I am becomming a middle lane hogger, are you?
Discussion
PF62 said:
Unfortunately their behavior tends to influence the MLH.
Someone with nascent MLH tenancies finds that, for example on a dual carriageway when they come up behind a truck and need to move right to overtake and pass, they find RLHers barreling down the outside and they get a bit upset at needing to slow. So simpler to join the MLH club stay in the outside (or middle) lane.
After all, if the RLH doesn't need to move left, then why does the MLH.
exactly.Someone with nascent MLH tenancies finds that, for example on a dual carriageway when they come up behind a truck and need to move right to overtake and pass, they find RLHers barreling down the outside and they get a bit upset at needing to slow. So simpler to join the MLH club stay in the outside (or middle) lane.
After all, if the RLH doesn't need to move left, then why does the MLH.
and of course RLH will only turn off at last second across multiple lanes, causing braking - and therefore brake lights - and a knock on shockwave down the carriageway.
spookly said:
C70R said:
spookly said:
C70R said:
spookly said:
Uh, yeah. you'd think so wouldn't you.
So consider these two stellar examples:
Just because you are a part time MLM, and only stay in lane 2 when it's too much work for you to pull in and out, does not mean you aren't part of the problem.
Either speed up, pull in, or take an A road.
Sort of shot yourself in the foot there, champ. So consider these two stellar examples:
- Muppet sat in lane 2, no traffic visible as far as the horizon. As I come up behind him I give him a flash. He moves into lane 1. I pass, then pull into lane 1 well in front of him. He immediately pulls back out into lane 2 despite me flying off into the distance in front.
Just because you are a part time MLM, and only stay in lane 2 when it's too much work for you to pull in and out, does not mean you aren't part of the problem.
Either speed up, pull in, or take an A road.
If you'd actually read what I wrote, and engaged your brain before you'd typed, rather than trying to score a cheap internet point, you wouldn't have looked like such an utter chump.
And as you probably know, all the MLMs in heavier traffic are an even greater menace.
You're trying too hard, and looking silly.
Inconsiderate and s
t driving.Are you actually excusing the behaviour of someone who drives in lane 2 on an empty motorway? Or just trying to score some points because you believe you should be able to drive 100's of miles in lane 2 without pulling in.
Cringe.
robbyd said:
I don't see how we can have a situation where a car in lane 2 or 3 can effectively 'own' the empty lanes to its left by refusing to move over, and be supported by the law.
Where the M25 is now 4 lanes, lane three has become the new lane two, unfortunately.
You are right - most 4 lane motorways appear to be a waste of money nobody uses the inside lines, coming back from Gatwick to Dartford you can make better progress in Lane one than the others.Where the M25 is now 4 lanes, lane three has become the new lane two, unfortunately.
When they considered increasing the speed limit to 80mph I was initially all for it, however we the motoring public don't actually deserve it our lane discipline on motorways is so poor.
Years ago driving with a friend she pulled onto the 3 lane motorway and moved straight into the middle lane - why ? In case I get stuck behind a lorry, but there are no lorries .....
robbyd said:
I don't see how we can have a situation where a car in lane 2 or 3 can effectively 'own' the empty lanes to its left by refusing to move over, and be supported by the law.
Where the M25 is now 4 lanes, lane three has become the new lane two, unfortunately.
Yeah what's up with that? People pootling along at 65 in lane 3 when the other 3 lanes are totally empty except for me gliding past in lane 1. Where the M25 is now 4 lanes, lane three has become the new lane two, unfortunately.
robbyd said:
I don't see how we can have a situation where a car in lane 2 or 3 can effectively 'own' the empty lanes to its left by refusing to move over, and be supported by the law.
Where the M25 is now 4 lanes, lane three has become the new lane two, unfortunately.
I've said on another thread we are moving away from a 'German model' of dual carriageway use (higher speeds, larger spread of speeds, keep to lane 1 unless overtaking & other lanes are to be used for overtaking) to a 'USA model' of use (slower speeds, lower spread of speeds, staying in lanes, passing both sides with minimal differentials, no weaving between lanes to overtake).Where the M25 is now 4 lanes, lane three has become the new lane two, unfortunately.
Motorway management policies & enforcement on them foster a USA model, not a German model. We are seeing a cultural change in motorway use.
I'm not likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for picking a lane & staying in it (save extreme cases), or remaining in your lane to pass vehicles on their nearside with small differentials.
