Was this crash avoidable (by the victim)??

[The Motorist]

The little girls' feet would have been close to the back of the front seats which were forced backwards. So sad.
Looking at the angle of the Discovery and the manoeuvre with the offside front wheel approaching a lift the ESP would have slowed its progress. Not that the outcome would have been different I guess. Either a roll or the victim''s car would have hit it in the side.
All those lives changed in a second. They didn't have a chance. Assuming those children live say another 70 years that is 140 years worth of care/assistance they will need.

[Sheepshanks]

Reg Local said:

With the benefit of hindsight, a full application of brakes and a hard steer right would have put "our" vehicle into contact with the nearside of the 4X4, rather than the full head-on collision, but that would have thrown the vehicle to the offside which would have had unknown consequences, probably involving the Mercedes.

Bearing in mind the family is from Latvia it's perhaps surprising that he didn't swerve right but as said, even if he missed the Discovery he's have likely hit the Merc, or maybe had a full head-on with a car coming the other way, or perhaps even have hit the building.

In some ways the worst thing that could have happened would be to have missed the Discovery altogether and then crashed into something else with the Discovery driving off, no-one having noticed its reg no. In that respect, this incident has changed my opinion about dash-cams.

I use a derestricted A roads like this one quite lot and I'm always wary if I end up with clear space in front of me, although I'm thinking more of someone overtaking towards me.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Friday 3rd June 10:20

[longshot]

Looking at the video, the driver had about a second to take in the scene that appeared in front of him, realise what was going to happen and take avoiding action.

No matter who was driving, the outcome would have been the same.
The driver never stood a chance.

His behaviour in the case makes him appear to be a truly horrid creature and I think he did very well sentence wise.

I have no idea what his insurers will do but I hope there is a colossal pay-out or medical support for years to come.

It would be interesting to see photos of both cars after the impact.
It shows that NCAP is helpful it is a lottery what car you have a crash with.

[DannyScene]

4.5 years for causing life changing injuries that the 2 poor girls will have to live with for 70+ years each, what a joke!

[anonymous-user]

Reg Local said:

I've watched this one a few times and asked myself the same question.

Having just finished reading your rater good "How not to crash" book, i thought you might have considered this incident!

As i said, they actual incident unfolds too fast for any meaningful reaction, and swerving or turning opens up the possibility of a side impact, rather than a frontal, and in that case, car vs Disco4, there is a very very strong chance it would have been fatal.


The bit of advice that seems to fit is the one i mentioned, the "where on idiot goes, another is bound to follow" bit of advice! There IS time after the first car swerves across the road for the victim to brake, or reposition, but considering the rarity of this kind of event (more usually caused by someone falling asleep at the wheel (or having some form of medical incident (stroke, seizure etc)) i'm simply not sure if it would be sensibly or practically possible to consider during everyday driving?

[The Motorist]

Looking at the video who would ever have forseen the manoeuvre The Discovery looks as if it is just passing the Mercedes on the inside and then at the last fraction of a second swings across. Incredible. To answer the original question I don't think it could have been avoided. What did the Discovery driver think he was going to do to the Mazda driver when he caught up with her?

[pim]

What was he going to do to her? Mister coward and all the misery he caused.

I don't know if he has any children or wife but he can think about it for a while in the nick.The two little girls are damaged for the rest of their lives.

[LeMan]

Firstly, I have to say how shocking that dashcam video is and how awful it now is for the family of those 2 little girls. As a parent to 3 children of a similar age, I find it truly upsetting to watch and think how cruelly unfortunate it was for them to be there at that exact moment in time. My heart goes out to them.

Going back to the question posted, I honestly cannot see how this could have been avoided by the victims in the accident. For the Mazda to first cut across oncoming traffic, when they also could not have had a clear view, is one thing. At that point, the driver of the oncoming car would have reacted and maybe did so. But how on earth could he have foreseen the Land Rover swerving across his path, after under-cutting another car on the inside?

All I can say is that I think the 4.5yr sentence is a massive injustice for the pain he's caused that family and I would have rather he'd swerved in front of a 40te truck.

[esxste]

I don't think anyone could have reacted to that. Less than a second passes between first sighting of the Discovery and the eventual impact.

At first sight there is no indication that the driver is going to swerve around the car he's just undertaken.

Utterly appalling driving by someone who was overconfident in his skill, particulary risk assessment. I sincerely hope he comes to feels deep and true guilt for the rest of his life.

[Len Woodman]

It's very unfortunate that he has been described as a Jaguar Land Rover manager and off-road driving instructor.

Helps the 'anti-driver training' academics writing road safety papers!

Did he instruct for JLR? If so they should also be approached for a comment on why someone like him was working for them. Years ago when I worked for BSM if it has been a BSM instructor, even off duty, they would surely have had accusations made of them.

[Len Woodman]

Blakewater said:

This is every cocky, aggressive managerial type I've ever had to deal with in businesses where it's thought arrogant bullies are the sort of people necessary to lead teams.

Lots of these all around Sydney especially North Sydney (where I live) - most only drive at weekends, but drive expensive performance cars (guess the most common type?) at speed in urban areas because that's where their audience is - out on open roads the kangaroos at not impressed!

[trickywoo]

TooMany2cvs said:

No way to avoid it, but a hard swerve left would have massively reduced the impact, because the forces would have pushed the hit car round, instead of just trying to stop it dead.

