Lane selection at this roundabout

[skahigh]

This is really doing my head in now, every morning I come around this roundabout in Cardiff approaching from point A on the map below and leaving at point B. I am always in the far right lane indicating right and switching to a left indication when about level (or ever-so-slightly after) with the exit prior to the one I want to take. Every day without fail someone takes up position in the lane to my left and comes all the way around the roundabout with me either taking the same exit as me or one further around the roundabout.

As I'm on the motorbike this makes me a little vulnerable when trying to move across to the outside lane and leave the roundabout and it's extremely frustrating.

Is it me? Am I in the wrong? If not, why does everybody take up the wrong lane here? It's not that hard to understand is it???

Map of the roundabout:



Streetview of the entrance to the roundabout:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5045361,-3.19921...

Edited by skahigh on Wednesday 2nd March 12:17

Edited by skahigh on Wednesday 2nd March 12:22

[Reg Local]

When you say...

skahigh said:

switching to a left indication when about level (or ever-so-slightly after) with the exit prior to the one I want to take.

Do you mean point "C" or point "D" below?

[vanordinaire]

You're definitely in the right unless road markings say otherwise. Just keep doing it right but keep an eye out for people who are doing it wrong (applies to most driving).

I have a similar situation regularly when leaving the Edinburgh bypass to travel South on the A72. You have to be on the right lane of the slip road then the right lane of the first roundabout but then you have the length of the flyover to change to the left lane to make the exit for the A72 at the next roundabout. The number of times I have been blocked from changing to the correct lane by a 'lane hogger' is ridiculous.

[TooMany2cvs]

skahigh said:

Every day without fail someone takes up position in the lane to my left and comes all the way around the roundabout with me either taking the same exit as me or one further around the roundabout.

There's a motorbike-length gap in front of them, I take it? Make sure you're next to that gap, not next to the car, and accelerate into the gap and down your exit.

If you're in L3 at the entrance (with the blue-grey Meriva(?)) in that streetview link, L2 round the roundabout until Reg's point C, then ideally move into the gap that's been created by somebody heading east on the A48 slip, otherwise into an empty space, then you're doing the right thing.

Looking at that A48E exit, it's only one lane off - so if you're finding people continually blocking you from that exit through and past the one you want, it might be wise to move left just after the A470N exit - or even join in L1 - since nobody can chop across from L2 onto the A48.

Sometimes, the practicality and reality of dealing with other muppets wins out over "correctness"...

[skahigh]

Reg Local said:

Do you mean point "C" or point "D" below?

C

[Reg Local]

skahigh said:

C

So, presumably it's vehicles leaving the southbound A470 & joining the roundabout who are moving up your nearside?

You're not really doing much wrong to be honest, but if you use hand signals and positioning to make your intentions as clear as possible, you may see an improvement.

Stick a left signal on at "C" and move towards the left-hand side of your lane at the same time. Give a left hand signal as well - sometimes bike indicators aren't very clear.

Be positive with these movements, but don't move out of your lane into the nearside lane until you're happy with the gap.

[skahigh]

TooMany2cvs said:

There's a motorbike-length gap in front of them, I take it? Make sure you're next to that gap, not next to the car, and accelerate into the gap and down your exit.

Oh I do but, turning right and looking over your left shoulder almost 180 degrees behind you (due to the bend) to check it's safe in the dark and wet with raindrops all over your visor isn't the most pleasant of experiences and does make you feel vulnerable.

Thanks for the validation chaps, I will continue as I am doing.

It seems to me that the roundabout is quite clearly marked, the only real problem with the markings in my view is that they don't lead you off at each exit in turn.

[skahigh]

Reg Local said:

So, presumably it's vehicles leaving the southbound A470 & joining the roundabout who are moving up your nearside?

You mean those leaving the A470 and joining the roundabout at D?

If so, no, there are three lanes of traffic there and they are always pushing out to try and get on to the roundabout (often not noticing motorcycles coming around the roundabout with indicators on), they are just an extra hazard to watch out for.

It's traffic joining the roundabout at the same time as me from the North/East bound A470 at point A that are the problem.

[Reg Local]

skahigh said:

Reg Local said:

So, presumably it's vehicles leaving the southbound A470 & joining the roundabout who are moving up your nearside?

You mean those leaving the A470 and joining the roundabout at D?

If so, no, there are three lanes of traffic there and they are always pushing out to try and get on to the roundabout (often not noticing motorcycles coming around the roundabout with indicators on), they are just an extra hazard to watch out for.

It's traffic joining the roundabout at the same time as me from the North/East bound A470 at point A that are the problem.

No - I meant the traffic leaving the southbound A470 & joining the roundabout between "A" and "C".

But if it's the traffic joining with you and then turning right from the left lane, I'm afraid there's no accounting for idiocy - the lane markings seem perfectly clear and they're in the wrong. It's not as easy to bully your way into a gap on a bike either - just use your agility & make them have it!

[skahigh]

Reg Local said:

No - I meant the traffic leaving the southbound A470 & joining the roundabout between "A" and "C".

Whoops, mixed up my own roads.

Those joining from the A470 can be a problem if they pull out inappropriately but that doesn't usually happen as there is two vehicles coming towards them around the roundabout.

[DocSteve]

Actually, I think the correct procedure here is far from certain. This is a situation where the road markings and the HWC roundabout procedure lead to ambiguity.

Here, there are two lanes that could be used with the right lane being marked as a right turn lane, suggesting that it is the lane to use for the last exit. If we consider the intermediate exit that the OP is trying to take in the theoretical context of a roundabout where it is the second of three available exits (which it essentially is here, given the separated left turn lane) then the left lane would be the correct lane to take for both the first and second of the three exits. If you follow the roundabout on street view then the lane markings and layout of the roundabout appear to be set up to "suggest" that taking the right lane on the OP's approach is for the purpose of taking the last available exit.

So, I think the reason why many drivers are doing what they are doing is not based on idiocy but the ambiguity of the situation. The roundabout and lanes need better signing, rather than a 20mph limit which is presumably in place to try and control the risk that has been created by the poor design!

In terms of AD then my suggestion in order to avoid trouble would be to continue to do what you do as you are more in control of the hazards - it's most unlikely that someone will move from the left hand lane whilst on the roundabout and conflict with you whilst you are in the right hand lane whereas if you decided to take the left lane on approach and throughout the roundabout you may encounter a conflict with someone taking the roundabout in the way that you are trying to do, if that makes sense. If you drive the roundabout as you describe with care then an accident is unlikely to occur.

Interested in hearing views on this...

Steve

[davepoth]

Ah, the Gabalfa. I used to live a bit further down North Road, by the Maindy Barracks.

The markings aren't very clear at all, but based on the bit just by North Road where the outside lane splits in two to add a turn lane, and following the markings around, I think the designers were intending for people aiming for North Road to stay on the outside lane.

[skahigh]

The left of the two lanes entering the roundabout (ignoring the slip lane on the left) is marked with an arrow on the ground indicating straight ahead, the junction I am taking is almost 270 degrees around the roundabout. That surely can't be considered straight ahead?

[DocSteve]

Does this help....? http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/dmrb/vol6/se...