Pulling in after overtaking
Discussion
For the first time in my life, I got pulled over by a policeman last week - he said he had followed me up the A48 from the M4 and said I was driving "erratically", ie "doing 80, going over the white lines, and cutting in on people". He asked me a few questions, name, where I was from, had I been on my mobile, drinking, taking drugs etc (no), we established it was late and I might be tired, so he sent me on my way with a warning to drive carefully.
Nice bloke, good policing - to be honest, it was fairly late at night and I was trying to make progress hopefully in a legal and considerate manner and possibly falling a bit short of my standards (although I wasn't doing 80). So it probably needed saying. I was a bit annoyed with myself at the time and will take care to drive better in future, especially at the end of long journeys when I'm, maybe, just a bit too fucussed on getting to my destination.
Anyway, the specific thing that worries me is the bit about "cutting in". When pulling back over after an overtake my rule of thumb has always been that if I can see the car in my rear view mirror the gap is big enough to start pulling in. Other drivers don't always seem to leave such a big gap when overtaking me, and people following me often seem to think I should have pulled in earlier, so I've always assumed it's reasonable. Is it enough space, even at 70? I just thought I ought to check as it's something I routinely do and therefore I can change it fairly easily.
Nice bloke, good policing - to be honest, it was fairly late at night and I was trying to make progress hopefully in a legal and considerate manner and possibly falling a bit short of my standards (although I wasn't doing 80). So it probably needed saying. I was a bit annoyed with myself at the time and will take care to drive better in future, especially at the end of long journeys when I'm, maybe, just a bit too fucussed on getting to my destination.
Anyway, the specific thing that worries me is the bit about "cutting in". When pulling back over after an overtake my rule of thumb has always been that if I can see the car in my rear view mirror the gap is big enough to start pulling in. Other drivers don't always seem to leave such a big gap when overtaking me, and people following me often seem to think I should have pulled in earlier, so I've always assumed it's reasonable. Is it enough space, even at 70? I just thought I ought to check as it's something I routinely do and therefore I can change it fairly easily.
As a general rule, waiting until you can see the overtaken vehicle in your centre mirror works fine, and should pull you in to a position around 2 seconds in front of the vehicle.
The problem could lay with how you pull back in, rather than where.
Try to make your move back to the nearside as smoothly as possible - if you jink the car left, it can be interpreted wrongly as an aggressive move, and I'd imagine that this is probably the root of the problem. People are generally uncomfortable with overtakes, and they like to go back to the nearside as quickly as possible. Generally, this isn't necessary, and you can make the move nearside more gradual, which, in turn, makes the overtake look less aggressive, and has the aded benefit of being a smoother move.
The problem could lay with how you pull back in, rather than where.
Try to make your move back to the nearside as smoothly as possible - if you jink the car left, it can be interpreted wrongly as an aggressive move, and I'd imagine that this is probably the root of the problem. People are generally uncomfortable with overtakes, and they like to go back to the nearside as quickly as possible. Generally, this isn't necessary, and you can make the move nearside more gradual, which, in turn, makes the overtake look less aggressive, and has the aded benefit of being a smoother move.
R_U_LOCAL said:
As a general rule, waiting until you can see the overtaken vehicle in your centre mirror works fine, and should pull you in to a position around 2 seconds in front of the vehicle.
The problem could lay with how you pull back in, rather than where.
Try to make your move back to the nearside as smoothly as possible - if you jink the car left, it can be interpreted wrongly as an aggressive move, and I'd imagine that this is probably the root of the problem. People are generally uncomfortable with overtakes, and they like to go back to the nearside as quickly as possible. Generally, this isn't necessary, and you can make the move nearside more gradual, which, in turn, makes the overtake look less aggressive, and has the added benefit of being a smoother move.
The problem could lay with how you pull back in, rather than where.
