Overtaking a line of cars

[Esceptico]

Scenario that must be familiar to many, especially if you make progress on NSL single carriageways: slow moving vehicle (lorry, van, Sunday driver) at the head of a queue or cars, following in procession. Ideally there would be a long, clear section of road with no on-coming traffic nor any hazards (junctions, etc) so you could overtake the line of cars and the slow moving vehicle in one go. In practice you could be waiting for a long time for such an opportunity. Alternatives would be to join the queue and hope the slow moving vehicle turns off or there is a section of DC. Whilst driving I generally take those options. However, when out on the bike more likely to overtake the line in stages. That means putting myself into the space drivers have left themselves before the next car in the queue. Clearly, if I take that space then the driver now following me is forced to drop back a bit to give themselves some extra braking room. Normally that would only be for a short period before I make my next overtake. However, I will have forced them to adjust position. Is that justified?

[CanAm]

I'm quite happy to make room for a bike under those circumstances. It happens quite often. Moving slightly left and giving a quick left indicator usually results in a friendly wave from the biker.

[TooMany2cvs]

Esceptico said:

Scenario that must be familiar to many, especially if you make progress on NSL single carriageways: slow moving vehicle (lorry, van, Sunday driver) at the head of a queue or cars, following in procession. Ideally there would be a long, clear section of road with no on-coming traffic nor any hazards (junctions, etc) so you could overtake the line of cars and the slow moving vehicle in one go. In practice you could be waiting for a long time for such an opportunity. Alternatives would be to join the queue and hope the slow moving vehicle turns off or there is a section of DC. Whilst driving I generally take those options. However, when out on the bike more likely to overtake the line in stages. That means putting myself into the space drivers have left themselves before the next car in the queue. Clearly, if I take that space then the driver now following me is forced to drop back a bit to give themselves some extra braking room. Normally that would only be for a short period before I make my next overtake. However, I will have forced them to adjust position. Is that justified?

<scratches head> Why would you do something so dangerous as want to drive faster than others?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[TartanPaint]

TooMany2cvs said:

<scratches head> Why would you do something so dangerous as want to drive faster than others?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Not sure what you're doing. Mocking the insanity of that thread? Stirring trouble? Risk increases as speed increases. Fact. I'd have thought that AD would understand that without debate. Whether or not we still do it, and how we might mitigate some of that risk is our favourite topic, is it not? If we don't accept the premise that increasing speed increases risk, why bother with all this advanced nonsense in the first place? We can all drive as fast as we like and it doesn't matter... Oh dammit. I bit, didn't I?

Anyway, back to OP. Yes, on the bike, I too hop along a line of cars as opportunity presents itself. I don't glue myself to the back bumper of the car in front when I slot in. I slow down a bit to give myself more room in front, which in turn slows the car behind down a bit and increases gaps all round. I might then put myself in the middle of the gap I've created. I guess this is sort of pushing the following car back a bit to make room, but done gently. How much I do this will depend on whether I can see the next opportunity to move along or if I think I'll be stuck for a while. The only self-imposed rule I can think of is that I am behind the car I'm following by the time the oncoming traffic passes me. If I'm still sticking out towards the line, or in some sort of imaginary middle lane because the gap I wanted disappeared or didn't exist, then I have well and truly failed that overtake. I need to be all the way tucked in.

I've never had any negative feedback for this sort of thing. I don't think car drivers feel like they're being held up or queue-jumped by bikes, because they know the bike will be sodding off into the distance very shortly.

It has to be done much more carefully in a car, as attitudes are not quite the same. After matching speed along side the gap I want I would indicate left just to make my intention to slot in quite clear (not legally necessary, but useful). A little wave of thanks never does any harm either.

EDIT to add: I once passed 17 cars in a row, on a single carriage way, in a 900cc Fiat Cinquecento. The joy was immense!

Similarly, all tourists travel clockwise around Scotland for some reason. Lines of slow-moving rental cars and motorhomes, with nothing coming the other way. In summer it's not usual to head up Glencoe and spend more time on the wrong side of the road than your own! We've even nick-named it "the Glencoe dual-carriageway" (which it is not).

