Tell me like it is!

[Z.B]

I'm surprised a blue light driver wouldn't have a more highly developed lizard sense in this kind of scenario.

In my experience when you 'hope' someone isn't going to pull out on you, and you think they 'should' have seen you, there's at least a 50/50 chance they will do it anyway.

Personally I think the speed differential was too high for the situation. A gentle speed reduction a few seconds earlier to say 60mph would have turned an alarming moment into a mere inconvenience.

I don't believe this would encourage other vehicles to pull out. It's dark and many drivers are poor at judging closing speed, especially to the rear (as the video demonstrates!). They wouldn't even notice.


Any time you are 'hoping' for things to go one way you should be planning for the opposite.

[vonhosen]

1) The main beam (if it is to be used at all) would have been much better a) earlier (to give them time to both see you & decide on action) & b) for longer (so that they would be under no apprehension that it was an invitation to pull out).
Note: Main beam is a useful tool, but can easily be misused/interpreted so it's essential that timing (when put on & length on) are matched with appropriate speed differential on approach.

2) Cruise control cancel on approach would have also helped.

3) In the circumstances of such a slow vehicle I personally would have ditched thought of headlamp flash/cruise control & just lost speed to allow for the inevitable that did happen.

Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 9th February 19:26

[r129sl]

RobM77 said:

JumboBeef said:

PS: 70 is normally completely safe for this road. It has been drive a lot quicker than that too, completely safely. The point here is if staying at 70, dropping "a bit" or braking to match the crane's speed was the safest option.

I've just watched this again and I think the main point worth making is that the 1 series stays indicating throughout and actually crosses the lane markings 27 seconds into the clip, whereas it doesn't appear that you start braking properly until about 29.5/30 seconds. Even if we ignore his indication, that's a huge reaction time to the 1 series changing lanes and that has a number of explanations:

a) The video isn't putting across your speed and braking accurately due to it being dark, the wide angle lens etc.

b) Your reaction times are very slow.

c) You were on cruise and it took that time to get your foot onto the brake.

d) You were trying to scare the guy and/or make a point.

I'm not going to be presumptuous by saying which of the above occurred, but those are the possibilities as far as I see it. We can logically remove some of the above though - you say that you were covering the brake, so that removes c) and it also removes most of the reasons behind b) too. We're then left with a and d. I think some posters are assuming d, thus their reaction above. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Given the long "punishment" main beams, it can only really be (d).

[RobM77]

Z.B said:

I'm surprised a blue light driver wouldn't have a more highly developed lizard sense in this kind of scenario.

In my experience when you 'hope' someone isn't going to pull out on you, and you think they 'should' have seen you, there's at least a 50/50 chance they will do it anyway.

Personally I think the speed differential was too high for the situation. A gentle speed reduction a few seconds earlier to say 60mph would have turned an alarming moment into a mere inconvenience.

I don't believe this would encourage other vehicles to pull out. It's dark and many drivers are poor at judging closing speed, especially to the rear (as the video demonstrates!). They wouldn't even notice.


Any time you are 'hoping' for things to go one way you should be planning for the opposite.

To be honest I'm very surprised that the OP is trained in high speed driving. I can't see how this was an 'alarming' situation - the 1 series was indicating, so what did the OP expect to happen? Even if he or she wasn't indicating, a car behind a lorry is always a suspicious event that is likely to result in the car pulling out. Car + lorry = cover the brake. Taking three seconds to react? Very worrying. Driving quickly safely requires good skills of prediction and a good safety bubble around you - neither of which are happening in this video.

I'll sign off with something I say a lot: nobody ever crashes into something they expected to be there; therefore: observation, planning, forethought and prediction are the most important skills of safe driving. The question "what's going to happen next?" should be constantly asked of oneself and more often than not if we have an incident like the OP's, it's because we failed to ask that question of ourselves.

[ORD]

Having watched the video again, my best guess is that OP knew exactly what was going to happen but wanted to make some kind of point, hence the bizarrely late braking. On another day, the guy making a point misjudges the speeds slightly and rear-ends the BMW.

[JumboBeef]

Thanks for the replies. They range from you did nothing wrong to terrible driving

I think the thing to remember here is the wide angle lens make everything look so much further away than it actually was, and gives a false impression of lots of space and lots of time to doing things.

