Zen and the art of changing gear.
Discussion
Reg - what about down-changes under braking? I would say I'm pretty good at matching the revs when changing up whilst accelerating, or when changing down to accelerate (usually accompanied by cursing at my car's lack of power), but when braking if I need to change down I just have to gently use the clutch.
What's the trick? Should downchanges be separated from the braking (works fine heading towards a roundabout for example), and what of heel-and-toe downchanges?
Thanks,
Niall
What's the trick? Should downchanges be separated from the braking (works fine heading towards a roundabout for example), and what of heel-and-toe downchanges?
Thanks,
Niall
Correct me if I'm wrong as I was always under the impression that downchanging is only for acceleration. If done under braking then you risk a period of acceleration before the compression of the engine starts to decelerate the car, and that short period could be enough to push you 10 metres or so forward or unexpectedly shift the weight distribution of the car leading to a loss of control.
NiallOswald said:
Reg - what about down-changes under braking? I would say I'm pretty good at matching the revs when changing up whilst accelerating, or when changing down to accelerate (usually accompanied by cursing at my car's lack of power), but when braking if I need to change down I just have to gently use the clutch.
What's the trick? Should downchanges be separated from the braking (works fine heading towards a roundabout for example), and what of heel-and-toe downchanges?
Thanks,
Niall
What's the trick? Should downchanges be separated from the braking (works fine heading towards a roundabout for example), and what of heel-and-toe downchanges?
Thanks,
Niall
For road driving, heel/toe gearchanges aren't necessary. My preferred method is to get the speed right for the bend under braking, and then leave enough time to select a gear before turning the wheel. This keeps the car balanced under braking, avoids you getting cluttered up with the cars controls, and leaves you only two simple operations left when you're cornering - turning the wheel and pressing the accelerator.
That's not to say I'm dismissing heel/toe changing out of hand - it's a very useful track and competition technique, which allows a driver to match engine revs whilst braking and changing gear at the same time. It allows a driver to leave the braking later, removes the need to leave a pause for the gearchange and allows the driver to assist their braking with some engine braking.
There are several ways that drivers perform heel/toe. My preferred way is to press the brakes with the ball of my right foot and roll the right side of my foot onto the accelerator. Drivers with smaller feet than me can lift their heel off the floor, press the brake with their toes/ball of the foot, and twist their ankle up to the right so that they can press the accelerator with their heel. I'm sure someone else will be along with another method soon too, but just use whatever's right for you.
It does take some practice, and I don't recommend trying it for the first time when you're braking heavily for a corner. I can't say I'm an expert at the technique, but I'm getting better over time.
As I said before though, it's not my preferred technique for the road, as that's not an environment where you're looking for the ultimate in corner entry/exit speeds. Much better to seperate things out a bit, give yourself the time to get your speed and gear right seperately on the approach, and then accelerate through the bend.
TheKeyboardDemon said:
I was always under the impression that downchanging is only for acceleration.
As an aside, but still on the topic of changing gears, one of the most satisfying gear changes to get right imo is a full throttle downshift. It's very rarely called for, which is perhaps why it feels so unnatural, but it's very satisfying if timed correctly when you need to wind things up in a hurry.
R_U_LOCAL said:
No real problem - slip it into neutral before you roll to a stop, turn off the engine, select first, set off again on the starter motor as you would if you were doing a stall-retrieve in a 4X4 and you're away!
You do look a bit of a tit kangarooing away from the lights, but needs must when the devil pisses in your kettle.
You do look a bit of a tit kangarooing away from the lights, but needs must when the devil pisses in your kettle.
Which is what I did, but my mechanical sympathy was, I felt, somewhat compromised!
R_U_LOCAL said:
As I said before though [about heel and toe], it's not my preferred technique for the road, as that's not an environment where you're looking for the ultimate in corner entry/exit speeds. Much better to seperate things out a bit, give yourself the time to get your speed and gear right seperately on the approach, and then accelerate through the bend.
