Does anyone change gear anymore

[Stickyfinger]

BUT: you can enjoy driving an Auto as well. Smooth and stress free is a skill as well.

[dvenman]

Stickyfinger said:

BUT: you can enjoy driving an Auto as well. Smooth and stress free is a skill as well.

Indeed - I was driving a Ford Transit 15-seater van the other week (in the US, auto box with 6 speeds) on mountain roads and half the fun for me was using the manual geare selection to control speed in snow, or on the downhill bits with vehicles in front. No-one noticed (or at least they didn't complain) and the gear changes the box made were lovely and smooth.

[tgr]

I am very used to manuals and much prefer them - most recently in a 2.8l six cylinder E46. I now have an automatic, which is fine for traffic, but dull.

Any tips on how I should get the most out of it? Should I keep it in manual mode when cornering to avoid it changing unexpectedly or does the gearchange in an automatic not destabilise the car in the same way it would a manual?

Interested in your observations

[TurboHatchback]

tgr said:

I am very used to manuals and much prefer them - most recently in a 2.8l six cylinder E46. I now have an automatic, which is fine for traffic, but dull.

Any tips on how I should get the most out of it? Should I keep it in manual mode when cornering to avoid it changing unexpectedly or does the gearchange in an automatic not destabilise the car in the same way it would a manual?

Interested in your observations

I don't know about the E46 but most decent modern autos won't upshift when cornering above a certain threshold, my old Audi certainly used to hold the gear until you straightened up. Unless you are flat out on the limit (which you shouldn't be on the road) then a smooth seamless auto upshift isn't going to cause you any trouble during a corner. I would suggest just putting it in D when you depart, back in P when you arrive and otherwise just let it do its thing.

[mondeomk4]

I feel a manual gearbox gives me the control over the power and speed that I want.
I do feel able to use it. I feel an auto box removes some of this even a 'smart' one.

Having started driving in the 90s with a classic 70s car it is a feeling I miss with auto cars.
For me it is not about getting from A-B but for the experience of driving that I prefer a manual.

[OGR4M]

One of my biggest bragging points about my own driving (shared with my dad, who taught me to drive way back when) is that I can drive a manual and, irrelevant of the road, car, or conditions, I can have all of the passengers asleep before the end of the journey (perhaps there's a monoxide leak in the cabin...)

To coin a cliche "it's not what you drive, it's how you drive it", however, having said all of that, I'm well and truly fed up of changing gear on my commute, and my search for a new car is filled exclusively with automatics... perhaps OP is right after all.

[Len Woodman]

Oh dear the auto disease is begging to show in the UK!

26 years ago I bought my first company car here in Australia. I went to a Holden dealer and he started to write down 'my' order saying, "That'll be a Commodore (poor copy of Vauxhall Senator), air-con, auto.............." I stopped him and said I wanted a manual. "Nobody drives a manual ...... " he started to reply. I got up and started to walk out. He said, "Wazza matter?" I said, "I'm nobody so I won't be buying from you!" and left. It took me three weeks and about six dealerships to get what I wanted. BMW currently have no new manuals in Australia. I enquired last week and was told it would take about six weeks to get one. "Have you tried the BMW automated manual?" - "YES, that's why I don't want one!". Subaru are offering free auto-upgrades - because they don't have any manuals.

I think there's about 84% autos here, second to the US. All my company vehicles including 26tonne trucks are auto.

Safety wise I look at it this way - the UK has a high level of manual vehicle use and a low level of crashes. Australia and the US have a high level of crashes and a low level of manual vehicle use. Most drivers here brake too late for hazards! After 29 years of 'study' I believe this is because of drivers being weaned on autos (and a poor driving test regime). My 16 year old daughter is learning to drive on my Astra 2.2SRi manual. She is the only one in her circle of friends learning manual, most don't know what a manual is. Most driving schools including LGVs have only autos, so most truck drivers under 40 have auto only, few of us left with "Road ranger" (crash) gearbox validity.

Len, Sydney.

[Ahbefive]

Autos are for people that don't like cars or driving, old people and women. If you want fun then manual it is.

[p1esk]

Ahbefive said:

Autos are for people that don't like cars or driving, old people and women. If you want fun then manual it is.