Edited by TartanPaint on Tuesday 17th May 11:14

[TooMany2cvs]

TartanPaint said:

Not sure what you're doing. Mocking the insanity of that thread? Stirring trouble?

Merely raising an eyebrow at the inconsistent attitudes of the original poster in both that thread and this one...

[TartanPaint]

Ah, I hadn't twigged the username.

I agree with Esceptico in the other thread. Seems to be perfectly willing to acknowledge the relationship between speed and risk, which I would hope every advanced driver would. Not seeing the problem.

[Zod]

Esceptico said:

Scenario that must be familiar to many, especially if you make progress on NSL single carriageways: slow moving vehicle (lorry, van, Sunday driver) at the head of a queue or cars, following in procession. Ideally there would be a long, clear section of road with no on-coming traffic nor any hazards (junctions, etc) so you could overtake the line of cars and the slow moving vehicle in one go. In practice you could be waiting for a long time for such an opportunity. Alternatives would be to join the queue and hope the slow moving vehicle turns off or there is a section of DC. Whilst driving I generally take those options. However, when out on the bike more likely to overtake the line in stages. That means putting myself into the space drivers have left themselves before the next car in the queue. Clearly, if I take that space then the driver now following me is forced to drop back a bit to give themselves some extra braking room. Normally that would only be for a short period before I make my next overtake. However, I will have forced them to adjust position. Is that justified?

I sometimes do it in the car. When there are no hazards, but the line is too long to pass in one go, I will overtake several and then indicate to pull in. If the gap is too small, I will wait for it to be extended.

[xpc316e]

If I wanted to occupy a gap between two vehicles for anything more than the short length of time it takes for an oncomer to go past before I again went out for an overtake, I would want that gap to be of a safe size. if people barge into a line of traffic in order to create a landing space for an ill-planned overtake, that tells me all I need to know about their skills (or lack of them).

[Pip1968]

xpc316e said:

If I wanted to occupy a gap between two vehicles for anything more than the short length of time it takes for an oncomer to go past before I again went out for an overtake, I would want that gap to be of a safe size. if people barge into a line of traffic in order to create a landing space for an ill-planned overtake, that tells me all I need to know about their skills (or lack of them).

I think that is a little harsh. It could also reflect on those following a slow mover. Generally the situation I come across on country roads is a long line of vehicles that are up each others arse. Few are positioned for an overtake, many are too underpowered to be able to grab an opportunity if it arises and the rest seem to think overtaking is illegal.

I will overtake and straddle the centre line if the road is wide enough looking for the next opportunity. Otherwise it means slotting in and waiting. Some seem to get annoyed if they can see you are looking to overtake and deliberately close the gap with the vehicle in front. The same lot who will not pull over on the motorway and wash their windows when you are behind them as if that will put you off.

I think road knowledge of the particular area is key as otherwise opportunites are few.

Pip

[WD39]

Esceptico said:

Scenario that must be familiar to many, especially if you make progress on NSL single carriageways: slow moving vehicle (lorry, van, Sunday driver) at the head of a queue or cars, following in procession. Ideally there would be a long, clear section of road with no on-coming traffic nor any hazards (junctions, etc) so you could overtake the line of cars and the slow moving vehicle in one go. In practice you could be waiting for a long time for such an opportunity. Alternatives would be to join the queue and hope the slow moving vehicle turns off or there is a section of DC. Whilst driving I generally take those options. However, when out on the bike more likely to overtake the line in stages. That means putting myself into the space drivers have left themselves before the next car in the queue. Clearly, if I take that space then the driver now following me is forced to drop back a bit to give themselves some extra braking room. Normally that would only be for a short period before I make my next overtake. However, I will have forced them to adjust position. Is that justified?

Driving up to a line of slower moving traffic is all part of driving these days. The problem arises when, for some drivers, that line is not moving quick enough.

Must get ahead is the default position.In a hurry? most think they are, but not in reality.

How about being patient and cool down for a while? You will arrive eventually.

S.dab.