I am more likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit, weaving between lanes to pass &/or passing nearside with larger differentials.
jamei303 said:
robbyd said:
I don't see how we can have a situation where a car in lane 2 or 3 can effectively 'own' the empty lanes to its left by refusing to move over, and be supported by the law.
Where the M25 is now 4 lanes, lane three has become the new lane two, unfortunately.
Yeah what's up with that? People pootling along at 65 in lane 3 when the other 3 lanes are totally empty except for me gliding past in lane 1. Where the M25 is now 4 lanes, lane three has become the new lane two, unfortunately.
You have 5mph more than them that you can legally travel at & the authorities aren't in reality going to bother you for passing them in a lane to their nearside with that 5mph differential.
vonhosen said:
I've said on another thread we are moving away from a 'German model' of dual carriageway use (higher speeds, larger spread of speeds, keep to lane 1 unless overtaking & other lanes are to be used for overtaking) to a 'USA model' of use (slower speeds, lower spread of speeds, staying in lanes, passing both sides with minimal differentials, no weaving between lanes to overtake).
Motorway management policies & enforcement on them foster a USA model, not a German model. We are seeing a cultural change in motorway use.
I'm not likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for picking a lane & staying in it (save extreme cases), or remaining in your lane to pass vehicles on their nearside with small differentials.
I am more likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit, weaving between lanes to pass &/or passing nearside with larger differentials.
This sounds totally moronic. Kill me now.Motorway management policies & enforcement on them foster a USA model, not a German model. We are seeing a cultural change in motorway use.
I'm not likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for picking a lane & staying in it (save extreme cases), or remaining in your lane to pass vehicles on their nearside with small differentials.
I am more likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit, weaving between lanes to pass &/or passing nearside with larger differentials.
witko999 said:
vonhosen said:
I've said on another thread we are moving away from a 'German model' of dual carriageway use (higher speeds, larger spread of speeds, keep to lane 1 unless overtaking & other lanes are to be used for overtaking) to a 'USA model' of use (slower speeds, lower spread of speeds, staying in lanes, passing both sides with minimal differentials, no weaving between lanes to overtake).
Motorway management policies & enforcement on them foster a USA model, not a German model. We are seeing a cultural change in motorway use.
I'm not likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for picking a lane & staying in it (save extreme cases), or remaining in your lane to pass vehicles on their nearside with small differentials.
I am more likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit, weaving between lanes to pass &/or passing nearside with larger differentials.
This sounds totally moronic. Kill me now.Motorway management policies & enforcement on them foster a USA model, not a German model. We are seeing a cultural change in motorway use.
I'm not likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for picking a lane & staying in it (save extreme cases), or remaining in your lane to pass vehicles on their nearside with small differentials.
I am more likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit, weaving between lanes to pass &/or passing nearside with larger differentials.
On busy roads with actively enforced limits & a small spread of legal speeds available to drivers, the USA model probably makes more sense.
Composite Guru said:
But it doesn't & it's not likely to or have an impact either.vonhosen said:
Is it what you are experiencing on our motorways though?
On busy roads with actively enforced limits & a small spread of legal speeds available to drivers, the USA model probably makes more sense.
On managed sections of motorway, probably my biggest gripe is that people think lane discipline no longer applies, so will just stay in whatever lane they like regardless of what is or isn't in the lane to their left.On busy roads with actively enforced limits & a small spread of legal speeds available to drivers, the USA model probably makes more sense.
Rather than changing policies to cater to these morons and make that the norm, how about enforcing proper lane discipline? Then we wouldn't need these so called 'smart' motorways to supposedly increase capacity.
witko999 said:
vonhosen said:
Is it what you are experiencing on our motorways though?
On busy roads with actively enforced limits & a small spread of legal speeds available to drivers, the USA model probably makes more sense.
On managed sections of motorway, probably my biggest gripe is that people think lane discipline no longer applies, so will just stay in whatever lane they like regardless of what is or isn't in the lane to their left.On busy roads with actively enforced limits & a small spread of legal speeds available to drivers, the USA model probably makes more sense.
witko999 said:
Rather than changing policies to cater to these morons and make that the norm, how about enforcing proper lane discipline? Then we wouldn't need these so called 'smart' motorways to supposedly increase capacity.
The German model requires more redundant space for all the lane changing that comes with it.There are few resources for enforcing it & it's harder to enforce because it isn't so black/white. As I said if you only have a small spread of legal speeds with a USA model MLMs are generally not a problem.
