Slip road merging, why is it so hard?
Discussion
aturnick54 said:
Why is it the job of the person who has priority to anticipate and take corrective action? The person that should be correcting by adjusting speed is the person who is joining the motorway.
The problem is that people now think that people must move over for them, and that they do not have to give way when joining a motorway or dual carriageway.
I think you’re the problem. The problem is that people now think that people must move over for them, and that they do not have to give way when joining a motorway or dual carriageway.
_Hoppers said:
Quote from Roadcraft - The Police Driver's Handbook (The book that the IAM and RoSPA also use)
“when you see a motorway exit, anticipate a slip road ahead and the possibility of traffic joining the motorway. If you are on the main carriageway, check your mirrors early and allow traffic to join the motorway by making slight adjustments your speed or changing lane”
Quote from DVSA - Safe Driving for Life
When you’re driving towards a junction, it’s important to scan well ahead to make sure that you’re aware of other road users joining or leaving the motorway: you may need to change lanes, if you can do so safely, to keep travelling at a steady speed
Agreed. It’s not even advanced driving. “when you see a motorway exit, anticipate a slip road ahead and the possibility of traffic joining the motorway. If you are on the main carriageway, check your mirrors early and allow traffic to join the motorway by making slight adjustments your speed or changing lane”
Quote from DVSA - Safe Driving for Life
When you’re driving towards a junction, it’s important to scan well ahead to make sure that you’re aware of other road users joining or leaving the motorway: you may need to change lanes, if you can do so safely, to keep travelling at a steady speed
PH, for people who struggle with life even more than their driving.
aturnick54 said:
The vehicle which had priority is the problem? And not the vehicle which failed to give way and almost drove into the side of another vehicle forcing them to slam on? 
Are you really this daft? When you see a slip road any normal driver will move over to help the cars entering the motorway. It’s not difficult and ordinarily you’d do the same if you saw a car coming up behind another and anticipated them needing to change lane. Alternatively you could be a f
king moron and herd them into braking, and in your case stand on ceremony not wanting to let someone merge because ‘you’re the priority’. Road captains like you are a total pain in the ass, you’re devoid of common sense and just screw the flow of traffic up. Get over yourself, stop being a muppet and take some pride in your road craft. aturnick54 said:
In the last sentence, I said that I drive all across Europe. Generally in other European countries people use all the available road space and don't hog lanes.
aturnick54 said:
Wills2 said:
You're right the standard can be poor, but you're right at the centre of it, you have a duty to drive in a manner that enables the smooth and safe passage of traffic and you're not doing that, by your own admission you're blocking other cars, then slamming your brakes on whilst flashing your lights and generally being a nuisance all at motorway speeds.
Book a lesson with an advanced instructor they will explain to you where you're going wrong.
I wasn't blocking, but continuing in a lane which I had priority in. There was enough room in front and behind me for the vehicle to merge into. I flashed my lights to draw attention to the fact I was there, as they seemed pretty oblivious.Book a lesson with an advanced instructor they will explain to you where you're going wrong.
Motorway lessons should be compulsory IMO. They need to teach people lane discipline and how to merge properly (slip roads and lane closures in particular)
It’s better to give a lift of the throttle to let them join.
Flashing lights is often mis-understood and I suspect you actually flashed in frustration but even if you didn’t they could have take it as aggressive behaviour.
carlo996 said:
aturnick54 said:
The vehicle which had priority is the problem? And not the vehicle which failed to give way and almost drove into the side of another vehicle forcing them to slam on?
Are you really this daft? When you see a slip road any normal driver will move over to help the cars entering the motorway. It’s not difficult and ordinarily you’d do the same if you saw a car coming up behind another and anticipated them needing to change lane. Alternatively you could be a fking moron and herd them into braking, and in your case stand on ceremony not wanting to let someone merge because ‘you’re the priority’. Road captains like you are a total pain in the ass, you’re devoid of common sense and just screw the flow of traffic up. Get over yourself, stop being a muppet and take some pride in your road craft. aturnick54 said:
In the last sentence, I said that I drive all across Europe. Generally in other European countries people use all the available road space and don't hog lanes.
It's nothing to do with being a road captain, if it isn't possible to move into lane two then don't just force your way out and fail to give way. You wouldn't just pull out of a T junction into the path of another car (although questionable whether some drivers would)
Caddyshack said:
Priority means that you are more important in that instance but it doesn’t mean a right to dominate the road and I think many people in cars confuse this as a "right of way’ that must be enforced over others.
It’s better to give a lift of the throttle to let them join.
Flashing lights is often mis-understood and I suspect you actually flashed in frustration but even if you didn’t they could have take it as aggressive behaviour.
Traffic joining should give way to traffic already on the motorway. In the same way that they should slow down (likely stop) at a T junction and give way to traffic on the main road. Pulling out into the path of a vehicle and forcing them to change speed or direction would result in a driving test fail and is dangerous driving. Far below the expected standard of a competent driver imo.It’s better to give a lift of the throttle to let them join.
Flashing lights is often mis-understood and I suspect you actually flashed in frustration but even if you didn’t they could have take it as aggressive behaviour.
In this case with the van, I had no choice but to brake to avoid a collision. Such a collision would likely find the van at fault (whether lane two was available or not) as the give way markings on the slip road are for the van.
aturnick54 said:
If they had any clue how to anticipate the flow of traffic on the motorway, there would be no need for them to brake. You match the speed, and accelerate or decelerate as necessary to fit into gaps. It isn't (supposed to be) rocket science.