[Pip1968]

I think it is more when you have a slow mover going 30mph on a NSL road. This then causes a long line of traffic where nobody can get anywhere. Inevitably the following cars are Cinquecentos or young/V. old drivers who seem unable to read road markings or manage an overtake. Personally I get frustrated at poor driving standards. There is often no need for long lines. Forethought and planning when approaching a slow mover is key. No different to walking and those that stand on the escalators. You are a long time dead.

Pip

[vanordinaire]

Esceptico said:

However, I will have forced them to adjust position. Is that justified?

Entirely justified, under Highway Code (rule 168) and common courtesy, a vehicle should drop back to open the gap in front to allow another driver to overtake. If he/she doesn't do it voluntarily , fk 'em, force the gap.

[Zod]

vanordinaire said:

Esceptico said:

However, I will have forced them to adjust position. Is that justified?

Entirely justified, under Highway Code (rule 168) and common courtesy, a vehicle should drop back to open the gap in front to allow another driver to overtake. If he/she doesn't do it voluntarily , fk 'em, force the gap.

Precisely. The idiots who drive in queues, leaving inadequate gaps really need to think about their driving more.

[TartanPaint]

"Number two forms the queue."

It's not the slow driver up the front who is holding everyone up, it's the guy following behind too closely.

[boyse7en]

WD39 said:

Driving up to a line of slower moving traffic is all part of driving these days. The problem arises when, for some drivers, that line is not moving quick enough.

Must get ahead is the default position.In a hurry? most think they are, but not in reality.

How about being patient and cool down for a while? You will arrive eventually.

S.dab.

I suspect you are often the "Second Man in the Queue" behind a caravan/horsebox/HGV with a train of cars stuck behind you for mile on end while they try to decide whether you are ever going to take the overtake opportunity.

If you are really not concerned with making progress, drop back a car length so that following cars can hop in front of you rather than having to overtake both you and slower vehicle together. Gets rid of a lot of stress all round.

[ATG]

Overtaking queued cars like that in one go always worries me given the number of people who don't bother to indicate or look behind properly before starting their own overtake. I'll rarely do it unless I've at least got the option of doing it in a series of smaller hops so my options remain open after I've started the manoeuvre.

[ashleyman]

ATG said:

Overtaking queued cars like that in one go always worries me given the number of people who don't bother to indicate or look behind properly before starting their own overtake. I'll rarely do it unless I've at least got the option of doing it in a series of smaller hops so my options remain open after I've started the manoeuvre.

Same! I always use the mirror and indicate right when I plan to overtake. But knowing that many of the cars in front might not do that because 'nobody would overtake me' they might just pull out. I'm keen to overtake 1 or 2 cars at a time, but a bunch of 5 or 6 cars all behind an HGV or something makes me doubtful of it being safe.

I saw a video recently where the guy was pulling an overtake and an Audi pulled out on him overtook then pulled in again and then the car carried on overtaking the Audi. If the original overtaker hadn't been as good a driver as he was he'd have ended up in the bushes.

[Zod]

I've had to brake and pull in several times when a driver further up the queue has pulled out without looking. You have to be aware that its' a possibility.

[WD39]

boyse7en said:

WD39 said:

Driving up to a line of slower moving traffic is all part of driving these days. The problem arises when, for some drivers, that line is not moving quick enough.

Must get ahead is the default position.In a hurry? most think they are, but not in reality.

How about being patient and cool down for a while? You will arrive eventually.

S.dab.

I suspect you are often the "Second Man in the Queue" behind a caravan/horsebox/HGV with a train of cars stuck behind you for mile on end while they try to decide whether you are ever going to take the overtake opportunity.

If you are really not concerned with making progress, drop back a car length so that following cars can hop in front of you rather than having to overtake both you and slower vehicle together. Gets rid of a lot of stress all round.

I like to make progress, but in our modern motoring world a slow moving line is almost inevitable, so I just relax and do as you suggest which is drop back and allow OT.

So from that I can visualise that the third or fourth driver is to blame, or not, if they drive like me.

[Esceptico]

Zod said:

I've had to brake and pull in several times when a driver further up the queue has pulled out without looking. You have to be aware that its' a possibility.

If I doubt I will use the horn, although many people don't like it as they think you are being aggressive rather than just letting them know you are there.