Indicating when changing gear

[nerfherder]

Heebeegeetee said:

nerfherder said:

I've never noticed it being a problem in 20 years driving, not even with a 6-speed box.

I don't think most people think of it as a problem, but then I don't think most people realise they're not indicating.

Good point, so I'll clarify - I used to indicate before every manouvre, but since I had some instruction and read Roadcraft I try and keep it down to when it would benefit other road users or pedestrians. Still never had any problems with indicating and changing gear though.

[tigger1]

TRACKDEMON said:

tigger1 said:

Is it only me wondering why people are saying that it'd be safer to have the indicator on the right stalk (in a RHD car) to allow indicating whilst changing gear???

Doesn't that imply driving with no hands on the wheel? Shirley this isn't the safest way to go around a roundabout?

Er, no?

So, the OP said

OP said:

There is a letter in Autocar from someone complaining that having the indicator stalk on the left makes it impossible to change gear and switch the indicators on/off at the same time.

If you want to change gear with the left hand, whilst indicating at the same time using the right hand, this seems like you would need two hands off the wheel. I just don't see why you should ever need to be doing this in normal road driving.

[thegman]

my 1969 mgb has an indicator on the right.

I guess we have drifted to the other side as car manufacturers tried to standardise?????

[gdaybruce]

The British car industry invariably put the indicator stalk on the right and this was the norm roughly until the 80s. Growing European imports and the desire of global manufacturers to standardise on a design that suited the majority of their customers led to the left hand side becoming normal and we Brits got used to it.

However, as has been said, certain markets where folk drive on the left - notably Japan - held on to a right hand indicator position. My 1997 Subaru Legacy had a right hand indicator, for example.

While hardly a critical point, I must say I find a right hand position more natural. One then has one hand for the gear lever and one for the indicator, a separation of functions that simply feels more natural.

[Chris71]

Apart fromt he fact you're ever likely to want to do them at the same time, without crossing your hands, you have to change gear with your left hand (in a RHD car) which means taking it off the steering wheel. This means you practical brush the indicator stalk without even trying to do so.

Not an issue

[AL666]

tigger1 said:

TRACKDEMON said:

tigger1 said:

Is it only me wondering why people are saying that it'd be safer to have the indicator on the right stalk (in a RHD car) to allow indicating whilst changing gear???

Doesn't that imply driving with no hands on the wheel? Shirley this isn't the safest way to go around a roundabout?

Er, no?

So, the OP said

OP said:

There is a letter in Autocar from someone complaining that having the indicator stalk on the left makes it impossible to change gear and switch the indicators on/off at the same time.

If you want to change gear with the left hand, whilst indicating at the same time using the right hand, this seems like you would need two hands off the wheel. I just don't see why you should ever need to be doing this in normal road driving.

Not really, because, in most cars, you can flick the indicator on while still keeping hold of the steering wheel, but you can't flick the indicator on with the hand that's changing gear, which is why - in my opinion - it does make more sense to have the indicator stalk on the right.

[Heebeegeetee]

When in the truck, there is a junction near uis where we do the same thing quite often. We turn right into a dual carraigeway, but I am going to turn right off it in 100 yds or so. So, I try to keep the rh indicator going to avoid haveing cars up my backside waiting for me to move over to my left.

But in the truck, due to the lower geared steering, the indicator will try to cancel some 3 or 4 times, and even though the distance is @ 100 yds, I will change gear about 4 times if fully loaded. Thus, the left hand has 3 jobs (hold the wheel, work the indicator, chage gear) the right hand just one job (hold the wheel). Does that make sense? Not in my book, it would make perfect sense to share the jobs 50/50.

Also in my neck of the woods, we have many large roundabouts of umpteen lanes and sets of traffic lights. The situation in front of you changes by the second, and I'll often want another lane than the one I originally picked. If I'm just moving off from a set of lights though, I'll be changing gear. Now I know you can change lanes and exit roundabouts without indicating to all around you your intentions, but I think its crap to do so.

Its no big deal, but I still think we're the only nation to put the indicator by the gear lever, and to me thats yet another pointer to the numptiness of the british car industry, and when people complain about rh indicator stalks, to me thats a pointer to their lack of experience. It probably never occurs to them that it would be better to do what the rest of the world does and seperate indicating and gear changing tasks.

