Was this crash avoidable (by the victim)??
Discussion
This crash has been making front page news:
horrible_crash
I'm interested to see if anyone could come up with a scenario where the victim could have avoided, or even mitigated the outcome?
(i don't want to turn this into another bashing thread, it should be so we can learn something from these tragic events)
As far as i can tell, the only way to mitigate the severity would have been for the victim to have braked hard, immediately the first car cut across his path, using Reg's "where one goes, others are bound to follow rule?
horrible_crash
I'm interested to see if anyone could come up with a scenario where the victim could have avoided, or even mitigated the outcome?
(i don't want to turn this into another bashing thread, it should be so we can learn something from these tragic events)
As far as i can tell, the only way to mitigate the severity would have been for the victim to have braked hard, immediately the first car cut across his path, using Reg's "where one goes, others are bound to follow rule?
Video of the moments before impact here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36396341
I'm not convinced they stood much of a chance.
The driver of the Land Rover has been jailed for 4 1/2 years.
I'm not convinced they stood much of a chance.
The driver of the Land Rover has been jailed for 4 1/2 years.
I would have eased off, but not braked, after the first car turned across. Hard to tell from the video whether the victim slowed, maybe he did?
Even under my absolute strictest, trying as hard as I can with full commentary driving... I would never have anticipated a car overtaking on the inside, on a driveway, hidden perfectly by that Mercedes, pointed right at me.... No way.
Potentially, he maybe had just enough time to steer right, out of the Discovery's way - but it's a matter of milliseconds and you'd have to be in seriously "switched on" mode to make the decision to steer your family into oncoming traffic in literally milliseconds.
Even under my absolute strictest, trying as hard as I can with full commentary driving... I would never have anticipated a car overtaking on the inside, on a driveway, hidden perfectly by that Mercedes, pointed right at me.... No way.
Potentially, he maybe had just enough time to steer right, out of the Discovery's way - but it's a matter of milliseconds and you'd have to be in seriously "switched on" mode to make the decision to steer your family into oncoming traffic in literally milliseconds.
I really don't think there was much they could do, even if they had lightning quick reactions. The land rover undertook, then swung across the oncoming traffic at such a rate it is near impossible to predict what would happen.
First time I watched the video it certainly took my by surprise.
Such a sad story
First time I watched the video it certainly took my by surprise.
Such a sad story
Max_Torque said:
As far as i can tell, the only way to mitigate the severity would have been for the victim to have braked hard, immediately the first car cut across his path, using Reg's "where one goes, others are bound to follow rule?
No way to avoid it, but a hard swerve left would have massively reduced the impact, because the forces would have pushed the hit car round, instead of just trying to stop it dead.Unbelievable bit of driving by the Disco. Prize cock, and VERY lucky not to have been facing DbDD.
I didn't realise that there was now a separate "serious injury by dangerous" offence, though. Interesting. Max 5yrs prison, versus 2yrs for normal DD or 14yrs for DbDD.
bigbob77 said:
I would have eased off, but not braked, after the first car turned across. Hard to tell from the video whether the victim slowed, maybe he did?
Even under my absolute strictest, trying as hard as I can with full commentary driving... I would never have anticipated a car overtaking on the inside, on a driveway, hidden perfectly by that Mercedes, pointed right at me.... No way.
Potentially, he maybe had just enough time to steer right, out of the Discovery's way - but it's a matter of milliseconds and you'd have to be in seriously "switched on" mode to make the decision to steer your family into oncoming traffic in literally milliseconds.
Absolutely agree with that.Even under my absolute strictest, trying as hard as I can with full commentary driving... I would never have anticipated a car overtaking on the inside, on a driveway, hidden perfectly by that Mercedes, pointed right at me.... No way.
Potentially, he maybe had just enough time to steer right, out of the Discovery's way - but it's a matter of milliseconds and you'd have to be in seriously "switched on" mode to make the decision to steer your family into oncoming traffic in literally milliseconds.
It looks like the driver does try to steer left just before impact, but doesn't stand a chance. Really awful story, poor family.
ETA - Just watching it again, it looks like the driver lifts off/touches the brake as the first car comes across (bonnet dips slightly) then is back on the throttle again (bonnet rises) as the Discovery turns across. Both of which would be reasonable and normal driving. Or am I seeing things?
Edited by _Neal_ on Friday 27th May 15:28
I've watched this one a few times and asked myself the same question. In all honesty, I don't think anyone could have avoided the collision at all and it's very unlikely that anyone could have done much more to mitigate the severity of the impact.
With the benefit of hindsight, a full application of brakes and a hard steer right would have put "our" vehicle into contact with the nearside of the 4X4, rather than the full head-on collision, but that would have thrown the vehicle to the offside which would have had unknown consequences, probably involving the Mercedes.
The situation prior to impact is one of those rare occasions where it was impossible to predict. The HGV took much of the view of oncoming vehicles and the maneuvre by the 4X4 driver was so egregiously unpredictable that it fell well outside the scope of "what you could reasonably expect to happen".
