I am becomming a middle lane hogger, are you?

[vonhosen]

davepoth said:

vonhosen said:

Each case will be dealt with on it's merits, whether you get reported or not will not rely on how you view conditions (or interpret congested), but how the person deciding whether to report you does.
I have a clear idea in my mind what congested looks like for me & whether you have merely maintained a lane in congested conditions (that 268 permits), or have moved to the left & passed in congested conditions (not what 268 permits), maintained a lane on the nearside in uncongested conditions (not what 268 permits) or moved to the left & passed in uncongested conditions (not what 268 permits).

Let's extrapolate to absurdities then. A tractor is travelling at 8mph in lane 3 on an otherwise empty motorway. Legal to pass on the left or not?

You can extrapolate to absurdities, but it doesn't alter things.
268 doesn't permit you to pass on the left in those circumstances.
If however I was a Police officer present in such circumstances I'd be speaking to the tractor driver.
The majority of passing on the left I'd be speaking to the driver passing on the left though.

[bitchstewie]

Interesting thread. Here's one I face daily that I'm curious on.

Dual carriageway exits from a major island where it crosses a motorway.

About 1/2 mile down the DC there is are traffic lights with an industrial estate on the right so people in lane 2 of the DC move out of lane 2 over into a short dedicated pair of lanes for the right turn.

In practise there are lots of lorries and slow traffic that exit the roundabout in lane 2 and drive down the DC for 1/2 mile at 30mph as they never get up to speed before moving from lane 2 into the exit lanes for the industrial estate.

What is traffic exiting the roundabout to continue down the DC past the industrial estate supposed to do, especially traffic exiting in lane 1?

[davepoth]

vonhosen said:

You can extrapolate to absurdities, but it doesn't alter things.
268 doesn't permit you to pass on the left in those circumstances.
If however I was a Police officer present in such circumstances I'd be speaking to the tractor driver.
The majority of passing on the left I'd be speaking to the driver passing on the left though.

Interestingly the Government have provided a definition of congestion.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

The DfT said:

At its simplest, it can be explained in physical terms as the way in which vehicles interact to impede each others’ progress.

So the government say that if one vehicle impedes another vehicle's progress, there's congestion.

So in the 8mph tractor scenario above, I'd read that as saying that the road was congested. What do you reckon?

[vonhosen]

davepoth said:

vonhosen said:

You can extrapolate to absurdities, but it doesn't alter things.
268 doesn't permit you to pass on the left in those circumstances.
If however I was a Police officer present in such circumstances I'd be speaking to the tractor driver.
The majority of passing on the left I'd be speaking to the driver passing on the left though.

Interestingly the Government have provided a definition of congestion.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

The DfT said:

At its simplest, it can be explained in physical terms as the way in which vehicles interact to impede each others’ progress.

So the government say that if one vehicle impedes another vehicle's progress, there's congestion.

So in the 8mph tractor scenario above, I'd read that as saying that the road was congested. What do you reckon?

The government's definition goes a bit beyond what you quote

I reckon I'll leave it to the Police officer who sees people doing it to decide what they'll deem appropriate (I've a good idea how former colleagues view it).

[Carnage]

Middle lane hogging?

All I have to say is Drumroll, please...

[pim]

Passing on the left is working fine in the States.Roads maybe wider more lanes no less cars on the road.

Middle Lane Hogger.Good point.Driving from Leeds yesterday back to East Riding the majority of driving I did in the middle lane.About 70mph.Slow moving lorrys in the left lane cars overtaking me in the outside lane about 80 to 90 mph.

[routari]

pim said:

Passing on the left is working fine in the States.Roads maybe wider more lanes no less cars on the road.

Middle Lane Hogger.Good point.Driving from Leeds yesterday back to East Riding the majority of driving I did in the middle lane.About 70mph.Slow moving lorrys in the left lane cars overtaking me in the outside lane about 80 to 90 mph.

I've seen enough USA dashcam footage lately to know that multi lane roads in the States are absolutely awful. People pick a lane, pick a speed, and just camp there. You have to weave your way through to make any progress.

[browno]

routari said:

I've seen enough USA dashcam footage lately to know that multi lane roads in the States are absolutely awful. People pick a lane, pick a speed, and just camp there. You have to weave your way through to make any progress.