[iLiekCarz]

Ricky_M said:

Why would you need to do them at the same time?

^^ What he said.

Indicate in plenty of time as you are approaching the hazard.
Make your speed appropriate for the hazard/traffic ahead.
Select appropriate gear for that hazard.
Maneuver through hazard area (roundabout, junction, whatever).
Accelerate away and change up after the hazard.

If you have to change gear, i.e. moving away from stationary to join a roundabout, I find short shifting 1-2 before any extra indicating/steering is required works a treat for me.

Edited by iLiekCarz on Sunday 24th June 15:54

[tigger1]

Heebeegeetee said:

"lots of stuff that I think is just bad planning"

If you need to do so many things at once, maybe your anticipation skils need working on (as do mine). Shirley when driving you want to be in a postion where *nothing* should come as a surprise?

[PeteG]

My old (like, two years younger than me, 89 G-plate) Micra had the indicators on the right, wipers on the left. I'd not driven for a while before I got it, so it wasn't too much to get used to. Come the day I got my Corsa, it took a bit of getting used to. (The Corsa also felt like a rocketship, with 200 more cc's...)

[Heebeegeetee]

tigger1 said:

Shirley when driving you want to be in a postion where *nothing* should come as a surprise?

I think your dreaming.

( a car overtaking me in a ditch, a car overtaking a truck round the outside of a blind bend to meet me head on, woman reversing out of an empty layby onto a fast dual carraigeway, are just 3 things I can think of right now that I didn't foresee.)

Plus, in all the posts telling us how we should be driving, no-one has said when we should reapply the indicator that has just cancelled.

[Buelligan 984]

This is a slightly different perspective on the original question, but given that modern vehicles are jam-packed with electronics, surely it wouldn't be too difficult to have indicators that don't self-cancel for a set period (combination of speed and distance) unless the stalk if actively moved back? And then they always cancel after a set period, to avoid people forgetting to cancel them when the self-cancel from the steering column doesn't?

Yamaha developed a similar system for bikes about 25 years ago.

Dave

[tigger1]

Heebeegeetee said:

tigger1 said:

Shirley when driving you want to be in a postion where *nothing* should come as a surprise?

I think your dreaming.

( a car overtaking me in a ditch, a car overtaking a truck round the outside of a blind bend to meet me head on, woman reversing out of an empty layby onto a fast dual carraigeway, are just 3 things I can think of right now that I didn't foresee.)

I think you're dreaming.

Those are 3 things that wouldn't require you to use your indicator though. They also shouldn't come as a surprise, they are potential hazards...albeit ridiculous ones (somebody reversing out of a lay-by???).

I'll step away from this thread now...nothing else to add.

[kambites]

I like having the indicators on the right, to the extent that I'm trying to find a way of switching the stalks over on my Elise. It's always seemed an ergonomic flaw to have them on the same side as the gear stick to me.

[Heebeegeetee]

tigger1 said:

Heebeegeetee said:

tigger1 said:

Shirley when driving you want to be in a postion where *nothing* should come as a surprise?

I think your dreaming.

( a car overtaking me in a ditch, a car overtaking a truck round the outside of a blind bend to meet me head on, woman reversing out of an empty layby onto a fast dual carraigeway, are just 3 things I can think of right now that I didn't foresee.)

I think you're dreaming.

Those are 3 things that wouldn't require you to use your indicator though. They also shouldn't come as a surprise, they are potential hazards...albeit ridiculous ones (somebody reversing out of a lay-by???).

I'll step away from this thread now...nothing else to add.

I was doing 40 mph in a truck, I heard a noise to my right, and 20 feet below me in a ditch, was a car overtaking me. I was surprised. The noise I heard was the dry undergrowth it was mowing down.

Mind you having said that, I have always said that if you only drive a car, you see nothing surprising and nothing extraordinary ever happens. Its a sweeping generalisation I know, but tis generally true IMO.

[Buelligan 984]

Heeb....

I fear you have utterly missed the point.

Do not do us all the dishonour of assuming we only drive cars.

