current state of motorway driving

[Tom8]

Interesting observations, I think on A and B roads technology and sat nav have not helped where minor roads now become rat runs.

One thing I have notices is white van drivers seem to have transformed into driving like pensioners. Is this because of cost of fuel so they now look for more efficiency and lower cost?

[CLK-GTR]

911hope said:

Thanks.

Big question is fatalities per mile travelled. Would be very surprised if motorway traffic has not increased by less than 14% in 10 years.

I will read report, when get the chance.

That's contained in the data too; a 4% increase in motorway fatalities per km driven over the 10 years. Again, must be remembered how much safer cars have become during that time and how average speeds have reduced. The cameras being the reason is only my hunch but something has certainly changed.

Edited by CLK-GTR on Friday 8th March 19:23

[911hope]

CLK-GTR said:

911hope said:

Thanks.

Big question is fatalities per mile travelled. Would be very surprised if motorway traffic has not increased by less than 14% in 10 years.

I will read report, when get the chance.

That's contained in the data too; a 4% increase in motorway fatalities per km driven over the 10 years. Again, must be remembered how much safer cars have become during that time and how average speeds have reduced. The cameras being the reason is only my hunch but something has certainly changed.

Edited by CLK-GTR on Friday 8th March 19:23

Interesting. Traffic density, smart motorways, road maintenance deterioration, cruise control, smart phones usage and touch screen user interfaces are other possibilities.

There ought to be information on accident rates in camara controlled sections (eg. Variable sped limits) occurrence (though not necessarily in public domain). All lanes limited to 50 leads to cars side by side for long periods of time, which must increase risk. An error cannot be mitigated by another action, since distances are so small.

[911hope]

CLK-GTR said:

That's contained in the data too; a 4% increase in motorway fatalities per km driven over the 10 years. Again, must be remembered how much safer cars have become during that time and how average speeds have reduced. The cameras being the reason is only my hunch but something has certainly changed.

Edited by CLK-GTR on Friday 8th March 19:23

The trend in casualties is very much in the downward direction. This should be a better set of data to base judgements on. Fatalities is a surprisingly small number and hence can be radically and influenced by a small number of incidents. Eg. Minibus instead of a car, accident on 1 January instead of 31 Dec.

The volatility is there to see in the graph of fatalities per billion miles.

[CLK-GTR]

911hope said:

The trend in casualties is very much in the downward direction. This should be a better set of data to base judgements on. Fatalities is a surprisingly small number and hence can be radically and influenced by a small number of incidents. Eg. Minibus instead of a car, accident on 1 January instead of 31 Dec.

The volatility is there to see in the graph of fatalities per billion miles.

You can see elsewhere the numbers split by user type. All are significantly down, except for cars. And motorcycles too but that's to be expected.

For some reason more people are dying in motorway car crashes now.

[flatlandsman]

I am not blind I am fully aware why smaller A and B roads have become rat runs, mainly to chop off slightly longer motorway or dual routes that add a few minutes to a journey, and sat nav also obviously plays a part, I cant imagine many truck drivers select motorway only for their route they will nearly all select most direct.

There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but they are forced by law as are vans to drive supposedly at a slower speed limit, so 40 in a 50 etc, this adds a lot more time to a journey for everyone else, as the damn things are not always easy to pass.

I live in an area near to two major truck routes the A43 and M40 and there is an endless rat run on several roads that have now become severely damaged as a result with also occasional accidents there from trucks.

These routes save a matter of minutes on a journey, nothing more, but I think I know what the reason is, there are no roundabouts, on the major routes there are probably 6 or 7 roundabouts, these slow a truck hugely and add far more time than toddling down a B road at 30 or 40.

[dxg]

Glosphil said:

I sat in a road safety meeting scheduled to last 2 hours. When after 1hr50min only speeding had been discussed I asked when we were going to discuss the causes of at least the other 85% of RTCs I just get blank looks. I then quoted my old physics teacher, "Evaluate what is important; don't make important what is easy to measure". I doubt a single person in the room saw the relevence of the quote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy

[croyde]

CLK-GTR said:

That's contained in the data too; a 4% increase in motorway fatalities per km driven over the 10 years. Again, must be remembered how much safer cars have become during that time and how average speeds have reduced. The cameras being the reason is only my hunch but something has certainly changed.

Edited by CLK-GTR on Friday 8th March 19:23

The now stringent limits and cameras everywhere has caused the traffic to bunch up with everyone driving too close.

There's barely any speed differential between lanes so the feeling of speed/danger is massively decreased.

Add infotainment, comfy quiet cars etc then you have drivers that are far too relaxed and less alert.