I agree with not using heel and toe as a matter of routine on the road. However, ..
Would you agree with overlapping brakes and gearchange in situations such as slowing for a downhill bend or corner, where the speed will build up if you release the brakes before changing gear? If so, don't you think use of heel and toe, providing it has been properly practised in a safe situation, is the safest, smoothest, and most sympathetic way to do this?
waremark said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
As I said before though [about heel and toe], it's not my preferred technique for the road, as that's not an environment where you're looking for the ultimate in corner entry/exit speeds. Much better to seperate things out a bit, give yourself the time to get your speed and gear right seperately on the approach, and then accelerate through the bend.
I agree with not using heel and toe as a matter of routine on the road. However, ..
Would you agree with overlapping brakes and gearchange in situations such as slowing for a downhill bend or corner, where the speed will build up if you release the brakes before changing gear? If so, don't you think use of heel and toe, providing it has been properly practised in a safe situation, is the safest, smoothest, and most sympathetic way to do this?
Yes it probably is. If you're driving to the Roadcraft system, there are actually very few situations when a brake/gear overlap is correct, but on a steep decent where you're turning into a junction, or which incorperates a tight bend, and releasing the brakes would allow the car to pick up speed again, then an overlap is ok. If you're competent, then I see no reason why you shouldn't accompany that with a heel/toe change to match engine speed to roa speed.
I suppose I should have mentioned that I suffer from a certain amount of joint pain. Which probably doesn't help with the thumb down part. I ended up kangarooing at several junctions, to the extent that the missus thought there was something wrong with the car. It felt really unnatural.
mattrm said:
I suppose I should have mentioned that I suffer from a certain amount of joint pain. Which probably doesn't help with the thumb down part. I ended up kangarooing at several junctions, to the extent that the missus thought there was something wrong with the car. It felt really unnatural.
I think I know what you mean, I have yet to find a completely comfortable driving position for any car. My biggest problem is when I encounter even a slightly bumpy road my feet end up bouncing on the pedal, particularly when de-clutching - so when my foot bounces the car seems to let everyone know. R_U_LOCAL said:
Yes it probably is.
I thought you would probably agree. My example was as taught by John Lyon. Actually, I use H & T in a wider variety of situations, but recognise that in doing so I am departing from standard police practise. The benefits are progress without sacrifice of safety and smoothness, and enjoyment.
R_U_LOCAL said:
Sitting on the clutch when stationary is one of my all time pet hates. I physically cringe when I see people doing it next to me in traffic.
In queues I agree. However some advanced drivers advocate staying on the clutch at T-junctions to allow a smoother getaway and also to avoid needing a COMPLETE stop.
On most modern hydraulic cars it's really not a significant issue for the mechanicals (although if you have some sort of organic six-puck monster then it might be an issue for your left cruciates
) Now what's your view on skipping gears? I frequently use full beans in 2nd up to 60 and then straight into 4th or 5th, but then my gears are somewhat closer than average, I guess.
Conversely it is possible to use the brakes so hard from the top of 4th than 3rd becomes a waste of time when approaching the hairpin, but I don't do that too often on the public road, only on the track.
zevans said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
Sitting on the clutch when stationary is one of my all time pet hates. I physically cringe when I see people doing it next to me in traffic.
In queues I agree. However some advanced drivers advocate staying on the clutch at T-junctions to allow a smoother getaway and also to avoid needing a COMPLETE stop.
On most modern hydraulic cars it's really not a significant issue for the mechanicals (although if you have some sort of organic six-puck monster then it might be an issue for your left cruciates
) Now what's your view on skipping gears? I frequently use full beans in 2nd up to 60 and then straight into 4th or 5th, but then my gears are somewhat closer than average, I guess.
Conversely it is possible to use the brakes so hard from the top of 4th than 3rd becomes a waste of time when approaching the hairpin, but I don't do that too often on the public road, only on the track.
Maybe I should re-phrase "sitting on the clutch" with "riding the clutch" i.e. using the clutch and engine revs to hold the car stationary on an incline rather than the handbrake.