Try to make your move back to the nearside as smoothly as possible - if you jink the car left, it can be interpreted wrongly as an aggressive move, and I'd imagine that this is probably the root of the problem. People are generally uncomfortable with overtakes, and they like to go back to the nearside as quickly as possible. Generally, this isn't necessary, and you can make the move nearside more gradual, which, in turn, makes the overtake look less aggressive, and has the added benefit of being a smoother move.
I think people often are uncomfortable when things happen suddenly, which might take them by surprise, startle them etc., and this doesn't only apply to overtaking. There may be no major problem in practical terms, but a style that gets things done in an efficient but unhurried manner is, I would suggest, better for all concerned.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
R U Local said:
The problem could lay with how you pull back in, rather than where.
Try to make your move back to the nearside as smoothly as possible - if you jink the car left, it can be interpreted wrongly as an aggressive move, and I'd imagine that this is probably the root of the problem. People are generally uncomfortable with overtakes, and they like to go back to the nearside as quickly as possible. Generally, this isn't necessary, and you can make the move nearside more gradual, which, in turn, makes the overtake look less aggressive, and has the aded benefit of being a smoother move.
Try to make your move back to the nearside as smoothly as possible - if you jink the car left, it can be interpreted wrongly as an aggressive move, and I'd imagine that this is probably the root of the problem. People are generally uncomfortable with overtakes, and they like to go back to the nearside as quickly as possible. Generally, this isn't necessary, and you can make the move nearside more gradual, which, in turn, makes the overtake look less aggressive, and has the aded benefit of being a smoother move.
Thanks Reg, that's a good point well made. I think my driving came over as being a bit aggressive and particularly so for rural Carmarthenshire where most people seem to see no need to drive up to the speed limit, let alone over it. On the M4 from about Swansea west I am often the fastest car on the road (at not much over 70) and when joining the A48 at Pont Abraham I usually take the right hand lane throughout so I can overtake off the roundabout. Nothing wrong with that IMO but I think to start with my driving probably drew attention to itself meaning that subsequent lack of attention to detail became more obvious. To be honest it's great that a copper notices something out of the ordinary and possibly suspicious and takes the time to follow and pull the driver to check things out. And it's made me think far more about my driving than a gatso ticket would, and I'll move that Ride Drive course up the priority list for spending my beer vouchers on.
Edited by saxmund on Wednesday 18th April 13:29
Edited by saxmund on Wednesday 18th April 13:29
R_U_LOCAL said:
The problem could lay with how you pull back in, rather than where.
I suspect this may be related to the issue of banana overtakes. IMO the safest and also the least aggressive overtake is done more or less in a straight line from the far side of the road in to your destination gap, rather than 'swerve out while accelerating' or 'swerve in while decelerating'. One benefit of this that I think is particularly relevant in a fast car is that from the point of view of oncoming traffic it is apparent right from the outset that the car is returning to its own side of the road and how much time it is going to take to do this, but it also makes everything very predictable for the vehicle being overtaken. This gives the oncoming driver confidence that you're getting out of their way several seconds sooner than if you wait to clear the vehicle you're passing before you start to pull in.
Obviously does depend on the amount of road space available, relative speeds and distances etc, I'm not suggesting you chop his nose off, but on a typical wide trunk road with enough power available to give you a large speed differential during the overtake, there's ample space to do this.
KieronSRi said:
As soon as you can see the face of the car in your left habd mirror youre safe to pull in. Thats what my advanced driving instructor taught me and i never seem to have any problems.
That's not quite right. Door mirrors can give a false perspective and lack any depth of view. That's why I always recommend witing until you can see the overtaken vehicle in your centre mirror before pulling in, rather than the nearside door mirror. If you do that, then you can be fairly sure you'll be pulling in with a reasonable distance between yourself and the overtaken vehicle. Relying on the door mirror can sometimes pull you in a little tight.
R_U_LOCAL said:
KieronSRi said:
As soon as you can see the face of the car in your left habd mirror youre safe to pull in. Thats what my advanced driving instructor taught me and i never seem to have any problems.