It's nothing to do with being a road captain, if it isn't possible to move into lane two then don't just force your way out and fail to give way. You wouldn't just pull out of a T junction into the path of another car (although questionable whether some drivers would)
Yes it does, that’s what you are. What’s laughable is your pointing out others lack of anticipation but you cannot see your own. It's nothing to do with being a road captain, if it isn't possible to move into lane two then don't just force your way out and fail to give way. You wouldn't just pull out of a T junction into the path of another car (although questionable whether some drivers would)
Clearly there was room, as there was no crash, no mass hysteria and likely you perversely enjoy the process. Otherwise, like everyone else, you’d avoid it.
What do you drive?
aturnick54 said:
Caddyshack said:
Priority means that you are more important in that instance but it doesn’t mean a right to dominate the road and I think many people in cars confuse this as a "right of way’ that must be enforced over others.
It’s better to give a lift of the throttle to let them join.
Flashing lights is often mis-understood and I suspect you actually flashed in frustration but even if you didn’t they could have take it as aggressive behaviour.
Traffic joining should give way to traffic already on the motorway. In the same way that they should slow down (likely stop) at a T junction and give way to traffic on the main road. Pulling out into the path of a vehicle and forcing them to change speed or direction would result in a driving test fail and is dangerous driving. Far below the expected standard of a competent driver imo.It’s better to give a lift of the throttle to let them join.
Flashing lights is often mis-understood and I suspect you actually flashed in frustration but even if you didn’t they could have take it as aggressive behaviour.
In this case with the van, I had no choice but to brake to avoid a collision. Such a collision would likely find the van at fault (whether lane two was available or not) as the give way markings on the slip road are for the van.
Edited by Caddyshack on Tuesday 16th April 20:07
carlo996 said:
Yes it does, that’s what you are. What’s laughable is your pointing out others lack of anticipation but you cannot see your own.
Clearly there was room, as there was no crash, no mass hysteria and likely you perversely enjoy the process. Otherwise, like everyone else, you’d avoid it.
What do you drive?
There was only room because I had to brake to avoid a collision. This would be a driving test fail.Clearly there was room, as there was no crash, no mass hysteria and likely you perversely enjoy the process. Otherwise, like everyone else, you’d avoid it.
What do you drive?
As I said a couple of pages back, drivers on the continent know how to merge properly. I have never experienced this poor standard of driving anywhere but the UK.
Caddyshack said:
Not noticing the car forcing you to slow could also be a fail too. You are right about the law, giving way etc but having to brake like that means you have not anticipated that stupid people think they can just pull out and a car matching your speed on a slip road are very, very likely to just pull out. I often have to remind myself not to let my Ego drive the car….as reg local says about other (stupid) drivers "they know not what they do"
If you cause another road user to change speed or direction then you will likely fail your test. Pulling out on someone or cutting them off when you do not have priority would very much result in a test failure.Edited by Caddyshack on Tuesday 16th April 20:07
I anticipate that any competent driver would either accelerate or decelerate to merge into the available gaps, not blindly follow alongside and expect other drivers to adjust their speed instead. Of course, if I can move to lane two, I do so. But unfortunately this is not always possible and should not be expected.
I never expect anybody to move into lane two when I'm joining a motorway, this allows me to anticipate where I will merge and the appropriate speed for doing so. It leaves me wondering what actually goes through some drivers heads when they are on a slip road, and how much education they've had on the correct procedure of merging.
_Hoppers said:
Where is it stated that these are give way marking?
I stand corrected that these markings explicitly mean give way. However rule 259 of the HWC states"give priority to traffic already on the motorway"
To me this suggests that at the point you are supposed to merge, you should give way to traffic already on the motorway.
CT05 Nose Cone said:
I always move into lane 2 if possible, far easier than trying to anticipate if a car on the slip road will try and join in front or behind me.
Me too. If I'm on a busy motorway I move into L2 when I'm passing the exit slip so I don't find myself with a car trying to merge from my left and someone on my right preventing me from moving over if I've left it till the last minute.My main gripe is trying to merge on a dual carriageway as there's no hard shoulder to bail you out if you run out of slip road. It amazes me that there's all this talk of letting people merge on motorways but no equivalent advice for DCs, even though the need is arguably greater on a DC.
There's a DC through my town with really short slip roads. It's a complete nigthmare trying to join if there's someone in L1 staring dead ahead, like you're not there if they can't see you. If you've matched your speed to the traffic and noone lets you merge you're screwed because you can't stop by the end of the slip. I end up coming down the sliproad at about 35 and then nailing it at the last moment when I'm sure there's a gap.
aturnick54 said:
I wasn't blocking, but continuing in a lane which I had priority in. There was enough room in front and behind me for the vehicle to merge into. I flashed my lights to draw attention to the fact I was there, as they seemed pretty oblivious.
Motorway lessons should be compulsory IMO. They need to teach people lane discipline and how to merge properly (slip roads and lane closures in particular)
If they were compulsory then you’d have learned that moving into lane 2 well ahead of the slip road joining is a sensible and considerate thing to do.Motorway lessons should be compulsory IMO. They need to teach people lane discipline and how to merge properly (slip roads and lane closures in particular)
The OP is, I believe, technically correct in that it’s on the traffic joining the motorway to do so in a way that’s safe.
They’re also clearly st at driving, as evidenced by the idea that they can get “stuck” in lane 2 if they move over, and their failure to anticipate or accommodate other road users by driving defensively.
They’re also clearly s
t at driving, as evidenced by the idea that they can get “stuck” in lane 2 if they move over, and their failure to anticipate or accommodate other road users by driving defensively. aturnick54 said:
The problem as well with moving over is that they often like to match your speed then in lane one and leave you stuck in lane two.
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