When they are not gridlocked, motorways are just massive carparks travelling at 65mph.

In my opinion I believe there are now far more 'minor' accidents due to inattention with injuries reduced thanks to crumple zones, air bags etc.

But these 'minor' accidents paralyse the roads, causing more congestion, frustration and thus more accidents.

As a van courier in the 80s I would regularly get my diesel Transit from London to Liverpool/Manchester in 3 hours.

In the past 10 years that same journey is 4 hours at best and 10 hours at worst.

[heebeegeetee]

911hope said:

Smint said:

Some of us who actually drive trucks for a living don't approve of or take part in the so called elephant racing, nor do we tailgate, we actually try to apply some sort of professionalsim to our work, we're embarrassed by those who can't differentiate between driving a car and driving a truck, but never let the chance of a good generalising go by eh.

Bunching serious endless tailgating and elephant racing wasn't an issue until speed limiters came in, in due course some sort of electronic road related speed limiting will come in for cars as well, and then all of those moaning can show us exactly how it should be done, so enjoy your reasonably uncontrolled motoring while you can.

You arn't going to enjoy it when you get to experience speed limiters for yourselves, and for those who think they'll be able to defeat it and carry on regardless, just like a truck that has a doctored limiter sticks out like a sore thumb a car capable of leaving the herd behind will also stand out, and true to form those who are stuck at the regulated limit will galdly shop (video record and send it in as requested by the office based traffic police) any miscreants to the authorities, and just as with trucks the penalties for having a doctored speed limiter will be unpleasant...the bankrupt govt of the day will be keen to extract large wedges plus licence removal punishments.

Glad to know there are some that don't tailgate or elephant race, but it seems that the many many do.

Granted that speed limiter are a contributory factor, but drivers should be making conscious choices when driving and when sped limiters lead them to make a bad choice it is still their fault. Similarly,doing what all the others do is still their fault.

When they have pulled into lane 3 of a motorway into the path of traffic that is 15mph faster, causing them to brake or change lane to avoid an accident, then they fail to overtake the lane 2 HGVs there are failing to overtake those in lane 1, does nothing go though their heads?

"Why am I obstructing the motorway to gain nothing"

This is somewhat new to me. It is not at all unusual for an overtakee to speed up or speed match an overtaking vehicle, irrespective of vehicle, but I didn't know it was the fault of the overtaker.

Many years ago I was a truck driver, I remember one occasion 3am, I was the only truck on that stretch of motorway, another truck enters a slip road to join, I move into L2 to let him join swiftly and safely, I get 2/3rds past him and he speed matches me, and there I am stuck, for miles.

I don't think that was my fault.

Cars joining m'ways and then speed matching the vehicles in lane 2 is *really* common. Quite often those in L2 have moved over to let them on.

[flatlandsman]

You or he could have throttled back for maybe 2 seconds, how bloody hard is that?

[Mozart21]

911hope said:

Has there really been a marked increase in serious accident rate, due to speed limits and speed cameras?

Source of this data would be interesting to see.

TryLincolnshire Road Safety partnership. It has focussed relentlessly on speed for both cars and motorbikes. Outcome, death and KSI more widely both up year on year. It does not seem to care about drivers on phones (see my village any day at school journey times), seatbelt usage nor anything else.

[blue_haddock]

Well we recently did 2000+ miles of driving in france and the drivers were just so much better than over here, but driving up the M1 on the way home i saw something that absolutely astounded me.

Silver mk6 golf in the middle lane doing about 55mph and being overtaken on both sides, as i go past (in outside lane) i couldnt believe my eyes when i saw the guy reading a booked whilst driving!

[carlo996]

The UK is only beaten by the US for idiots on the motorway. At least there you are free to just pass people, but it’s chaos. The only choice is to ignore the middle lane muppets and get around them in either lane and leave them to it. The US does allow turning on a red light though, which is very civilised.

[ChocolateFrog]

It's amazing how much difference the car you drive makes.

When I'm in the Duster every Audi and BMW driver attempts to bully you out of the way. You'll be sat in a line of traffic doing 85 and they either sit a car length off your bumper or undertake and cut back in. When traffic does inevitably thin out you find out they want to do 86.

