So...what exactly does IAM teach?
Discussion
Long time lurker etc., bit of a vent so apologies!
Followed a car last Saturday, early morning that's left me a bit puzzled....
First up, sat in the outside lane of the DC, doing 50ish, road was completely clear, conditions good. Proceeds to turn left at roundabout (still DC) without indicating, fair enough no one else about. Get to a set of lights, basically a fork with left filtering to motorway, right continues A road. Proceeds to sit at red light indicating right, when it's entirely obvious that's the only direction he can go. Fails to indicate at next roundabout, still in outside lane about 20mph below limit. At this point I noticed the IAM sticker on his back window (along with some other crap stickers)
So what had he been taught then? Use the wrong lane, inappropriate speed and inappropriate use of his indicators? Made me laugh anyway...
Followed a car last Saturday, early morning that's left me a bit puzzled....
First up, sat in the outside lane of the DC, doing 50ish, road was completely clear, conditions good. Proceeds to turn left at roundabout (still DC) without indicating, fair enough no one else about. Get to a set of lights, basically a fork with left filtering to motorway, right continues A road. Proceeds to sit at red light indicating right, when it's entirely obvious that's the only direction he can go. Fails to indicate at next roundabout, still in outside lane about 20mph below limit. At this point I noticed the IAM sticker on his back window (along with some other crap stickers)
So what had he been taught then? Use the wrong lane, inappropriate speed and inappropriate use of his indicators? Made me laugh anyway...
Institute of Anxious Motorists? He could have bought the car with the sticker in it.
My dear neighbour, bless her, has the IAM sticker, but drives with complete disregard for motorists, pedestrians and other obstructions.
She's also got a St Christopher medallion on the dashboard which presumably saves her from her numerous near-entanglements.
Lovely woman, though. If I'm going to be run-over by anyone, I hope it's her.
My dear neighbour, bless her, has the IAM sticker, but drives with complete disregard for motorists, pedestrians and other obstructions.
She's also got a St Christopher medallion on the dashboard which presumably saves her from her numerous near-entanglements.
Lovely woman, though. If I'm going to be run-over by anyone, I hope it's her.
The IAM stuff is based on police training. it helps drivers with some experience to drive tidily, to anticipate, to enjoy their vehicles and hence travel more rapidly in comfort. Yes, like all clubs it attracts bores and the sanctimonious brigade, but I don't think it merits knocking en masse. If posters are curious, why not try it?
james_gt3rs said:
Usually the IAM sticker is accompanied by pipe and slippers, box of tissues on the parcel shelf...
if James is devoted to stereotypes (and why not?) he needs to include for I.A.M. Cartoon a 1963 Rover P4 - lovely, actually - in 2 tone light green and mid green , oh, so subtle every provincial optician wanted one, some had, with Roverdrive. A gentleman's carriage with Kleenix for Men on rear shelf with a much more dangerous tightly furled Fulton umbrella and a copy of Ashley Courtenay,s "Let's halt awhile in Britain" Maybe a shooting stick and a copy of Country Life, too. Langdale Chase anybody? they do a good prawn cocktail and you can't but enjoy Hartley's bitter! The Good Lady could even have a double gin and it, while hubby talked to Colonel Scott- Newman about his Alvis Grey Lady. The Colonel would then emerge from the Panelled Hall and berate pubic schoolboys probably Giggleswicks who claimed their Cooper Ss could outrun the TC 21/100. " Dear boy, don't you know I'm an Advanced Motorist? have another Glenmorangie!Edited by Lester H on Sunday 13th December 23:38
Edited by Lester H on Monday 14th December 00:07
Love it, Lester H, and by the way I am a member of the IAM.
As was said earlier, if you are curious then give it a go. You'll be invited to a free drive out with an observer followed by a demo drive by most groups nationwide. If you haven't tried it don't knock it, you might just enjoy the experience.
As was said earlier, if you are curious then give it a go. You'll be invited to a free drive out with an observer followed by a demo drive by most groups nationwide. If you haven't tried it don't knock it, you might just enjoy the experience.