We have a narrow spread of legal speeds being used on our roads & the authorities aren't realistically going to worry about you not being able to do illegal speeds are they.
It all fosters & supports a USA model as opposed to a German model.
In the German model lane discipline is an imperative to keep speeds high for those that want to do high speeds.
Where you can't legally do high speeds, have a small spread of used speeds & can pass either side with small differentials, lane discipline is not an imperative. It's actually better/safer to get into a lane that is travelling at your desired speed & not be doing unnecessary lane changes.
The USA model favours volume at the expense of outright speed, the German favours speed at the expense of outright volume.
The government has set it's stall out on not wanting speed & wanting volume, it's just that the Highway code advice/policy is lagging behind what is actually happening due to motorway management & enforcement policies. No wonder drivers find it confusing.
vonhosen said:
The German model requires more redundant space for all the lane changing that comes with it.
There are few resources for enforcing it & it's harder to enforce because it isn't so black/white. As I said if you only have a small spread of legal speeds with a USA model MLMs are generally not a problem.
We have a narrow spread of legal speeds being used on our roads & the authorities aren't realistically going to worry about you not being able to do illegal speeds are they.
It all fosters & supports a USA model as opposed to a German model.
In the German model lane discipline is an imperative to keep speeds high for those that want to do high speeds.
Where you can't legally do high speeds, have a small spread of used speeds & can pass either side with small differentials, lane discipline is not an imperative. It's actually better/safer to get into a lane that is travelling at your desired speed & not be doing unnecessary lane changes.
The USA model favours volume at the expense of outright speed, the German favours speed at the expense of outright volume.
The government has set it's stall out on not wanting speed & wanting volume, it's just that the Highway code advice/policy is lagging behind what is actually happening due to motorway management & enforcement policies. No wonder drivers find it confusing.
The highway code is supposed to guide drivers, not amend itself to suit poor driving that's actually happening on the motorway.There are few resources for enforcing it & it's harder to enforce because it isn't so black/white. As I said if you only have a small spread of legal speeds with a USA model MLMs are generally not a problem.
We have a narrow spread of legal speeds being used on our roads & the authorities aren't realistically going to worry about you not being able to do illegal speeds are they.
It all fosters & supports a USA model as opposed to a German model.
In the German model lane discipline is an imperative to keep speeds high for those that want to do high speeds.
Where you can't legally do high speeds, have a small spread of used speeds & can pass either side with small differentials, lane discipline is not an imperative. It's actually better/safer to get into a lane that is travelling at your desired speed & not be doing unnecessary lane changes.
The USA model favours volume at the expense of outright speed, the German favours speed at the expense of outright volume.
The government has set it's stall out on not wanting speed & wanting volume, it's just that the Highway code advice/policy is lagging behind what is actually happening due to motorway management & enforcement policies. No wonder drivers find it confusing.
Your 'small spread of legal speeds' might include someone in L2 doing 55mph with nothing to his left, whilst another person approaches in L1 at 70mph. In this instance, should the person pass on the left at 70mph? Slow to 60mph and creep past on the left? Or move over to L3 and pass? The correct answer is that the idiot in L2 should be in L1.
I'm generally not disagreeing with any of what you've said, but it infuriates me that the chosen course of action is always to reduce everything to the lowest common denominator.
vonhosen said:
I've said on another thread we are moving away from a 'German model' of dual carriageway use (higher speeds, larger spread of speeds, keep to lane 1 unless overtaking & other lanes are to be used for overtaking) to a 'USA model' of use (slower speeds, lower spread of speeds, staying in lanes, passing both sides with minimal differentials, no weaving between lanes to overtake).
Motorway management policies & enforcement on them foster a USA model, not a German model. We are seeing a cultural change in motorway use.
I'm not likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for picking a lane & staying in it (save extreme cases), or remaining in your lane to pass vehicles on their nearside with small differentials.
I am more likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit, weaving between lanes to pass &/or passing nearside with larger differentials.
...so it is ok to pass on the left then? Motorway management policies & enforcement on them foster a USA model, not a German model. We are seeing a cultural change in motorway use.
I'm not likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for picking a lane & staying in it (save extreme cases), or remaining in your lane to pass vehicles on their nearside with small differentials.
I am more likely to see people getting stopped/prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit, weaving between lanes to pass &/or passing nearside with larger differentials.
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