Heel/Toe

[mybrainhurts]

HustleRussell said:

mybrainhurts said:

FFS, hard on the brakes and rev hard.

Or gentle braking and a gentle blip.

How hard can it be?

Like I said, it can be very difficult or impossible depending on the car.

It's second nature to me now, I use it on the road and on the track.

However it can be very difficult in newer cars with the pedals miles apart, over-assisted brakes, mapped-in throttle delay and zero throttle response. And it you're unfortunate enough to own a car with this safety feature, you may find that the car is closing the throttle for you whenever you touch the brake pedal.

Ah, sorry, thought we were talking real cars, not nannywagons...

HustleRussell said:

Entirely unnecessary "FFS" by the way.

FFS...

[ohtari]

Practice, it's just practice. Try it in as many cars as possible as well, as you can get stuck on one particular movement instead of feeling the peddles. It's as much feel as it is muscle memory imo. Remember when you started to learn to drive, and you stalled all the time with your father in the passenger seat scolding you for not "feeling" the clutch? Same thing.

[mybrainhurts]

ohtari said:

Practice, it's just practice. Try it in as many cars as possible as well, as you can get stuck on one particular movement instead of feeling the peddles. It's as much feel as it is muscle memory imo. Remember when you started to learn to drive, and you stalled all the time with your father in the passenger seat scolding you for not "feeling" the clutch? Same thing.

That's right...same way he scolded you for spelling pedals as well...

[MC Bodge]

HustleRussell said:

In most modern cars it's pretty difficult. In some it's impossible.

So I've been told. Although I have still managed it in every rental car I've had....

Apparently modern cars are impossible to work on at home too.

[HustleRussell]

mybrainhurts said:

Ah, sorry, thought we were talking real cars, not nannywagons...

What gave you that impression? The OP didn't specify. BMW Mini in profile?

MC Bodge said:

So I've been told. Although I have still managed it in every rental car I've had....

Apparently modern cars are impossible to work on at home too.

Doesn't really help the OP.

[MC Bodge]

Practice at a standstill on the driveway first, then on a car park, then on a quiet road.

[HustleRussell]

My main suggestion is to ensure you're wearing your seatbelt!

[BertBert]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Interestingly, having taught quite a few kids at the U17CC to get it right, I actually preferred to tell them to time the blip with the gear leaver going through the gate. It seemed more natural for them. YMMV.
Bert

[RobM77]

BertBert said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Interestingly, having taught quite a few kids at the U17CC to get it right, I actually preferred to tell them to time the blip with the gear leaver going through the gate. It seemed more natural for them. YMMV.
Bert

Plus the longer you leave it, the harder it gets. I second the advice on blipping without the brake at first though, that's probably a great way to learn and if you never get H&T, then at least you can rev match.

[xjay1337]

mybrainhurts said:

FFS, hard on the brakes and rev hard.

Or gentle braking and a gentle blip.

How hard can it be?

Its easy if you know how....Nothing like an elitist outlook

[MC Bodge]

xjay1337 said:

Its easy if you know how....Nothing like an elitist outlook

It is easy if you try it and keep on practicing -like most things. It doesn't take a special talent. The information is out there.

...nothing like a pragmatic outlook

[HustleRussell]

On the other hand it can be very difficult or impossible in some cars.

Nothing like a realistic outlook...

[blueg33]

With practice all the time it becomes the usual way to change gear.

I drove Mrs b's auto Outback today and found myself heel and toeing

[HustleRussell]

Driving a £250 disposable Citroen Saxo 1.0 currently, the brakes are unassisted and the exhaust is blowing slightly so H & T is a joy

[MC Bodge]

HustleRussell said:

On the other hand it can be very difficult or impossible in some cars.

Nothing like a realistic outlook...

People say this, but what 3 pedal manual cars are actually impossible to do it in?

And don't say VAG ones, because it isn't true.

[HustleRussell]

I don't think I've ever driven a car in which it is impossible, but there must be plenty- even if the throttle deactivation thing is a myth.

[RobM77]

It's interesting to hear that about VAG, because everyone seems to say it, but when I had an A4 courtesy car a while ago I tested it by driving along with a foot on the brake and a foot on the throttle for a minute or two, and it never cut the power once, not even a little bit . Most people on PH at the time were telling me I was lying that my BMW didn't do it. I've actually yet to experience throttle cut in any car.

Regarding pedal positioning and other things, for me an essential criteria of any car that I buy is that I have to be able to heel and toe in it - it's part of my driving and I couldn't bear not to do it. For me an un-rev matched gear change is like fingernail on a blackboard is for most people, and coming off the brake to rev match gets very tiresome after a while. My other essential criteria for a car are rear drive and a manual gearbox - life's too short for FWD or autos! yuk.

[robinessex]

I learnt to drive back in the 1960's. Cars were more basic then, but as I was already a motorcyclist, I wanted to carry over the H&T bit. My first car was a MK1 Cortina GT, the next a MK1 Lotus Cortina, and the a Lotus Europa TC. These cars as far as I remember, had a much quicker throttle response than modern cars, especially the Lotus Europe after it had a lighter flywheel fitted, and a rather special hydraulic throttle. And that car NEEDED you to H&T, as the gearbox was awful. I did have to bend the pedals a bit to get them in the correct position though. The engine now blipped almost instantly. It wasn't long before I was blipping my away around the country lanes, hard on the brakes dropping a few gears before taking the bends. I’ve never ever since had a car that was such a delight to drive. Many seem to have a very lethargic throttle response. Just try blipping one while stationary. Not good. I believe the McLaren F1 had one of the fastedst throttle responses of any car.

[RobM77]

robinessex said:

I believe the McLaren F1 had one of the fastedst throttle responses of any car.

So fast in fact they put a spring in the throttle linkage to calm it down Sounds awful to me - it's the only thing about my dream car I'm not so sure about, although obviously I've yet to drive one to see what it's like!

[davepoth]

robinessex said:

Just try blipping one while stationary. Not good.

It's one of the things that's keeping me in my 13 year old shed - a normally aspirated engine and a decent throttle response, especially once it's on cam.