I also did it. What did I learn, well maybe not to drive like a t
t so much and smooth things out slightly. There is a lot of out of date stuff in there to be fair, like push pull steering and cockpit checks. It was alright and there was some pretty boring people and it gave me something to do on a Saturday afternoon. I gave the senior observer a high speed run in my Impreza Turbo after my final pre test assessment and he was very encouraging. Like most things, you get out of it what you put in.
t so much and smooth things out slightly. There is a lot of out of date stuff in there to be fair, like push pull steering and cockpit checks. It was alright and there was some pretty boring people and it gave me something to do on a Saturday afternoon. I gave the senior observer a high speed run in my Impreza Turbo after my final pre test assessment and he was very encouraging. Like most things, you get out of it what you put in. BertBert said:
Worth giving it a go. I absolutely hated it 
Yes I actually did.
Bert
What did you hate, just about everything, your observer, the suggestions received or maybe you thought that the IAM driving "style" was not for you. Please let us have a little more so that we may understand better.Yes I actually did.
Bert
titian said:
Love it, Lester H, and by the way I am a member of the IAM.
As was said earlier, if you are curious then give it a go. You'll be invited to a free drive out with an observer followed by a demo drive by most groups nationwide. If you haven't tried it don't knock it, you might just enjoy the experience.
Thanks. I too did IAM, liked it, helped local group for a bit, then it faded into the background. I took some good lessons from it and promptly forgot things like steering wheel shuffling.As was said earlier, if you are curious then give it a go. You'll be invited to a free drive out with an observer followed by a demo drive by most groups nationwide. If you haven't tried it don't knock it, you might just enjoy the experience.
titian said:
BertBert said:
Worth giving it a go. I absolutely hated it
Yes I actually did.
Bert
What did you hate, just about everything, your observer, the suggestions received or maybe you thought that the IAM driving "style" was not for you. Please let us have a little more so that we may understand better.Yes I actually did.
Bert
Maybe he expected to be told he was God's gift to motoring and resented being told where he could improve his driving.
Lester H said:
Thanks. I too did IAM, liked it, helped local group for a bit, then it faded into the background. I took some good lessons from it and promptly forgot things like steering wheel shuffling.
My uncle is an observer in Worcester and it's something I've been considering having a go at for a while, but somehow haven't got round to yet. Apparently the course is set to be modified next year with a more modern and flexible outlook and less focus on things like steering wheel shuffling.Interesting subject.
I have always loved cars and driving. Read up on both cars and how to drive them.
Always wanted the IAM badge of honour. Went along to my local club and they were all Octogenerians. Nothing wrong with that. Was taken out by one in the first instance, impressed by good driving and rapid progress.
To cut a long story short I was told I'd pass first time. So pleased with that but certainly no challenge if you are an enthusiast. So the IAM seem to be aimed more at the the nervous and the clumsy.
There are others which I think are more intense, such as ROSPA and bespoke courses run by ex Police etc.
Anyhow, I didn't really learn anything.
I have always loved cars and driving. Read up on both cars and how to drive them.
Always wanted the IAM badge of honour. Went along to my local club and they were all Octogenerians. Nothing wrong with that. Was taken out by one in the first instance, impressed by good driving and rapid progress.
To cut a long story short I was told I'd pass first time. So pleased with that but certainly no challenge if you are an enthusiast. So the IAM seem to be aimed more at the the nervous and the clumsy.
There are others which I think are more intense, such as ROSPA and bespoke courses run by ex Police etc.
Anyhow, I didn't really learn anything.
Passed my IAM test years ago and have been a member ever since and remember the instructor saying that it's all about making efficient progress. That means reading the road, always being ready for everything, always being in the correct gear and reducing as many delays as possible.
Oh and I still do push and pull steering as it ensures your hands are always in the best place on the wheel at any time and I can guarantee it does not inhibit 'efficient' driving!
Oh and I still do push and pull steering as it ensures your hands are always in the best place on the wheel at any time and I can guarantee it does not inhibit 'efficient' driving!
Uncle John said:
Interesting subject.
I have always loved cars and driving. Read up on both cars and how to drive them.
Always wanted the IAM badge of honour. Went along to my local club and they were all Octogenerians. Nothing wrong with that. Was taken out by one in the first instance, impressed by good driving and rapid progress.
To cut a long story short I was told I'd pass first time. So pleased with that but certainly no challenge if you are an enthusiast. So the IAM seem to be aimed more at the the nervous and the clumsy.
There are others which I think are more intense, such as ROSPA and bespoke courses run by ex Police etc.