That's not quite right. Door mirrors can give a false perspective and lack any depth of view. That's why I always recommend witing until you can see the overtaken vehicle in your centre mirror before pulling in, rather than the nearside door mirror. If you do that, then you can be fairly sure you'll be pulling in with a reasonable distance between yourself and the overtaken vehicle. Relying on the door mirror can sometimes pull you in a little tight.
I think Reg is right. As far as I am aware external mirrors are normally convex, which gives a wider field of view, but they make things look further away than they really are, which can be deceiving. OTOH the internal mirror is flat, so it doesn't give the distorted impression of distances.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
tend to look over my shoulder as bikes and cycles are more vulnerable than cars 
wing mirrors are nice, but I do have a blind spot in each and if relied on mirrors only probably would be dead by now, like joining the motorway looks clear and then u realise a large vehicle is in the blindspot....
takes a bit longer, but is so much safer
wing mirrors are nice, but I do have a blind spot in each and if relied on mirrors only probably would be dead by now, like joining the motorway looks clear and then u realise a large vehicle is in the blindspot.... takes a bit longer, but is so much safer
KieronSRi said:
Not really as i still tend to be accelerating as i calmy pull in.
What? In every overtaking situation? I doubt it.
What if you're overtaking a line of vehicles and pulling into a gap? I often stop accelerating before I'm even alongside the overtaken vehicle, to allow me to pull into the gap under acceleration sense, without any braking.
R_U_LOCAL said:
I often stop accelerating before I'm even alongside the overtaken vehicle
In that case you must be doing it wrong. Surely you should be accelerating all the way, slam on the brakes at the last moment to avoid the car you want to pull in behind, and then swerve in to the gap (don't worry, they always make space for you if you're forceful enough) just in time to avoid the oncoming traffic. This is the way most people seem to do it, apparently we live in a democracy, so logically then it must be right.
GreenV8S said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
I often stop accelerating before I'm even alongside the overtaken vehicle
In that case you must be doing it wrong. Surely you should be accelerating all the way, slam on the brakes at the last moment to avoid the car you want to pull in behind, and then swerve in to the gap (don't worry, they always make space for you if you're forceful enough) just in time to avoid the oncoming traffic. This is the way most people seem to do it, apparently we live in a democracy, so logically then it must be right.
*Slaps forehead*
So that's where I've been going wrong all these years?
*Goes off to re-write roadcraft*
R_U_LOCAL said:
GreenV8S said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
I often stop accelerating before I'm even alongside the overtaken vehicle
In that case you must be doing it wrong. Surely you should be accelerating all the way, slam on the brakes at the last moment to avoid the car you want to pull in behind, and then swerve in to the gap (don't worry, they always make space for you if you're forceful enough) just in time to avoid the oncoming traffic. This is the way most people seem to do it, apparently we live in a democracy, so logically then it must be right.
*Slaps forehead*
So that's where I've been going wrong all these years?
*Goes off to re-write roadcraft*
Oh good; in which case please get rid of that nonsensical table/questionnaire on page 11 of the 2001 edition.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
R_U_LOCAL said:
KieronSRi said:
Not really as i still tend to be accelerating as i calmy pull in.
What? In every overtaking situation? I doubt it.
What if you're overtaking a line of vehicles and pulling into a gap? I often stop accelerating before I'm even alongside the overtaken vehicle, to allow me to pull into the gap under acceleration sense, without any braking.
I dont tend to Que jump if thats what you mean.
KieronSRi said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
KieronSRi said:
Not really as i still tend to be accelerating as i calmy pull in.
What? In every overtaking situation? I doubt it.
What if you're overtaking a line of vehicles and pulling into a gap? I often stop accelerating before I'm even alongside the overtaken vehicle, to allow me to pull into the gap under acceleration sense, without any braking.
I dont tend to Que jump if thats what you mean.
Que jump?
KieronSRi said:
imbecile said:
If I pulled in when I could see a car in my nearside mirror then I would collide with it.
Do you drive a lorry the or are you a rubbish driver. Its what they teach you in the standard test and the advanced test.
The don't teach you that when you can see something in your n/s mirror it means it's safe to pull in
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