I think that this is part of the answer to why it is happening here - I go to the US several times a year, and see this behaviour. However, over there it does make sense to me - the highway limits are pretty well enforced at the roadside by police with speed guns, and the distances driven much bigger, so they will happily stick on the cruise at speed limit +5mph and disengage brain. As a result, the speed differential between vehicles is much reduced (especially in states where the trucks have the same limit as everyone else - in some cases up to 80mph), meaning overtakes can and do take a lot longer to achieve.

I think with the combination of increased speed enforcement, higher costs and (just as critically) wider fitment of cruise control to cars as standard, then people are also adopting this mentality. so with the speed difference between HGVs and the rest of the traffic being reasonably significant, but then everyone else travelling within a few mph of each other, means that there is more traffic wanting to consistently overtake the slow stuff, but that speeds of the traffic in lanes 2/3 are becoming closer to each other.

I would certainly say that I have seen a change in behaviour over the last decade or so where the speed of cars on the motorway has gone from anywhere from 50-100mph down to a narrower band more centred around 75-85mph - meaning it will take those cars much longer to get past each other.

[AH33]

It's not middle lane hogging if you're constantly overtaking people in L1, its the people who remain in L2 when L1 is free that wind people up. If anyone ever passes you on the left, you're doing it wrong.

[pim]

AH33 said:

It's not middle lane hogging if you're constantly overtaking people in L1, its the people who remain in L2 when L1 is free that wind people up. If anyone ever passes you on the left, you're doing it wrong.

You are correct if the left lane is clear I will always go back in that lane.So not a middle lane hogger.>

[pim]

routari.

Unless you have driven in the States dashcam footage is always different than experiencing it yourself.

I always found driving there relaxing even in busy traffic.It is strange when big trucks overtake you at speed.Undertaking is no problem it is expected.

Less aggressive driving and no two fingers.Maybe because Yanks can be armed and you don't know who you dealing with.

[Blakewater]

qska said:

Tell this guy as well (in the comments). I tried.....
Time code 7 min 03 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmmuhIbPGyQ&t=7...

This mentality of drivers not wanting to let others change lanes is part of the problem though. Had the driver of the black Mondeo in front moved over the camera guy would have probably closed the gap on him and not let him back out.

Had the dashcam driver and a few others moved in those who were passing on the left would have stayed out and refused to let those drivers in the inside lane back out again.

People would be happier to move in if they knew sticking their indicator on would result in them being allowed to move out rather than people bloody mindedly closing the door on them.

Of course, the danger of someone you allow to pull out then taking an age to overtake may make you reluctant.

[Nurburgsingh]

I've recently observed a new breed of MLH - here's the scenario.

Driving down the M1 well after rush hour so there is a lot less traffic about than usual. Lane 1 has its usual mix of trucks and vans all well spaced out. I've joined the road and slotted in to a space in L1. Lanes 2 and 3 are pretty much empty. I catch up to a line of trucks in a row. Checking L2 it's clear as far as I can see in front and there is one car about half a mile behind me, L3 is clear as far as the eye can see in both directions. I make the move into L2, L3 is still empty. The car in L2 is travelling faster then I am and is closing up behind.. L3 is still empty , the car then brakes and sits a car length off my rear. L3 is still empty - I mean there isn't anything visible in it forwards or backwards for at least a mile.
Once I've overtaken the trucks I return to L1 and the car that was on my bumper floors it and heads off to the next bumper to sit on.

So is there a now a load of road users that only use the middle lane regardless ?

[pim]

Unless the driver expected you to go to the third lane and he or she could undertake you?

Nowt as queer as folk.

[WJNB]

I too have just completed a 20 mile motorway journey entirely in Lane 2.
Lane 1 had many vehicles evenly spaced travelling at about 55mph & as I wanted to travel only 10mph or so faster I chose to stay in Lane 2. No way was I going to keep dipping in & out of Lane 1 to overtake every vehicle one by one.
Sure I had a few tailgaters attempting to police my driving & bully me into Lane 1, this despite the fact that Lane 3 was generally free of traffic allowing them to pass with ease.
So I was happy to be a middle lane hogger, cruise control set at 65mph, relaxed & enjoying an excellent radio programme & letting everybody get themselves unnecessarily stressed & irritated.
The answer is to get on with your own driving, stop judging others or attempting to correct what you see as errors. Mind your own business in other words.

[briang9]

AH33 said:

It's not middle lane hogging if you're constantly overtaking people in L1, its the people who remain in L2 when L1 is free that wind people up. If anyone ever passes you on the left, you're doing it wrong.

and again, well said that man....

once you overtake GTF back in...!!!

[pim]

Motorway driving should be part of the driving test.