Maybe but side impact protection isn't as good as front and 2+ tonnes of disco going into the side wouldn't have been a good scenario.

[CraigyMc]

Len Woodman said:

It's very unfortunate that he has been described as a Jaguar Land Rover manager and off-road driving instructor.

Helps the 'anti-driver training' academics writing road safety papers!

Did he instruct for JLR? If so they should also be approached for a comment on why someone like him was working for them. Years ago when I worked for BSM if it has been a BSM instructor, even off duty, they would surely have had accusations made of them.

According to his LinkedIn page he is exactly that, directly employed by jlr and driving a company vehicle.

[MarkwG]

Len Woodman said:

If so they should also be approached for a comment on why someone like him was working for them.

I imagine, prior to this accident, he'd demonstrated the attitudes, behaviours & competence they expected & demanded: one extremely poor judgement error with catastrophic consequences, doesn't necessarily mean everything prior to that moment was poorly judged.

[Blakewater]

MarkwG said:

Len Woodman said:

If so they should also be approached for a comment on why someone like him was working for them.

I imagine, prior to this accident, he'd demonstrated the attitudes, behaviours & competence they expected & demanded: one extremely poor judgement error with catastrophic consequences, doesn't necessarily mean everything prior to that moment was poorly judged.

Turning in front of an oncoming car is perhaps poor judgement. Not looking properly, underestimating its speed of approach.

Chasing after a woman in another car while laughing with your passenger about what a lark it is to bully another driver and then pulling the craziest driving manoeuvre I've ever seen to keep up with her when she deviates off her intended course to try and get away from you shows willful, planned and sustained aggressive and careless behaviour.

Personally I imagine him to be the kind of cocky type I often see bullstting his way to the top in business. He might know the right things to say at the right time in work but the fact he's been given a responsible job within the company makes me question the judgement of those who've employed and promoted him and wonder what the company is like to work for.

I'm not a, "Think of the children," type but this is the kind of behaviour that gives every BRAKE type, Mumsnet member and angry cyclist ammunition to say motorists are terrible and out to pick fights and kill people. We all get penalised because of this kind of behaviour on the road when it results in more restrictions on motoring, aside from the danger of being immediately involved with them.

[MarkwG]

Blakewater said:

MarkwG said:

Len Woodman said:

If so they should also be approached for a comment on why someone like him was working for them.

I imagine, prior to this accident, he'd demonstrated the attitudes, behaviours & competence they expected & demanded: one extremely poor judgement error with catastrophic consequences, doesn't necessarily mean everything prior to that moment was poorly judged.

Turning in front of an oncoming car is perhaps poor judgement. Not looking properly, underestimating its speed of approach.

Chasing after a woman in another car while laughing with your passenger about what a lark it is to bully another driver and then pulling the craziest driving manoeuvre I've ever seen to keep up with her when she deviates off her intended course to try and get away from you shows willful, planned and sustained aggressive and careless behaviour.

Personally I imagine him to be the kind of cocky type I often see bullstting his way to the top in business. He might know the right things to say at the right time in work but the fact he's been given a responsible job within the company makes me question the judgement of those who've employed and promoted him and wonder what the company is like to work for.

I'm not a, "Think of the children," type but this is the kind of behaviour that gives every BRAKE type, Mumsnet member and angry cyclist ammunition to say motorists are terrible and out to pick fights and kill people. We all get penalised because of this kind of behaviour on the road when it results in more restrictions on motoring, aside from the danger of being immediately involved with them.

Yep that's entirely possible, & I agree - you may well be right, however we've no way of knowing what he was like in his whole life prior to this event. I have worked with characters you describe, & seen some appalling behaviour at times, but tying that to a situation such as this is almost impossible without entering into some "Minority Report" scenario: sadly, hindsight is 20/20 of course. The post above seems to imply the employer should take responsibility for his behaviour, & if there's a clear trend his driving was unacceptable prior to, that's reasonable - but I suspect they'll have regular checks in place & he'll have passed them to be able to continue driving, otherwise they'll have got rid of him much earlier. If not, maybe there's a law suit on its way already. As ever, people are multi faceted & he may have been an angel in many other respects, but ultimately, in my view, it's down to personal responsibility, & that is his.

[Stevez]

I think it was avoidable because when I see a large group of cars like that, I slow down due to the decreased vision. However, still disgusting and not the victims fault but I personally always slow down when I see a bunch of cars like that.

[longshot]

It still shocks me looking at that vid.

I'd never noticed before that the Mercedes he comes around was indicating to turn right.
He must have had the fright of his life too.

I wonder what explanation he uses when people ask him about this?

[routari]

longshot said:

I wonder what explanation he uses when people ask him about this?

In this age, the people asking will have already seen the evidence, so he's got nothing left to say except he's a dangerous psychopath that put two young girls in wheelchairs.

I hope there are some really big things to come in medicine or robotic assistance or prosthetic devices in their lifetimes.

[Mafffew]

There is no way anyone can react to that. Even if they had super human reflexes, going left puts you on course with the Land Rover still, going right is oncoming traffic...What a horrible situation for the father, for those girls.

Mr Nay needs to be jailed for longer and a permanent ban on driving is required, add a few broken bones when inside too. I think Nay's passenger needs to have a good going over as well, how do you just sit by and watch him pull a stunt like that? Coward.