You know, we all do daft things every now and again, and we all have little moments when we look back and think "that was a bit daft - I'll never do that again". But this move, by a driver who should have bloody well known better, is one of the worst pieces of driving I've ever seen - and I include most of those Russian dashcam videos.
With the benefit of hindsight, a full application of brakes and a hard steer right would have put "our" vehicle into contact with the nearside of the 4X4, rather than the full head-on collision, but that would have thrown the vehicle to the offside which would have had unknown consequences, probably involving the Mercedes.
The situation prior to impact is one of those rare occasions where it was impossible to predict. The HGV took much of the view of oncoming vehicles and the maneuvre by the 4X4 driver was so egregiously unpredictable that it fell well outside the scope of "what you could reasonably expect to happen".
You know, we all do daft things every now and again, and we all have little moments when we look back and think "that was a bit daft - I'll never do that again". But this move, by a driver who should have bloody well known better, is one of the worst pieces of driving I've ever seen - and I include most of those Russian dashcam videos.
Poor sods.
It's the ones like that which really bother me, as there really is little you could do.
I like to think that my reaction would be to go right if I saw it i time, but the best outcome would be damage limitation. No way you're going to avoid it completely I don't think.
What an absolute s
t of a person to do that.
It's the ones like that which really bother me, as there really is little you could do.
I like to think that my reaction would be to go right if I saw it i time, but the best outcome would be damage limitation. No way you're going to avoid it completely I don't think.
What an absolute s
t of a person to do that.iwantagta said:
Of course there is nothing you could have done.
Just used my phone time it and I get around 0.4 seconds between earliest moment you could think something looks wrong & impact.
Try it for yourself. Appalling driving. Lucky to onl;y get what he did.
I had a similar type of accident when a vehicle unexpectedly appeared on my side of the road. Lucky we hit with just a glancing blow and although my car was written off, no major harm was done.Just used my phone time it and I get around 0.4 seconds between earliest moment you could think something looks wrong & impact.
Try it for yourself. Appalling driving. Lucky to onl;y get what he did.
After the incident I analysed my dashcam footage, the time taken from seeing the hazard to taking evasive action was 0.7 seconds. My research suggested that this was the average time taken by your brain to process the situation and make the decision on what you are going to do about it.
The driver of the dashcam car had no chance, not even enough time to react. This whole story is awful, 4.5 years for what he did to those poor girls is just not enough.
Very sad.
In answer to the original question I think the answer is no. I saw this video elsewhere with the victim's car travelling at 57 MPH. As previously said the HGV obscured alot of the activity seconds before. The Discovery looks as though it is passing the Mercedes on the inside then at the last millisecond turns right. Who could possibly expect that? The Discovery driver even with the benefit of a high driving position and experience of the vehicle was obviously not looking at the oncoming traffic, but looking at the car he was pursuing.Shocking to watch. Lives changed in the fraction of a second.
In answer to the original question I think the answer is no. I saw this video elsewhere with the victim's car travelling at 57 MPH. As previously said the HGV obscured alot of the activity seconds before. The Discovery looks as though it is passing the Mercedes on the inside then at the last millisecond turns right. Who could possibly expect that? The Discovery driver even with the benefit of a high driving position and experience of the vehicle was obviously not looking at the oncoming traffic, but looking at the car he was pursuing.Shocking to watch. Lives changed in the fraction of a second.
Edited by The Motorist on Sunday 29th May 23:05
I've seen it posted everywhere, no chance they could avoid him and I just cannot understand how the Disco driver thought he would make that.
However... I do wonder how the girls who were presumably in the back have ended up paralyzed? Were they not strapped in or sat in some really bad child seats? You'd think the parents in the front would have gotten more seriously injured.
However... I do wonder how the girls who were presumably in the back have ended up paralyzed? Were they not strapped in or sat in some really bad child seats? You'd think the parents in the front would have gotten more seriously injured.
Horrible, what an utter arsehat that bloke is, sounded like he fought it tooth and nail until the end rather than expressing remorse too so deserves everything he gets.
In terms of avoiding it? Nah, it's just too quick. I'd have lifted off a bit for that junction but no way could you anticipate someone coming from L1 across. Only instinctive movement would have been to turn hard left which might have softened the impact slightly. Just fortunate they had a dashcam to properly nail this.
In terms of avoiding it? Nah, it's just too quick. I'd have lifted off a bit for that junction but no way could you anticipate someone coming from L1 across. Only instinctive movement would have been to turn hard left which might have softened the impact slightly. Just fortunate they had a dashcam to properly nail this
.Turkish91 said:
However... I do wonder how the girls who were presumably in the back have ended up paralyzed? Were they not strapped in or sat in some really bad child seats? You'd think the parents in the front would have gotten more seriously injured.
Yes, that puzzles me too.No excuse for that driving though.
Dogwatch said:
Turkish91 said:
However... I do wonder how the girls who were presumably in the back have ended up paralyzed? Were they not strapped in or sat in some really bad child seats? You'd think the parents in the front would have gotten more seriously injured.
Yes, that puzzles me too.No excuse for that driving though.
There are rear-facing child seats available up to 4 years old to tackle that problem (which is even worse for toddlers) but these girls were too old.
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