Attn Reg - Reversing!
Discussion
Hi Reg,
As I'm sure you are aware I'm assisting a learner at the moment.
One issue that is coming to the front is that when trying to reverse everything seems very easy to me during a demonstration, but the learner is really struggling to remember which way to turn the wheel.
I've been approaching this by saying turn the wheel toward the side you want the back of the car to move towards.
At the same time, and it is a long time since I took my test, I'm not sure if it is acceptable to reverse just using the mirrors.
I was taught to swing your upper torso around and look out of the back window with quick looks into both wing mirrors. It required a shift of your hip and bum position in the seat.
So, is it acceptable for a learner to reverse using only the mirrors, without twisting around?
Without wanting to seem like a smart arse, I'm used to reversing tractors and trailers where you turn the wheel in the opposite direction to the direction you want the trailer to go.
But the one thing I've tried to explain to my learner is that you often need to get from one lock to the other lock very quickly.
As I'm sure you are aware I'm assisting a learner at the moment.
One issue that is coming to the front is that when trying to reverse everything seems very easy to me during a demonstration, but the learner is really struggling to remember which way to turn the wheel.
I've been approaching this by saying turn the wheel toward the side you want the back of the car to move towards.
At the same time, and it is a long time since I took my test, I'm not sure if it is acceptable to reverse just using the mirrors.
I was taught to swing your upper torso around and look out of the back window with quick looks into both wing mirrors. It required a shift of your hip and bum position in the seat.
So, is it acceptable for a learner to reverse using only the mirrors, without twisting around?
Without wanting to seem like a smart arse, I'm used to reversing tractors and trailers where you turn the wheel in the opposite direction to the direction you want the trailer to go.
But the one thing I've tried to explain to my learner is that you often need to get from one lock to the other lock very quickly.
If you have a student who is struggling to comprehend which way to turn the wheel when reversing, I have a little exercise which usually works.
Find a quiet (i.e. empty) car park, identify the reversing manoeuvre you're looking to practice and get the student to get out of the car and stand next to the open drivers-side window whilst you do the driving. Tell them that you will do everything that they tell you to do - to the letter.
Move the car very, very slowly and follow their directions precisely. Once they see - from the outside of the vehicle - the effect different steering inputs have, they very quickly build up an understanding of what direction they need to turn the wheel when reversing.
When they're in the car, they should physically look behind and over their shoulders. The examiner is looking to see that they are fully aware of everything which is happening 360 degrees around the car, including all the blind spots. By all means supplement the observations with mirror checks, but they'll be expected (unless they are physically unable to do so) to look behind and all around the car whilst reversing.
Find a quiet (i.e. empty) car park, identify the reversing manoeuvre you're looking to practice and get the student to get out of the car and stand next to the open drivers-side window whilst you do the driving. Tell them that you will do everything that they tell you to do - to the letter.
Move the car very, very slowly and follow their directions precisely. Once they see - from the outside of the vehicle - the effect different steering inputs have, they very quickly build up an understanding of what direction they need to turn the wheel when reversing.
When they're in the car, they should physically look behind and over their shoulders. The examiner is looking to see that they are fully aware of everything which is happening 360 degrees around the car, including all the blind spots. By all means supplement the observations with mirror checks, but they'll be expected (unless they are physically unable to do so) to look behind and all around the car whilst reversing.
Despite the fact that if one passes one's driving test one can quite easily to be called upon to reverse a van, or an estate car loaded to the roof, and therefore have to use the mirrors and only the mirrors, the DSA wants learners on test to look out of the rear window. I was criticised years ago for reversing on the mirrors when I took the Part 2 ADI test. To me it seems daft if reversing is not taught on the mirrors, but what do I know?
Often wondered this as I took my test in 1970 but only use the mirrors as I feel I can see the way behind better but:
1972 - LWB Landrover van, taking the wages to a site in Northumberland. Reversing in their yard, me looking backwards out of the drivers (sliding) window, office clerk looking out of the passenger window. Everything seemed clear. Hit a telegraph pole exactly mid ships on the rear door!!! Would have seen it if I'd looked through the rear window....
As an aside, I've taken a bus test, you can't look through the rear window on a 53 seater....