Again people are saying I should have slowed down but if I'd slowed a bit, it would have made it more likely for him to pull out, and maybe the van as well, which I personally think may have increased uncertainty about what they should do, thus increasing the risk of a collision.

Those who say I should have slowed completely to let that car out, you do know that would have meant very heavy braking....? And if the car was waiting for me to pass, he'd have to brake as well....?

Love the criticism of my blue light driving based on 60 seconds of driving in an almost straight line I had several blue light drives yesterday and, amazingly, managed not to kill anyone

The end of the day, I was ready for the car to pull out, I avoided an accident. In hindsight I think I got it right, maybe shouldn't have flashed him, but that's a small sin really.

Edited by JumboBeef on Friday 12th February 17:31

[ORD]

So you posted the clip for comments yet are ignoring the fact that every sentient poster thinks your driving was poor? What was the point? You aren't actually interested in improving. You managed to end up almost rear-ending someone when there was ample opportunity to avoid any kind of incident. If you think that was optimal, you need to take a breath.

[ORD]

So you posted the clip for comments yet are ignoring the fact that every sentient poster thinks your driving was poor? What was the point? You aren't actually interested in improving. You managed to end up almost rear-ending someone when there was ample opportunity to avoid any kind of incident. If you think that was optimal, you need to take a breath.

[Lowtimer]

JumboBeef said:

Those who say I should have slowed completely to let that car out, you do know that would have meant very heavy braking....? And if the car was waiting for me to pass, he'd have to brake as well....?

You DID end up doing heavy braking. It was almost inevitable given your decision to stay on cruise when encountering an obstacle at a junction. The only question was whether to do it earlier and more at your own volition.

Personally I'd have been cancelling cruise and lifting off down to about 60 from the inside lane as soon as I saw the flashing obstacle, not at that point knowing much about the obstacle (e.g. how many lanes was it occupying) and knowing that there was a junction coming up so the situation could change rapidly.

This was a situation where your first priority should be to create as much free space as possible, not plan to carry on through without adjusting your speed.

Then everyone would have had more time and space, and you'd have had a better chance of not needing heavy braking at a point where you were close to other vehicles.

[JumboBeef]

Yep, as I say, thanks for the comments which range from good to bad.

And as I said, now with hindsight, I feel handled it fine (apart from the flash). Again people are missing the fact that if I slowed it might have well encouraged the car out when he was going to stay.

So, cheers for the input, it has helped clarify one thing: videos from dash cams can be very misleading with regard to speed and distance.

[vonhosen]

JumboBeef said:

Again people are missing the fact that if I slowed it might have well encouraged the car out when he was going to stay.

Then all you would have ended up with is more space & time than you did end up with, that wouldn't have been a worse deal than you ended up with.
If you wanted to discourage them from pulling out without increasing risk to yourself you needed an alternative strategy.

[IT1GTR]

JumboBeef said:

Thanks for the replies. They range from you did nothing wrong to terrible driving

I think the thing to remember here is the wide angle lens make everything look so much further away than it actually was, and gives a false impression of lots of space and lots of time to doing things.

Again people are saying I should have slowed down but if I'd slowed a bit, it would have made it more likely for him to pull out, and maybe the van as well, which I personally think may have increased uncertainty about what they should do, thus increasing the risk of a collision..

So what if he pulled out, if you had slowed, you would have had a lot more time to react. You could have easily given yourself the space you needed with a bit of acceleration sense. Much better IMO to be active and control the situation rather than just let it unfold, don't just plan your driving, but plan the others cars also. Give the other car the time to do what he needs, then unobtrusively glide past. You could have matched your speed so that you were coming up on him just as he had finished his overtake of the slow mover.

When I trained, I got taught that I should be able to make maximum progress as unobtrusively as possible, you should be able to plot all of the paths / speeds of those around you and pick the most efficient path through without causing them to change speed or direction,

JumboBeef said:

Those who say I should have slowed completely to let that car out, you do know that would have meant very heavy braking....? And if the car was waiting for me to pass, he'd have to brake as well....?.