Anyhow, I didn't really learn anything.
They do seem to be more senior people, certainly on the events and day trips, but I suppose only retired people have the time to involve themselves with these organisations. It's the same with many non driving related groups I've been involved with.I have always loved cars and driving. Read up on both cars and how to drive them.
Always wanted the IAM badge of honour. Went along to my local club and they were all Octogenerians. Nothing wrong with that. Was taken out by one in the first instance, impressed by good driving and rapid progress.
To cut a long story short I was told I'd pass first time. So pleased with that but certainly no challenge if you are an enthusiast. So the IAM seem to be aimed more at the the nervous and the clumsy.
There are others which I think are more intense, such as ROSPA and bespoke courses run by ex Police etc.
Anyhow, I didn't really learn anything.
How did you know?
Anyway, sorry not to reply for a while, but here we are, so to explain.
By way of background, I've not done any advanced driving qualifications, but am very familiar with all things Roadcraft. I spent many happy years with two of my kids at the U17CC helping them to learn the "advanced" way and of course learning it myself - and then helping out with the instruction. So I have been through the WTF is this about phase! Also, although being a 50ish bigotted know it all, I also think my attitude to learning is ok. Generally my first reaction to stuff going wrong on the road is what could I learn, what could I do to avoid that again.
So me and my early 20's daughter (grad of said U17CC and very aware of Roadcraft) went along to the local group to give it a go. She only went once as the guy she went out with was so totally condescending as to not be believed.
I gave it a couple of goes, but the utter superiority of the observers was so painful. For example, what I can only describe as a lecture about not accelerating coming out of roundabouts until you were in a straight line. Not a discussion on the principles, not a reasoned discourse, a died in the wool diatribe with all of that IAM "I am right you are wrong" ethos. I wasn't even arguing about it. Just being put in my place whatever I thought - which I wasn't even expressing! Now lest you get the wrong idea, I hadn't even wellied it out of the roundabout. Just gently increasing speed in the dry. Then, there's all that trite tosh. If it rhymes, it must be right. Gears are for going etc. But again trotted out in that all too familiar, condescending listen to me son, as if it's Einseinian theory.
And finally, the boss lady. FFS how painful was that drive! A very dull, damp, overcast, horrid Sunday morning. Country ish straight road out the back of Epsom. Came across a cyclist. Not lit up, no hi-viz, dark clothes. Not impossible to see, but not all that easy. There was a car 100yds behind, so I indicated before I pulled out to make it clear there was something to overtake. But apparently that was wrong. No ifs, just wrong. No debate, just wrong. And then, even in idle chat it went on. I recounted a racey car I owned before and how I'd got bored with the boy racers trying to have a go and a couple of road rage incidents that had occurred, but apparently they hadn't, I was wrong. How could I be wrong and she right about incidents that happened to me?? And then finally in the parked up debrief, apparently my driving was aggressive! On the basis that I was on my utter-most driving miss daisy behaviour, to describe it as aggressive was confusing to say the least. So you definitely think I'm really a middle aged bigot who can't stand criticism. And maybe I am, but the beauty of that final episode was we had a trainee observer in the back who piped up that he disagreed that my driving was aggressive! Then they had a good old debate.
So that's about it. Apart from the final nail. Now I cocked up, I got my diary wrong, booked a session, but I was away on business when I should have been there. Got a call on the moby, very early doors in the US. Apologised, all my fault. Booked another session when I got back, turned up to be told there wasn't one for me as I'd missed one! So some kind of punishment!!
So that's it. All that's bad about the institutionalized, up their own arses, IAM world. Never gonna work with a bigoted 50 year old
You did ask!!
Bert
Maybe he expected to be told he was God's gift to motoring and resented being told where he could improve his driving.
Anyway, sorry not to reply for a while, but here we are, so to explain.
By way of background, I've not done any advanced driving qualifications, but am very familiar with all things Roadcraft. I spent many happy years with two of my kids at the U17CC helping them to learn the "advanced" way and of course learning it myself - and then helping out with the instruction. So I have been through the WTF is this about phase! Also, although being a 50ish bigotted know it all, I also think my attitude to learning is ok. Generally my first reaction to stuff going wrong on the road is what could I learn, what could I do to avoid that again.