1972 - LWB Landrover van, taking the wages to a site in Northumberland. Reversing in their yard, me looking backwards out of the drivers (sliding) window, office clerk looking out of the passenger window. Everything seemed clear. Hit a telegraph pole exactly mid ships on the rear door!!! Would have seen it if I'd looked through the rear window....
As an aside, I've taken a bus test, you can't look through the rear window on a 53 seater....
That is the way I was taught.
Do a shoulder check and use your mirrors (all of them) to reverse with.
There will come times where you wont be able to see out the back of a vehicle (I.E. when a hatch is loaded to the top) and if you turn your entire body then you become obvious to hazards approaching from your sides. People happily walk behind reversing cars without a second thought, with mirrors you at least get a seconds notice.
I have to second Reg's advice. Go to an empty car park and get them used to turning the wheel before letting them to reverse near other vehicles.
Do a shoulder check and use your mirrors (all of them) to reverse with.
There will come times where you wont be able to see out the back of a vehicle (I.E. when a hatch is loaded to the top) and if you turn your entire body then you become obvious to hazards approaching from your sides. People happily walk behind reversing cars without a second thought, with mirrors you at least get a seconds notice.
I have to second Reg's advice. Go to an empty car park and get them used to turning the wheel before letting them to reverse near other vehicles.
if you reverse only using your mirrors you will fail a driving test...period. Your mirrors only give you a limited view down one side of the vehicle, the mirrors are convex, they make things look smaller and further away than they actually are, a mark 1 eye ball, looking out of the rear window, in conjunction with your mirrors is the best way.
You can remove your seat belt (even on test) to carry out any reversing manoeuvre if it assists you in turning to see out of the rear/side windows. but, advise them to pull over and secure the car, and reaplly it before driving on
Half way around the corner/ into bay get driver to stop, and do a 360 deg check that it is safe to continue. get them to lower window, and also listen for any alien noise coming from anywhere not your vehicle, be it voices, vehicles, foot steps, that could mean another road user is approaching .....stop and check it is safe to continue (360deg check) (pedestrians especially like walking behind reversing cars!....they can see you, and assume you can see them!)
yes i know if your in a van you have no choice you have to reverse using your mirrors only, but here we are talking about a car, and anyway plenty of cars and vans have dents because the driver was not looking properly, going too fast, or too lazy to stop, get out, check gaps behind and then try again......slow vehicle faster wheel, do not "dry" steer you loose where straight is, it is more sympathetic to your tyres, steering rack, and power steering motor, all of which are expensive to replace
You can remove your seat belt (even on test) to carry out any reversing manoeuvre if it assists you in turning to see out of the rear/side windows. but, advise them to pull over and secure the car, and reaplly it before driving on
Half way around the corner/ into bay get driver to stop, and do a 360 deg check that it is safe to continue. get them to lower window, and also listen for any alien noise coming from anywhere not your vehicle, be it voices, vehicles, foot steps, that could mean another road user is approaching .....stop and check it is safe to continue (360deg check) (pedestrians especially like walking behind reversing cars!....they can see you, and assume you can see them!)
yes i know if your in a van you have no choice you have to reverse using your mirrors only, but here we are talking about a car, and anyway plenty of cars and vans have dents because the driver was not looking properly, going too fast, or too lazy to stop, get out, check gaps behind and then try again......slow vehicle faster wheel, do not "dry" steer you loose where straight is, it is more sympathetic to your tyres, steering rack, and power steering motor, all of which are expensive to replace
I have to be honest now and say that I've tried Reg's approach where the learner had to tell me how to reverse.
But I actually found me getting out of the car and letting the learner figure it out for them self to be a bit better.
A totally empty car park, where I got the learner to reverse out of one space into another in a swan neck manouvre. A to B.
There's a couple of issues here, the main one is having a safe space where the learner is actually in the car on their own. That's one big wake up for the learner.
Reg, you might try and remember back to the first time you drove a car on your own for the first time. I can remember the first time I sat behind the wheel without anyone else in the car.
But I actually found me getting out of the car and letting the learner figure it out for them self to be a bit better.
A totally empty car park, where I got the learner to reverse out of one space into another in a swan neck manouvre. A to B.
| | |a| | |
v
| | | |b| |
There's a couple of issues here, the main one is having a safe space where the learner is actually in the car on their own. That's one big wake up for the learner.
Reg, you might try and remember back to the first time you drove a car on your own for the first time. I can remember the first time I sat behind the wheel without anyone else in the car.
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