Slip road merging, why is it so hard?

[Super Sonic]

soupdragon1 said:

Strange thread. It's supposed to be about general standards of driving and people just pull the OPs driving apart instead.

The OP is talking common sense here. If people on the road are driving poorly, do we all just pander to their poor skills by rolling out the red carpet by giving way and reinforcing their impression that it's the correct procedure?
[[Mitigating other people's bad driving is hardly rolling out the red carpet. It's avoiding a collision]]
It appears that this is the theme of the thread and I can't agree at all. If you sense any danger then of course you make sure that you take corrective action. But in a situation like the OP is describing, I would look across at the driver and gesture for them to go in front on me, but I wouldn't change my speed. Ie, there is plenty of room, get your speed to the appropriate level mate, and that's your job in this scenario.[[ Yet the op thought the appropriate course of action was to flash his lights at the van that was beside him(!), then slam on the brakes]]

If I feel they're completely incapable of carrying our such a simple task, I would slow down, let them in and then overtake them shortly after. Always best to have bad drivers behind you rather than in front.[[Are you sure about that? If you've got a bad driver behind you, he's controlling the distance between you, and if you slow down suddenly, he may drive into you. If he's in front, you can see what he's doing and you can maintain a safe gap]]
It's not hard to merge into a motorway but we have to appreciate some people might struggle.All the more reason to leave a space

Each scenario is different though. Rush hour, that dodgy bumper to bumper type motorway at a fairly high speed, I would be defensive mode and be on high alert to merging traffic and I would drive much more passively, like most people.[[Anticipating other drivers is not passive, reacting to them is]]

But to say that in general driving, the OP should roll out the red carpet for the merging car is wrong in my opinion. It just reinforces their bad driving. They just need to merge like a normal person merges.

[Super Sonic]

JackJarvis said:

I can't think of an occasion in 25 years of driving where I've had this issue. It's probably because j work on the assumption that every other driver is a useless idiot, until they prove otherwise. I minimise risk and make space for people. Forget about what 'should' happen, that means nothing.

This.

[Ken_Code]

aturnick54 said:

There was only room because I had to brake to avoid a collision. This would be a driving test fail.

As I said a couple of pages back, drivers on the continent know how to merge properly. I have never experienced this poor standard of driving anywhere but the UK.

It would be, yes, but as you were presumably not on your test it wasn’t.

Or is this another hypothetical that you are about to change into what actually happened?

[Ken_Code]

aturnick54 said:

Considerate, but not always possible when there's a vehicle already there.

Does your car not have the ability to turn off cruise control and adjust your speed?

You are genuinely coming across as the worst sort of driver here, arrogant, pompous and unable to take account of what’s coming up ahead.

[aturnick54]

Ken_Code said:

Does your car not have the ability to turn off cruise control and adjust your speed?

You are genuinely coming across as the worst sort of driver here, arrogant, pompous and unable to take account of what’s coming up ahead.

So it is now the responsibility of the driver in lane one to adjust their speed for vehicles joining? If someone is dawdling along the slip road at 50mph am I expected to slow down to let them in?

I must have missed that part when I was taught to drive. In heavier traffic it will only cause more congestion.

I do find it bizarre in this thread that people are making excuses for other drivers poor planning when merging onto a motorway.

[Riley Blue]

aturnick54 said:

Riley Blue said:

This; poor observation on the part of the OP.

And if I had already observed my mirror and found lane two to be obstructed by another vehicle?

It wouldn't have been obstructed if you'd taken the appropriate action soon enough, i.e. when you first noticed you were approaching a junction.

[Pica-Pica]

Riley Blue said:

aturnick54 said:

Riley Blue said:

This; poor observation on the part of the OP.

And if I had already observed my mirror and found lane two to be obstructed by another vehicle?

It wouldn't have been obstructed if you'd taken the appropriate action soon enough, i.e. when you first noticed you were approaching a junction.

I’d give up trying, Riley. Clearly the Advanced Driving forum is too big a step for some.

Hint to OP. The advanced sign of the impending slip road will show whether it joins the main carriageway directly, or whether it forms its own additional lane.

[Forester1965]

aturnick54 said:

So it is now the responsibility of the driver in lane one to adjust their speed for vehicles joining? If someone is dawdling along the slip road at 50mph am I expected to slow down to let them in?

...

I do find it bizarre in this thread that people are making excuses for other drivers poor planning when merging onto a motorway.

It's obvious that some people will drive poorly as they enter from a slip road. We all know it. Nobody is excusing poor driving but we should all expect it.

The reason some people struggle with those joining is because they either don't anticipate the poor driving about to happen or they do but refuse to accomodate it.