*Cringes*
Skipping gears isn't a problem, and it's even advocated by roadcraft - you can "engage a chosen gear without going through an intermediate gear first" (or something similar - where did I put my copy?). It's more common when going down through the box, but there's no problem with using it when changing up either, as long as it's appropriate.
Decided to give this a go on the way to work this morning. Not as easy as it sounds
One thing I had forgotten is that the throttle position to hold a certain rpm is significantly less when the clutch is depressed than when in gear (blazingly obvious when you think about it for a few ms).
I found that a significantly shallower throttle position was needed to prevent the revs rising at all. I was almost completely releasing pressure on the accelerator to allow engine revs to drop when the clutch was depressed while upshifting. This also, obviously, meant that the throttle position needed increasing as the clutch was engaged to make for a smooth gear change.
I assume the increase of the throttle position is to allow for the loading to the engine that will occur as the clutch plates are brought together. I would imagine the ideal would be to maintain engine speed until the plates are fully engaged and then to increase rpm when accelerating.
One thing I had forgotten is that the throttle position to hold a certain rpm is significantly less when the clutch is depressed than when in gear (blazingly obvious when you think about it for a few ms).
I found that a significantly shallower throttle position was needed to prevent the revs rising at all. I was almost completely releasing pressure on the accelerator to allow engine revs to drop when the clutch was depressed while upshifting. This also, obviously, meant that the throttle position needed increasing as the clutch was engaged to make for a smooth gear change.
I assume the increase of the throttle position is to allow for the loading to the engine that will occur as the clutch plates are brought together. I would imagine the ideal would be to maintain engine speed until the plates are fully engaged and then to increase rpm when accelerating.
Phisp said:
Decided to give this a go on the way to work this morning. Not as easy as it sounds
One thing I had forgotten is that the throttle position to hold a certain rpm is significantly less when the clutch is depressed than when in gear (blazingly obvious when you think about it for a few ms).
I found that a significantly shallower throttle position was needed to prevent the revs rising at all. I was almost completely releasing pressure on the accelerator to allow engine revs to drop when the clutch was depressed while upshifting. This also, obviously, meant that the throttle position needed increasing as the clutch was engaged to make for a smooth gear change.
I assume the increase of the throttle position is to allow for the loading to the engine that will occur as the clutch plates are brought together. I would imagine the ideal would be to maintain engine speed until the plates are fully engaged and then to increase rpm when accelerating.
It sounds like you're trying to alter the engine revs after you've pressed the clutch.One thing I had forgotten is that the throttle position to hold a certain rpm is significantly less when the clutch is depressed than when in gear (blazingly obvious when you think about it for a few ms).
I found that a significantly shallower throttle position was needed to prevent the revs rising at all. I was almost completely releasing pressure on the accelerator to allow engine revs to drop when the clutch was depressed while upshifting. This also, obviously, meant that the throttle position needed increasing as the clutch was engaged to make for a smooth gear change.
I assume the increase of the throttle position is to allow for the loading to the engine that will occur as the clutch plates are brought together. I would imagine the ideal would be to maintain engine speed until the plates are fully engaged and then to increase rpm when accelerating.
Instead, when changing up, start releasing the pressure on the accelerator to a point wher the acceleration has momentarily stopped. Then press the clutch and alow the revs to drop to the correct point for the next gear.
As you correctly identify, it's then better to bring up the clutch whilst the engine speed matches the road speed before pressing the accelerator, otherwise all your hard work in matching the revs will have been wasted.
It sounds laborious and time-consuming, but with practice it's just as quick as any other normal single-clutch gearchange.