I'm not going to disagree with that, although those who appreciate the latest (and apparently very sophisticated) automatics might quarrel with you a bit.

Most of the cars I've owned have been manual, and I've always been completely happy with them, although we did have some automatic Jaguars in the family between about 1981 and 1995. For the past 16 years and 200,000 miles I've had a Peugeot 406 HDi, and although it was no great performer, it was reasonably civilised (for a diesel) and the fuel economy was exceedingly good. I was also very happy with the ride and handling, and the gearbox. I was hoping it would see me through to the end of my driving days, but unfortunately the tinworm was killing it off, so the Pug. has now been replaced with a 2003 Lexus GS300. This, for those who may not know the model, is a four door saloon with a three litre straight six petrol engine, automatic transmission and rear wheel drive. I'm especially pleased about the rear wheel drive, but at this stage I'm not finding it as nice in the suspension and steering department as the 406.

The Lexus currently has 235/45 ZR 17 tyres and I don't like them. There is too much tyre noise from the front end, which may be due to an odd wear pattern and possible misalignement, which will need to be dealt with; and the ride is a bit hard, which I'm partly blaming on the low profile tyres. By comparison, the 406 was on 195/65 R 15 tyres, and it seems to me that these, allied to a slightly more supple suspension, gave the 406 a nicer blend of comfort and handling than I'm currently getting from the Lexus. Anyhow, I'm going to put the Lexus on 225/55 R 16 tyres (which were an option on this model) and I'm expecting these will suit me better. Also, if I can get the turns per mile figures for the various tyre options, I might be able to cure the ridiculous speedometer errors - it over-reads by rather too much.

Finally, coming back to the original point, I do feel that the loss of the manual gearbox has taken away something quite significant from the overall driving process, but I'll live with that in exchange for the greater quietness and refinement of the Lexus.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[vsonix]

I've just returned from a long stay in New Zealand and frankly am amazed how few people even hold a full manual license over there. Stick shift cars probably account for 20% of overall road users. I don't know that many people who habitually buy/drive new cars but if I were to walk down my road here in Devon I'd say out of 30 cars parked on the street maybe 5 of them would be 2-pedallers. So I'd say in the UK we are still much more into our manuals than elsewhere.

[p1esk]

One thing I'm noticing with the automatic transmission Lexus is that I can not bring the car to a halt without a slight jerk at the very end.

This wasn't a problem at all with manual transmission as I would declutch two or three seconds before finally stopping, and in this case the engine was no longer pulling the car along.

Any tips on how to stop an automatic, and avoid the slight jerk at the end?

...and I'm not slipping into N in order to do it, though I know this would achieve the desired result. For a short stop the transmission will remain in D.

[Stickyfinger]

p1esk said:

One thing I'm noticing with the automatic transmission Lexus is that I can not bring the car to a halt without a slight jerk at the very end.

This wasn't a problem at all with manual transmission as I would declutch two or three seconds before finally stopping, and in this case the engine was no longer pulling the car along.

Any tips on how to stop an automatic, and avoid the slight jerk at the end?

...and I'm not slipping into N in order to do it, though I know this would achieve the desired result. For a short stop the transmission will remain in D.

So, you are one of these auto drivers who sit with your foot on the brake blinding me behind you then

If it has miles on it then give the Box an oil change even if it is "sealed for life".

[Vipers]

Stickyfinger said:

p1esk said:

One thing I'm noticing with the automatic transmission Lexus is that I can not bring the car to a halt without a slight jerk at the very end.

This wasn't a problem at all with manual transmission as I would declutch two or three seconds before finally stopping, and in this case the engine was no longer pulling the car along.

Any tips on how to stop an automatic, and avoid the slight jerk at the end?

...and I'm not slipping into N in order to do it, though I know this would achieve the desired result. For a short stop the transmission will remain in D.

So, you are one of these auto drivers who sit with your foot on the brake blinding me behind you then

If it has miles on it then give the Box an oil change even if it is "sealed for life".

Get a Volvo, mine certainly doesn't jerk when it stops.

[rainmakerraw]

p1esk said:

One thing I'm noticing with the automatic transmission Lexus is that I can not bring the car to a halt without a slight jerk at the very end.