[JackJarvis]

aturnick54 said:

I do find it bizarre in this thread that people are making excuses for other drivers poor planning when merging onto a motorway.

If you go with the assumption that other drivers will always do the right thing then you'll constantly find yourself in trouble. Other drivers displaying a lack of skill and awareness is a given, we all see it daily and it's never going to change.

You need to focus on your own driving, assume the worst and minimise risk where you can.

[Pica-Pica]

Forester1965 said:

It's obvious that some people will drive poorly as they enter from a slip road. We all know it. Nobody is excusing poor driving but we should all expect it.

The reason some people struggle with those joining is because they either don't anticipate the poor driving about to happen or they do but refuse to accomodate it.

The added risk is that as the driver (car A) on the carriageway approaches the entry point, the angle of approach will mean that car A will have a high risk of being for an extended period in the blind spot of the driver entering (car B).
Others can huff and puff, and talk about priorities, but the situation is that a little bit of common sense and adjustment avoids the whole pain of a collision, road rage, or worse.
A few seconds of graciousness avoid the rest of the journey being filled with rage and indignation.

[STe_rsv4]

aturnick54 said:

So it is now the responsibility of the driver in lane one to adjust their speed for vehicles joining? If someone is dawdling along the slip road at 50mph am I expected to slow down to let them in?

I must have missed that part when I was taught to drive. In heavier traffic it will only cause more congestion.

I do find it bizarre in this thread that people are making excuses for other drivers poor planning when merging onto a motorway.

If you are doing 70mph in lane 1 and the approaching vehicle on the slip road is doing 50mph, then you should have no problem letting them drop in behind you if you have been observing and correctly reading the road ahead non?
If you thought they were going to drop in in front of you at that speed, you would have already taken the necessary precaution of checking to see if lane 2 was free and moving across like any normal / considerate driver would do non?

[soupdragon1]

aturnick54 said:

Ken_Code said:

Does your car not have the ability to turn off cruise control and adjust your speed?

You are genuinely coming across as the worst sort of driver here, arrogant, pompous and unable to take account of what’s coming up ahead.

So it is now the responsibility of the driver in lane one to adjust their speed for vehicles joining? If someone is dawdling along the slip road at 50mph am I expected to slow down to let them in?

I must have missed that part when I was taught to drive. In heavier traffic it will only cause more congestion.

I do find it bizarre in this thread that people are making excuses for other drivers poor planning when merging onto a motorway.

I find it bizarre as well. Typically, a car on a slip road is accelerating so when they come along side you, the reasonable assumption to make is that they will continue to accelerate and slot into the motorway in front of you. If they fail to do that, its not your fault. It seems that people are saying you should anticipate this happening but I just can't agree with that. Its perfectly reasonable to assume that they will merge correctly IMO.

I'm not an advanced driver, and those who are, can probably tell that I'm not. All I'm saying is that I think your logic is sound from a regular driver point of view.

[carlo996]

aturnick54 said:

I agree with you. Many on this thread have commented that the vehicle in lane one should adjust their speed. When in fact it should be the vehicle joining that adjusts their speed to find a suitable gap instead.

Personally I'd prefer people in lane one to maintain speed when I'm joining so that we don't both end up speeding up/slowing down at the same time.

Is this thread going as you'd hoped.

You really are part of the problem on the UK roads. I do hope this serves to educate you as to how to live an easier life?!

[Gary C]

aturnick54 said:

Which is what you are taught to do when merging onto a motorway in order to find a suitable gap.

You asked what you could have done.

Sitting parallel to another driver was one choice, slowing down was another.

Which do you think in the given circumstances you described would have lead to a safer outcome ?

[DanL]

aturnick54 said:

So it is now the responsibility of the driver in lane one to adjust their speed for vehicles joining? If someone is dawdling along the slip road at 50mph am I expected to slow down to let them in?

I must have missed that part when I was taught to drive. In heavier traffic it will only cause more congestion.

I do find it bizarre in this thread that people are making excuses for other drivers poor planning when merging onto a motorway.

It’s the responsibility of all drivers to avoid conflict, and to conduct their driving in such a way that it achieves this.

You’ll be past a driver doing 50 before they merge. If you aren’t, you’ll have seen them early enough to accommodate them one way or another.

It is not all one way traffic (as it were) - people should be better at joining motorways. Equally, you should be better (from what you’ve written) at avoiding conflict. “It’s my right” is the wrong mindset.

[aturnick54]

Forester1965 said:

It's obvious that some people will drive poorly as they enter from a slip road. We all know it. Nobody is excusing poor driving but we should all expect it.

The reason some people struggle with those joining is because they either don't anticipate the poor driving about to happen or they do but refuse to accomodate it.