W.r.t Heel & toe downshifts the single biggest error/area of difficulty that semi-skilled protagonists of the art have is in maintaining the desired braking force whilst "dancing on the pedals", especially if combined with double declutching. When we have clients/racers on track I often remind that we can get through the corner safely in the wrong gear but not necessarily at the wrong speed. It's the braking that's the important part, especially heading into say Redgate, or Aremburg at significant speed. To this end the gear can be put in at the end of the braking to minimise the unfuelled rev rise in the engine - reduced torque change or twitch. Less engine braking than a blipped change earlier in the braking but better/safer/more balanced for the non-expert. Remember the energy required to raise the engine revs either has to be fuelled via a blip or has to come out of the car in terms of an unwanted transient or twitch. This worked well for a lad at Ty Croes last Friday who had never been on track before and who initially struggled with corner entry speeds. As against the lad at Donington last Tuesday whose over ambitious rushed attempt at h&t change resulted in a spin. Once he applied the "safe" method, more in line with his proficiency, the drive improved markedly.
W.r.t gear efforts the lever should be moved with the minimum, but considered, forces. The gearbox itself will help with the change in terms of sprung plane and detent springing. For example, changing 2-3 involved a vector/force forwards out of the detent, return (box provided) sprung force to 3/4 plane, force vectored forwards into 3. If you feel the gear through slowly then aim to speed up with more practice and less force you will be rewarded by the car telling you how good the change is. Its a "feel the force" moment! Then, learn to develop the throttle out and in again, even on track, when gearchanging. After all, you are feeling for the limits of traction when driving quick cars in a competitive arena and any change in demanded traction should be there because you ask for it rather than introduced due to lack of skill.
On a final note, when practising these skills remember it takes time to master anything worth doing - usually about 30 years!
W.r.t gear efforts the lever should be moved with the minimum, but considered, forces. The gearbox itself will help with the change in terms of sprung plane and detent springing. For example, changing 2-3 involved a vector/force forwards out of the detent, return (box provided) sprung force to 3/4 plane, force vectored forwards into 3. If you feel the gear through slowly then aim to speed up with more practice and less force you will be rewarded by the car telling you how good the change is. Its a "feel the force" moment! Then, learn to develop the throttle out and in again, even on track, when gearchanging. After all, you are feeling for the limits of traction when driving quick cars in a competitive arena and any change in demanded traction should be there because you ask for it rather than introduced due to lack of skill.
On a final note, when practising these skills remember it takes time to master anything worth doing - usually about 30 years!
Edited by instructormike on Wednesday 8th August 00:16
R_U_LOCAL said:
Changing down is very similar, but the process involves raising, rather than lowering the revs. Racing and competition drivers "blip" the throttle on down-changes to match engine speed to road speed, but I'm talking about road driving, which is slightly different. A blip is only suited to very fast gearchanges, which aren't necessary on the road, so in advanced road driving, the revs are raised during the downchange, and not blipped.
As you're changing gear, squeeze the accelerator gently to raise the revs from 3000 to 5000, release the clutch, and then continue accelerating.
Could you elaborate on this please? I presume we're both agreed that the revs need to be matched on a downchange, to prevent any unnecessary and destabilising braking force being imparted on the driven wheels, which is unsafe for obvious reasons. Are we talking heel and toe here, or something different? Plus, why is blipping only suited to fast gearchanges? Surely this only applies to racing engines where the lightened flywheel causes a rapid drop off of revs. On most road engines, a blip to slightly above the required revs will see those revs sustained for long enough to make a very slow gearchange indeed. In my Elise and my Caterham (both of which have standard engines with standard flywheels), one can change down a gear almost in slow motion with just a quick blip to the throttle. In cars with less responsive engines (say, a Vectra or a Mondeo), this is even more true - the revs stay up for ages after a blip. With this in mind, doesn't a quick blip make more sense as it takes one's attention away for less long - that flick of the heel is totally automatic for me and I do it without thinking - does a prolonged rev raising effort become automatic? I'm not sure it would.As you're changing gear, squeeze the accelerator gently to raise the revs from 3000 to 5000, release the clutch, and then continue accelerating.