If the first indiction you had of the "car in the ditch" was the sound of the undergrowth, exactly how long before that did you last really check your mirrors? Not just a "check 'cos I should" but a full on look and consider what I'm seeing kinda look?

Did the car appear in the ditch without you seeing it in your mirrors earlier, then noticing that it had disappeared from you view? How often do you check the mirrors? If you are driving a vehicle with big blind spots, that's not anyone else's problem, its your's. If you are not able to see a vehicle coming up in a ditch on the inside, you should be considering the possibility it could happen and not be surprised if it does.

I drafted a comprehensive reply to your earlier post, then deleted it - but you have carried on the debate so I have chosen to reply now.

I'd be happy to hear your reply,

Dave

[Heebeegeetee]

Buelligan 984 said:

Heeb....

I fear you have utterly missed the point.

Do not do us all the dishonour of assuming we only drive cars.

If the first indiction you had of the "car in the ditch" was the sound of the undergrowth, exactly how long before that did you last really check your mirrors? Not just a "check 'cos I should" but a full on look and consider what I'm seeing kinda look?

Did the car appear in the ditch without you seeing it in your mirrors earlier, then noticing that it had disappeared from you view? How often do you check the mirrors? If you are driving a vehicle with big blind spots, that's not anyone else's problem, its your's. If you are not able to see a vehicle coming up in a ditch on the inside, you should be considering the possibility it could happen and not be surprised if it does.

I drafted a comprehensive reply to your earlier post, then deleted it - but you have carried on the debate so I have chosen to reply now.

I'd be happy to hear your reply,

Dave

I watched the car in my mirrors overtake me, (this was in Yogoslavia btw) I watched him cut in front of me and clip my cab, I watched him get pitched up onto two wheels totally broadside across me, and then watched him go down the ditch, I started to slow down and stop, and then watched in amazement as he continued along the ditch still trying to overtake me.

I realised he was going to attempt to run up the bank to get out of the ditch, and I realised that if he got in front of me it could result in him crashing into an oncoming lorry which might then kill me, so I accelerated past him. He did try to get up out of the ditch but didn't make it.

And yes, I still say I was surprised when he tried to overtake me in the ditch. I don't have much experience of this sort of thing, but I'd say that normally, when people go into ditches, they usually stop.

I don't know about you, but I don't think I've ever driven a car that has mirrors that point down into ditches.

You say that the blind spots are my problem and not anybody elses. A lot of people share your view, which is why they become a cropper when driving in lorry blindspots. I drive cars as well of course, but I make it my business to stay out of truck blind spots. That way, a truck won't hit me. I'm not the slightest bit bothered about the rights and wrongs of it, I just don't bother tangling with trucks, can't see the point, etc.

[nerfherder]

Heebeegeetee said:

You say that the blind spots are my problem and not anybody elses. A lot of people share your view, which is why they become a cropper when driving in lorry blindspots. I drive cars as well of course, but I make it my business to stay out of truck blind spots. That way, a truck won't hit me. I'm not the slightest bit bothered about the rights and wrongs of it, I just don't bother tangling with trucks, can't see the point, etc.

Swerving slightly off topic, but I see this as basic defensive driving - I agree and I don't care who's in the right or wrong if my 1 ton car is arguing with a 40 ton lorry...

Edited by nerfherder on Friday 29th June 13:42

[Alfanatic]

Heebeegeetee said:

....

And yes, I still say I was surprised when he tried to overtake me in the ditch. I don't have much experience of this sort of thing, but I'd say that normally, when people go into ditches, they usually stop.
...

Yeah, I'd have thought so too

[Heebeegeetee]

Alfanatic said:

Heebeegeetee said:

....

And yes, I still say I was surprised when he tried to overtake me in the ditch. I don't have much experience of this sort of thing, but I'd say that normally, when people go into ditches, they usually stop.
...

Yeah, I'd have thought so too

Thanks. Tbh, it what was always a mystery was how he managed to carry on. It was a right steep embankment he went down, the bottom must have been 15' below road level, he left the road at a 90 degrees angle, so I never understood how he managed to go down the bank, then run along the ditch at the bottom and keep his speed up. I was still doing 30ish and he was passing me.