So does this also mean we should be slowing down for every T junction that has a give way just in case somebody is a bad driver? You'd never make any progress if this were the case

[aturnick54]

carlo996 said:

Is this thread going as you'd hoped.

You really are part of the problem on the UK roads. I do hope this serves to educate you as to how to live an easier life?!

UK roads, because the general level of education of British drivers sucks. This problem simply doesn't exist in the continent. I drive thousands of miles a year in the UK and abroad, I have only ever come across people who are incapable of merging in the UK.

Perhaps as I said before, we need to focus on improving driver education and teach people how to merge onto a motorway or dual carriageway without inconveniencing other road users or posing a danger to them.

[aturnick54]

Gary C said:

You asked what you could have done.

Sitting parallel to another driver was one choice, slowing down was another.

Which do you think in the given circumstances you described would have lead to a safer outcome ?

Do you think a driving examiner would turn a blind eye to a learner driver merging onto a dual carriageway, and in the process forcing another vehicle which had priority to brake? They would very likely receive a serious fault and fail their test. It is far below what is expected of a competent and safe driver.

The suggestion here is to tolerate other people's bad driving, of which we often have no choice these days. But it really is down to the general education of drivers, and further education on how to merge or even how to use motorways and dual carriageways is much needed.

[JackJarvis]

soupdragon1 said:

aturnick54 said:

Ken_Code said:

Does your car not have the ability to turn off cruise control and adjust your speed?

You are genuinely coming across as the worst sort of driver here, arrogant, pompous and unable to take account of what’s coming up ahead.

So it is now the responsibility of the driver in lane one to adjust their speed for vehicles joining? If someone is dawdling along the slip road at 50mph am I expected to slow down to let them in?

I must have missed that part when I was taught to drive. In heavier traffic it will only cause more congestion.

I do find it bizarre in this thread that people are making excuses for other drivers poor planning when merging onto a motorway.

I find it bizarre as well. Typically, a car on a slip road is accelerating so when they come along side you, the reasonable assumption to make is that they will continue to accelerate and slot into the motorway in front of you. If they fail to do that, its not your fault. It seems that people are saying you should anticipate this happening but I just can't agree with that. Its perfectly reasonable to assume that they will merge correctly IMO.

I'm not an advanced driver, and those who are, can probably tell that I'm not. All I'm saying is that I think your logic is sound from a regular driver point of view.

Forget the concept of "fault", that's where you're going wrong. That's something people argue about on the hard shoulder after they've been involved in a collision. Driving in a way to minimise risk makes sure you don't need to have those conversations.

[soupdragon1]

JackJarvis said:

soupdragon1 said:

aturnick54 said:

Ken_Code said:

Does your car not have the ability to turn off cruise control and adjust your speed?

You are genuinely coming across as the worst sort of driver here, arrogant, pompous and unable to take account of what’s coming up ahead.

So it is now the responsibility of the driver in lane one to adjust their speed for vehicles joining? If someone is dawdling along the slip road at 50mph am I expected to slow down to let them in?

I must have missed that part when I was taught to drive. In heavier traffic it will only cause more congestion.

I do find it bizarre in this thread that people are making excuses for other drivers poor planning when merging onto a motorway.

I find it bizarre as well. Typically, a car on a slip road is accelerating so when they come along side you, the reasonable assumption to make is that they will continue to accelerate and slot into the motorway in front of you. If they fail to do that, its not your fault. It seems that people are saying you should anticipate this happening but I just can't agree with that. Its perfectly reasonable to assume that they will merge correctly IMO.

I'm not an advanced driver, and those who are, can probably tell that I'm not. All I'm saying is that I think your logic is sound from a regular driver point of view.

Forget the concept of "fault", that's where you're going wrong. That's something people argue about on the hard shoulder after they've been involved in a collision. Driving in a way to minimise risk makes sure you don't need to have those conversations.

Yes, I fully get that logic too. Its just I'm not convinced that every time you approach a merge, you should slow down for merging traffic. Maybe its the best approach, yes. I'm not an advanced driver so I'm not familiar with that type of training. When I'm on the motorway, I just leave a reasonable distance to the car in front and maintain the speed and gap, including when a merge happens. I guess overall, relative to an advanced driver, that makes me a bad driver. But relative to most of the rest of the population, not necessarily.

A bit like saying a scratch golfer is a bad golfer (relative to Rory McIlory, that's true) but relative to a regular golfer, its not true. I think that's the underlying issue with this thread. There is certainly faults to pick with most drivers on the road, but its pretty clear to me when I read the OP, the merging driver is more at fault than the OP. Merging onto a motorway isn't a difficult task for a reasonably competent driver.