's a safe bet that your foglights are blinding those behind you.
Fog lights are a menace, the Police should do more to pull those that abuse them over and fine them. As people have said it seems to be the "go-to" and you cannot educate them otherwise.
There would be nothing stopping the car manufacturers from implementing that the fog lights turn off over 50mph, as quite frankly if you are able to drive along at 50mph it is clearly not pea-soup enough to warrant the fog lights on!
May be with the shakeup of the BBC charter the government could start advertising slightly patronising and condescending public information broadcasts again. It is a great way to educate those people that haven't read a highway code book for a long time rather than trying to compete with the likes of X-Factor which gains nothing for the license fee we all pay.
A program showing the effects of how little a motorbiker can see due to the beads of water on his visor refracting the light from the rear fog and pretty much blinding him and just suggesting that they treat the rear fog in the same way you do with the main beams might help? Oh and not put it on a 1 in the morning!!
In heysham, we can get really bad fog on the bypass as you approach the port, however people still hare down it. I will put my rear fogs on when no one is behind to make myself more visible, but will always turn them off when a car is following. Work more on the principle that if I can see them and they are not approaching at a silly speed, then I don't need them on.
Can't confirm their effectiveness but I have been overtaken at speed in thick fog and I do feel safer at night in fog on that road with them on.
Can't confirm their effectiveness but I have been overtaken at speed in thick fog and I do feel safer at night in fog on that road with them on.
I used my foglights for the first time in at least 5 years and 250,000miles the other day.
It was dark, it was very foggy (not merely misty), it was still (as in, no wind) and I was going past the local rugby club where 45 minutes earlier had been the town's firework display. I had to slow to walking pace. It was terrifying, I can tell you. The front fogs illuminated the curb for maybe a three or four metres ahead of my vehicle. The rear foglight I hope revealed my presence to anyone barrelling on as if blindfolded. Thankfully I was not on the M5 but that dreadful accident was the first thing I thought of.
Rear foglights used in the rain in the dark on the motorway seriously compound the difficulties of driving for all the reasons given already.
It was dark, it was very foggy (not merely misty), it was still (as in, no wind) and I was going past the local rugby club where 45 minutes earlier had been the town's firework display. I had to slow to walking pace. It was terrifying, I can tell you. The front fogs illuminated the curb for maybe a three or four metres ahead of my vehicle. The rear foglight I hope revealed my presence to anyone barrelling on as if blindfolded. Thankfully I was not on the M5 but that dreadful accident was the first thing I thought of.
Rear foglights used in the rain in the dark on the motorway seriously compound the difficulties of driving for all the reasons given already.
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