This wasn't a problem at all with manual transmission as I would declutch two or three seconds before finally stopping, and in this case the engine was no longer pulling the car along.

Any tips on how to stop an automatic, and avoid the slight jerk at the end?

...and I'm not slipping into N in order to do it, though I know this would achieve the desired result. For a short stop the transmission will remain in D.

My DSG is similar. It doesn't really disengage the clutch(es) until you're at a hard stop with the brake firmly depressed. As such any attempt to bleed off the brake pressure at the last second of a stop, for smoothness, just results in the car assuming you want to drive on and nudging forward again precisely when you don't want it to. The alternatives are (1) a 'hard' stop without easing off the brake at the end, which gives the characteristic jerk as the weight unsettles, or (2) brake twice - sort of.

• Gentle prod to take up the slack and start the car's weight tipping forwards
• Firm up the pressure
• Ease off a bit earlier than usual
• Almost lift off on final approach to your intended stop line, but then firm up the brake again (i.e. from ~2mph to stopped)

Obviously the first three steps are the usual three phase braking, you're just adding on the extra step at the end. The very slow speed of the 'final' brake means the car doesn't jerk. It sounds convoluted but it's the easiest, smoothest and safest way around it that I've found to date. It's imperceptible unless you're looking for it, but it definitely helps. Easier to demonstrate than type out, I have to say. Have an experiment (away from traffic!).

[Nigel Worc's]

I only really like the proper autos, the torque converter ones.

I switch between a manual van, manual motorhome (with a cable clutch !), and a centrifugal auto in the wifes smart car (it is modern enough to have the stop it rolling back assist, whatever they call that).

[Stickyfinger]

Vipers said:

Get a Volvo, mine certainly doesn't jerk when it stops.

However, not a "Volvo" box I bet...

[GadgeS3C]

Len Woodman said:

Oh dear the auto disease is begging to show in the UK!

Safety wise I look at it this way - the UK has a high level of manual vehicle use and a low level of crashes. Australia and the US have a high level of crashes and a low level of manual vehicle use. Most drivers here brake too late for hazards! After 29 years of 'study' I believe this is because of drivers being weaned on autos (and a poor driving test regime). My 16 year old daughter is learning to drive on my Astra 2.2SRi manual. She is the only one in her circle of friends learning manual, most don't know what a manual is. Most driving schools including LGVs have only autos, so most truck drivers under 40 have auto only, few of us left with "Road ranger" (crash) gearbox validity.

Len, Sydney.

Sadly true I fear.

Mrs Gadge has an auto licence. Have tried to get her driving a manual and the biggest challenge is getting her to start reacting to hazards early enough.

I enjoy the challenge of diving an auto smoothly but get so bored driving modern cars. Too many years riding motorbikes, I enjoy the cognitive workload of manuals and find driving dull without it. I hate it when I find I'm losing concentration.

So few modern cars that involve the driver - why I love old ones!

[Yipper]

Semi-manual paddles, like VW DSG, are so fast, smooth and driver-friendly, it is easy to see why manuals are dying out for daily cars and trucks. It is likely manual gearboxes will become the sole domain of classic supercars and niche sportscars for weekend toys, like Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, Lotus, etc.

[alpha channel]

My little two car set up are polar opposites, on the one hand I've my recently acquired XK, big old bugger for what is essentially a two seater (bought in traditional barge style, sight unseen barring dealer photo's). My first auto box and you know what? I really like the car and really look forward to driving it, it's smooth, looks fantastic and is really nice to be in, three weeks after buying it someone offered to buy it off me which made me realise just how much I love the car.

My other car, a Rover 200 Coupe, similarly puts a smile on my face and I really look forward to driving that as well (I try to only use the old girl in the dry), though for completely different reasons. The Rover is light and nippy, the rev happy VVC engine singing as I accelerate but it's the shear joy of getting the combination of changing gear, lifting off the brake and accelerating as I go around corners that really lifts my heart.

The art of using a manual gearbox is gradually being lost as more and more people simply look at cars as a fridge with wheels, a disposable item with the same level of care, to be ditched as soon as something (even minor) goes wrong.

[Vipers]

Stickyfinger said:

Vipers said:

Get a Volvo, mine certainly doesn't jerk when it stops.

However, not a "Volvo" box I bet...

S80 2002.