So me and my early 20's daughter (grad of said U17CC and very aware of Roadcraft) went along to the local group to give it a go. She only went once as the guy she went out with was so totally condescending as to not be believed.
I gave it a couple of goes, but the utter superiority of the observers was so painful. For example, what I can only describe as a lecture about not accelerating coming out of roundabouts until you were in a straight line. Not a discussion on the principles, not a reasoned discourse, a died in the wool diatribe with all of that IAM "I am right you are wrong" ethos. I wasn't even arguing about it. Just being put in my place whatever I thought - which I wasn't even expressing! Now lest you get the wrong idea, I hadn't even wellied it out of the roundabout. Just gently increasing speed in the dry. Then, there's all that trite tosh. If it rhymes, it must be right. Gears are for going etc. But again trotted out in that all too familiar, condescending listen to me son, as if it's Einseinian theory.
And finally, the boss lady. FFS how painful was that drive! A very dull, damp, overcast, horrid Sunday morning. Country ish straight road out the back of Epsom. Came across a cyclist. Not lit up, no hi-viz, dark clothes. Not impossible to see, but not all that easy. There was a car 100yds behind, so I indicated before I pulled out to make it clear there was something to overtake. But apparently that was wrong. No ifs, just wrong. No debate, just wrong. And then, even in idle chat it went on. I recounted a racey car I owned before and how I'd got bored with the boy racers trying to have a go and a couple of road rage incidents that had occurred, but apparently they hadn't, I was wrong. How could I be wrong and she right about incidents that happened to me?? And then finally in the parked up debrief, apparently my driving was aggressive! On the basis that I was on my utter-most driving miss daisy behaviour, to describe it as aggressive was confusing to say the least. So you definitely think I'm really a middle aged bigot who can't stand criticism. And maybe I am, but the beauty of that final episode was we had a trainee observer in the back who piped up that he disagreed that my driving was aggressive! Then they had a good old debate.
So that's about it. Apart from the final nail. Now I cocked up, I got my diary wrong, booked a session, but I was away on business when I should have been there. Got a call on the moby, very early doors in the US. Apologised, all my fault. Booked another session when I got back, turned up to be told there wasn't one for me as I'd missed one! So some kind of punishment!!
So that's it. All that's bad about the institutionalized, up their own arses, IAM world. Never gonna work with a bigoted 50 year old
You did ask!!
Bert
Blakewater said:
titian said:
BertBert said:
Worth giving it a go. I absolutely hated it
Yes I actually did.
Bert
What did you hate, just about everything, your observer, the suggestions received or maybe you thought that the IAM driving "style" was not for you. Please let us have a little more so that we may understand better.Yes I actually did.
Bert
Maybe he expected to be told he was God's gift to motoring and resented being told where he could improve his driving.
BertBert said:
How did you know?
Anyway, sorry not to reply for a while, but here we are, so to explain.
Understandable that you were put off. However, the only take-away from your experience is that you were unlucky. IAM Observers (and Rospa Tutors) vary greatly - as indeed do the examiners. If you were in our area I think you would have been allocated someone much more in tune with you.Anyway, sorry not to reply for a while, but here we are, so to explain.
As a matter of interest, have you tried any professional road driving tuition? e.g.
http://www.high-performance-course.com/
(Incidentally, the full course syllabus which is available from that site is quite a document).
Thanks BertBert for taking the time to reply.
I understand, observers like those you were saddled with ought not to be part of what the IAM is all about these days. We are looking to engender a customer focused experience, coaching without dogma for goodness sake you are supposed to enjoy the learning experience. IAM observers will all need to submit themselves to an IMI (motoring qualification body)examination in the next year or so which is intended to raise standards and re-educate or remove those who don't conform.
Good work with the U17CC BertBert.
If you do decide to try the IAM again take a look at the Masters qualification, it may just suit you.
I understand, observers like those you were saddled with ought not to be part of what the IAM is all about these days. We are looking to engender a customer focused experience, coaching without dogma for goodness sake you are supposed to enjoy the learning experience. IAM observers will all need to submit themselves to an IMI (motoring qualification body)examination in the next year or so which is intended to raise standards and re-educate or remove those who don't conform.
Good work with the U17CC BertBert.
If you do decide to try the IAM again take a look at the Masters qualification, it may just suit you.
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