[Fleckers]

carlo996 said:

The UK is only beaten by the US for idiots on the motorway. At least there you are free to just pass people, but it’s chaos. The only choice is to ignore the middle lane muppets and get around them in either lane and leave them to it. The US does allow turning on a red light though, which is very civilised.

i totally agree

if I am on the inside and the middle lane hog is going slower I am not changing speed or going from the inside to the outside and back to the inside to go past the hogger, i just keep going and wait for the hooting, light flashing hand signals etc which is becoming less frequent now as they seem to be in a world of their own and dont notice

[Guybrush]

Glosphil said:

flatlandsman said:

I believe it is since the start of 4 lane motorways, ever since that time for me the standard of driving has become almost a free for all, I see people sitting in lane three on their own, people who just move over to lane 2 or 3 without thought as soon as they enter the motorway.

I daily see lorries using totally unsuitable B roads to save a few minutes on a journey rather than save the roads, increase noise and make it slower for regular traffic, all so they can get to a depot 5 minutes earlier than wait 2 hours to get tipped, utterly selfish, ignorant and rude. But you cant say much because lorries are the saviours of our lazy good for noting lives

The standards are awful, some of it is immigration, people who dont know or understand the rules and standards, some of it is poor training, some of it is just effing laziness, but all of it causes accidents ,yet all the authorities care about everywhere is speeding, they care about Nothing, NOTHING else. when this causes accidents too, and needs considerably less spent on it for improvement.

I sat in a road safety meeting scheduled to last 2 hours. When after 1hr50min only speeding had been discussed I asked when we were going to discuss the causes of at least the other 85% of RTCs I just get blank looks. I then quoted my old physics teacher, "Evaluate what is important; don't make important what is easy to measure". I doubt a single person in the room saw the relevence of the quote.

Road safety meeting! No wonder driving standards are so low. Absolutely no interest in improving driving standards. The driver is only considered after a RTC; and then only to decide whether to prosecute or not. 'Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted' springs to mind.

Essentially, it's low intelligence 'thinking', unable to go beyond shallow thought processes - i.e speed is all, 'fast' is bad, slower is safer.

[pocketspring]

I remember the speed kills campaign.
"If you hit me at 30mph, I have an 80% per cent chance of living..." Etc
Surely it couldn't have been just me thinking if you're stepping onto a busy life road, maybe there should be a Running onto a busy road could well kill you campaign.

[dvenman]

pocketspring said:

Surely it couldn't have been just me thinking if you're stepping onto a busy life road, maybe there should be a Running onto a busy road could well kill you campaign.

For adults, perhaps. For youngsters and the elderly, maybe drivers should be anticipating their actions, as far as possible. And if we do it for the young and elderly, why not do it for every pedestrian?

[jamei303]

911hope said:

Smint said:

Some of us who actually drive trucks for a living don't approve of or take part in the so called elephant racing, nor do we tailgate, we actually try to apply some sort of professionalsim to our work, we're embarrassed by those who can't differentiate between driving a car and driving a truck, but never let the chance of a good generalising go by eh.

Bunching serious endless tailgating and elephant racing wasn't an issue until speed limiters came in, in due course some sort of electronic road related speed limiting will come in for cars as well, and then all of those moaning can show us exactly how it should be done, so enjoy your reasonably uncontrolled motoring while you can.

You arn't going to enjoy it when you get to experience speed limiters for yourselves, and for those who think they'll be able to defeat it and carry on regardless, just like a truck that has a doctored limiter sticks out like a sore thumb a car capable of leaving the herd behind will also stand out, and true to form those who are stuck at the regulated limit will galdly shop (video record and send it in as requested by the office based traffic police) any miscreants to the authorities, and just as with trucks the penalties for having a doctored speed limiter will be unpleasant...the bankrupt govt of the day will be keen to extract large wedges plus licence removal punishments.

Glad to know there are some that don't tailgate or elephant race, but it seems that the many many do.

Granted that speed limiter are a contributory factor, but drivers should be making conscious choices when driving and when sped limiters lead them to make a bad choice it is still their fault. Similarly,doing what all the others do is still their fault.

When they have pulled into lane 3 of a motorway into the path of traffic that is 15mph faster, causing them to brake or change lane to avoid an accident, then they fail to overtake the lane 2 HGVs there are failing to overtake those in lane 1, does nothing go though their heads?

"Why am I obstructing the motorway to gain nothing"

I think they don't think.

I have on occasion flashed prolonged elephant racers and have found more often than not one of them will tap the brakes and the overtaker will pull back in. Almost like they didn't realise what was going on around them.

[pocketspring]

dvenman said:

pocketspring said:

Surely it couldn't have been just me thinking if you're stepping onto a busy life road, maybe there should be a Running onto a busy road could well kill you campaign.

For adults, perhaps. For youngsters and the elderly, maybe drivers should be anticipating their actions, as far as possible. And if we do it for the young and elderly, why not do it for every pedestrian?

I did road safely at junior school.