All these excuses about living miles away from a major road is a nonsense.

[spookly]

WJNB said:

I too have just completed a 20 mile motorway journey entirely in Lane 2.
Lane 1 had many vehicles evenly spaced travelling at about 55mph & as I wanted to travel only 10mph or so faster I chose to stay in Lane 2. No way was I going to keep dipping in & out of Lane 1 to overtake every vehicle one by one.
Sure I had a few tailgaters attempting to police my driving & bully me into Lane 1, this despite the fact that Lane 3 was generally free of traffic allowing them to pass with ease.
So I was happy to be a middle lane hogger, cruise control set at 65mph, relaxed & enjoying an excellent radio programme & letting everybody get themselves unnecessarily stressed & irritated.
The answer is to get on with your own driving, stop judging others or attempting to correct what you see as errors. Mind your own business in other words.

In a vehicle capable of 70mph in a 70mph limit it is, IMHO, a bit antisocial going 65mph in lane 2 if there is no need to be going that slow. You are deliberately holding up traffic behind and reducing a motorway to a 1 lane road because you are too lazy to change lane and don't want to go 5-10mph slower yourself.

[Blakewater]

Nurburgsingh said:

I've recently observed a new breed of MLH - here's the scenario.

Driving down the M1 well after rush hour so there is a lot less traffic about than usual. Lane 1 has its usual mix of trucks and vans all well spaced out. I've joined the road and slotted in to a space in L1. Lanes 2 and 3 are pretty much empty. I catch up to a line of trucks in a row. Checking L2 it's clear as far as I can see in front and there is one car about half a mile behind me, L3 is clear as far as the eye can see in both directions. I make the move into L2, L3 is still empty. The car in L2 is travelling faster then I am and is closing up behind.. L3 is still empty , the car then brakes and sits a car length off my rear. L3 is still empty - I mean there isn't anything visible in it forwards or backwards for at least a mile.
Once I've overtaken the trucks I return to L1 and the car that was on my bumper floors it and heads off to the next bumper to sit on.

So is there a now a load of road users that only use the middle lane regardless ?

Switch on adaptive cruise control, switch off brain and let the car do the driving.

I passed an Angry Dad type today with his family in a Vauxhal Zafira who was quite happily pootling along in the middle lane. A little further on I came up behind a cluster of traffic overtaking a mix of HGVs and caravans in lanes one and two, headed by someone who wouldn't switch his cruise control from 65mph to get on with his overtake.

Angry Dad enters the outside lane further back, tailgates a couple of people out of his way and starts tailgating me. No thought for letting those people back out if the outside lane speeds up, despite the fact they've just overtaken him. We're all making progress, albeit slowly, in the outside lane and I'm staying alongside gaps before I have a clear run to get ahead of the next vehicle in the middle lane because I don't want to linger alongside vehicles and get pinned against the central reservation if someone doesn't see me when they move out.

When the traffic clears I resume the speed at which I overtook Angry Dad, but he still has to pass me to try and prove I was holding him up. I move to the middle lane and he sits in the outside lane behind me like my wingman until a van moves out in front of me and he uses a downhill stretch to get past. Once in front he slows because he doesn't like going that fast and I pass him again.

Further on, I move over to exit the motorway and, just to get in front again, he passes me and cuts through a closely packed line of traffic straight from the middle lane to the sliproad. Everyone else is driving safely and making allowances for other traffic and he's greatly increasing his speed, sitting in the outside lane when he can't overtake, taking risks with his family and conflicting with other drivers because he thinks people have passed him and slowed down just to annoy him and a bit of a slow down in the progress of traffic is justification for him to aggressively police his idea of lane discipline which involves everyone else having to part like the Red Sea for him.

[briang9]

WJNB said:

I too have just completed a 20 mile motorway journey entirely in Lane 2.
Lane 1 had many vehicles evenly spaced travelling at about 55mph & as I wanted to travel only 10mph or so faster I chose to stay in Lane 2. No way was I going to keep dipping in & out of Lane 1 to overtake every vehicle one by one.
Sure I had a few tailgaters attempting to police my driving & bully me into Lane 1, this despite the fact that Lane 3 was generally free of traffic allowing them to pass with ease.
So I was happy to be a middle lane hogger, cruise control set at 65mph, relaxed & enjoying an excellent radio programme & letting everybody get themselves unnecessarily stressed & irritated.
The answer is to get on with your own driving, stop judging others or attempting to correct what you see as errors. Mind your own business in other words.