I'm saying your foot should have been off the gas at 8 seconds into the video. You ended up with very heavy braking as it was. By lifting off much sooner , your progress would have been safer, smoother and quicker.

JumboBeef said:

The end of the day, I was ready for the car to pull out, I avoided an accident. In hindsight I think I got it right, maybe shouldn't have flashed him, but that's a small sin really.

Honestly though, you weren't ready. If you were ready, you wouldn't have ended up his ass with the counterproductive main beam flash.

Anyway, don't want to sound like I'm spoiling for an argument as I'm not, just feel there is a bit of defensiveness/denial creeping in here. This stuff is always a learning experience and most people don't have the guts to post clips to be dissected by all here, so fair play.

[Mandalore]

JumboBeef said:

Yep, as I say, thanks for the comments which range from good to bad.

And as I said, now with hindsight, I feel handled it fine (apart from the flash). Again people are missing the fact that if I slowed it might have well encouraged the car out when he was going to stay.

So, cheers for the input, it has helped clarify one thing: videos from dash cams can be very misleading with regard to speed and distance.

I'm just surprised just how bass someeople driving must be to defend the BMW driver.
One can only assume they feels a kinship with his poor driving??

[rambo19]

IMO, bmw driver was wrong.
Did I know he was going to pull out?-yes, but that does not make it right.

BMW driver is a member of the 'indicate and go' brigade.
The main reason I got a dashcam is because of sh*t like this.

[vonhosen]

Mandalore said:

JumboBeef said:

Yep, as I say, thanks for the comments which range from good to bad.

And as I said, now with hindsight, I feel handled it fine (apart from the flash). Again people are missing the fact that if I slowed it might have well encouraged the car out when he was going to stay.

So, cheers for the input, it has helped clarify one thing: videos from dash cams can be very misleading with regard to speed and distance.

I'm just surprised just how bass someeople driving must be to defend the BMW driver.
One can only assume they feels a kinship with his poor driving??

it's not that people are defending the BMW driver, the BMW driver didn't ask for a critique on what he could or perhaps should have done differently.
The OP did.

[RobM77]

rambo19 said:

IMO, bmw driver was wrong.
Did I know he was going to pull out?-yes, but that does not make it right.

BMW driver is a member of the 'indicate and go' brigade.
The main reason I got a dashcam is because of sh*t like this.

Yes, he was in the wrong, but just because you're in the right doesn't give you an excuse to go barrelling into a potential accident at high speed, just to prove a point! People make mistakes and some people are arrogant crazy selfish idiots, but it's our job as good drivers to take it on the chin, keep our distance and help keep all parties as safe as possible. He may have just been a bad driver - we should give people like that space and time, not aggression.

ETA: 'm well aware of "indicate and go" people, but personally I think another group is far worse: those who deliberately fail to react when something dangerous happens, almost revelling in the fact they've been cut up and have an opportunity to assert their righteousness over someone by using lights, horn or scare tactics. That sort of behaviour is childish, arrogant and dangerous.

If you'd backed off a bit initially, then yes, you're correct: the likelihood of the BMW pulling out would have been greater, but in all potential outcomes you'd have had more options and more safety, and that's what it's all about - keeping safe. You'd have perhaps arrived 20 seconds later at your destination by taking this safer approach.

Edited by RobM77 on Monday 15th February 16:29

[WilliamWoollard]

Anyone with more than 10 minutes driving experience could see that situation developing well before you appeared to slow down. Easing off earlier would have prevented any drama. What would your instructor have been saying to you if that situation was developing on your training?

You got lucky regarding the headlight flash 1, that the BMW driver wasn't a complete moron who brake tested you. 2, the van driver didn't interpret your headlight flash as letting him out.

Just ease back earlier next time, everyone could have done their thing and they would probably be out of your way by the time you were past the crane, thus enabling you to maintain more speed through the other side.

[woodyTVR]

I've got to admit I'm genuinely shocked that a Blue light driver doesn't see this situation the same as everyone else. As I said before you should have controlled the situation and let everyone do their thing - they were always going to anyway.

Out of curiosity what's the idea with the dashcam, do you find yourself coming up against these sorts of drivers a lot? I'd suggest spinning the camera around ;-)