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 10th August 10:58
RobM77 said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
Changing down is very similar, but the process involves raising, rather than lowering the revs. Racing and competition drivers "blip" the throttle on down-changes to match engine speed to road speed, but I'm talking about road driving, which is slightly different. A blip is only suited to very fast gearchanges, which aren't necessary on the road, so in advanced road driving, the revs are raised during the downchange, and not blipped.
As you're changing gear, squeeze the accelerator gently to raise the revs from 3000 to 5000, release the clutch, and then continue accelerating.
Could you elaborate on this please? I presume we're both agreed that the revs need to be matched on a downchange, to prevent any unnecessary and destabilising braking force being imparted on the driven wheels, which is unsafe for obvious reasons. Are we talking heel and toe here, or something different? Plus, why is blipping only suited to fast gearchanges? Surely this only applies to racing engines where the lightened flywheel causes a rapid drop off of revs. On most road engines, a blip to slightly above the required revs will see those revs sustained for long enough to make a very slow gearchange indeed. In my Elise and my Caterham (both of which have standard engines with standard flywheels), one can change down a gear almost in slow motion with just a quick blip to the throttle. In cars with less responsive engines (say, a Vectra or a Mondeo), this is even more true - the revs stay up for ages after a blip. With this in mind, doesn't a quick blip make more sense as it takes one's attention away for less long - that flick of the heel is totally automatic for me and I do it without thinking - does a prolonged rev raising effort become automatic? I'm not sure it would.As you're changing gear, squeeze the accelerator gently to raise the revs from 3000 to 5000, release the clutch, and then continue accelerating.
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 10th August 10:58
First of all, I'm not talking about heel and toe gearchanges. I'm a big believer (for road driving, anyway), that braking and gearchanging should be separated. Of course, H+T is a better track technique, allowing the driver to make smooth gearchanges whilst threshold braking, and allowing them to improve turn-in to the corner by keeping the brakes applied until just after turn-in. On the road, however, this isn't necessary. You shouldn't be threshold braking or cornering to the cars limits or looking to eke a few extra tenths of a second from your car. On the road, even if you're driving quickly, you should be keeping plenty in reserve. So, for road driving, I recommend getting the speed right for a corner or other hazard first, but then leaving enough time after coming off the brakes, to allow a nice smooth gearchange before turning into the bend or negotiating the hazard.
It's not an easy method to master at first, I agree, but the benefits are obvious. First of all, you'll be keeping both hands on the wheel whilst braking. Secondly, it ensures - and this is particularly important for good cornering - that everything else is sorted before you enter the corner, so that all you've got left to do is turn the wheel and accelerate.
Thirdly - and this is the most relevant advantage when it comes to gearchanging - it means that your right foot is free to press the accelerator only during the gearchange, which simplifies the process and allows you more scope to be accurate with the gearchange.
On to blipping the throttle. A blip is a quick, momentary press of the accelerator which results in the revs rising and falling quite quickly. Now, I don't want to get too "Open University" over this, but I've drawn a couple of graphs to help me explain.
Imagine in this case, that you're changing down from, say, fourth to third. The engine speed in fourth is 3000 RPM and the engine speed in third will be 4000 RPM. Your objective during the gearchange is to bring the clutch up at, or as close to 4000 RPM as you can, in order to smooth out the change. The first graph shows a throttle blip, where the revs rise and then fall quite quickly...
As you can see, the engine is at 4000 RPM twice during the blip, at 1 and 2. However, the time that the engine is at 4000 RPM is only momentary, and if you release the clutch at the wrong time, you're going to catch the engine at the wrong revs.
Here's the graph showing a sustained-rev gearchange...
As you can see, the engine is held at 4000 RPM, which allows you to time your clutch release much more easily and accurately - the time available for releasing the clutch at 3 is much longer.
Does a sustained-rev gearchange become automatic? Most definitely, yes, and it can be performed very quickly and efficiently too - with practise. Think back to when you learned to H+T. I'm sure it didn't come naturally at first and that you had to concentrate and make mistakes until you got it right. The same is true with my method. Practise will make it become as automatic as any other aspect of your driving.
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