Indicating when changing gear
Discussion
Mirror THEN signal THEN manoeuvre.
I prefer indicator stalks on the same side as the gear lever and think it should be made law. It stops the wallies who decide to indicate, brake and turn at the same time. Follow the Highway Code and it doesn't matter what side the indicator stalk is on.
I prefer indicator stalks on the same side as the gear lever and think it should be made law. It stops the wallies who decide to indicate, brake and turn at the same time. Follow the Highway Code and it doesn't matter what side the indicator stalk is on.
magicboy said:
Mirror THEN signal THEN manoeuvre.
I prefer indicator stalks on the same side as the gear lever and think it should be made law. It stops the wallies who decide to indicate, brake and turn at the same time. Follow the Highway Code and it doesn't matter what side the indicator stalk is on.
And when the indicator cancels whilst manoevering? And when you're driving a truck with 12 or 16 ratios, and whether you like it or not you HAVE to manouvre before signalling, because you're manouvre is so long that to do otherwise would give a misleading signal? And when the indicator cancels 3 times whilst coming down the gearbox whilst 40 tons up? And when the junction is complicated, like the multi-laned, multi-traffic lit, incorrectly marked out monstrosities which are prevalent in my neck of the woods, where the locals do one thing and the non-locals do another, whereby a signal at precisely the right time makes all the difference, but you're gear changing depends on how the lights are working out?I prefer indicator stalks on the same side as the gear lever and think it should be made law. It stops the wallies who decide to indicate, brake and turn at the same time. Follow the Highway Code and it doesn't matter what side the indicator stalk is on.
You want the indicator on the wrong side by law? So presumably we're the only country in step then, and its the whole rest of the planet that has it wrong?
iLiekCarz said:
Never ever had this problem with any car I have ever driven.
No, that's fair enough, and when I'm driving my car I wouldn't say it was a problem either. But not every vehicle on the roads is a car.I've got 2 cars with the indicator on the right, and 2 with them on the left, and I'm always aware of how much nicer it is with them on the right, so you can carry out the different tasks with different hands and have a much nicer degree of control if you like to think about this sort of stuff whilst driving.
I'm also very aware of how in this country we have all but given up on indicating. I recall being in Spain where the driving was a tad wild but noticed how people still indicate, and even in southern Italy, where they drove on the pavements, drove through red lights, drove the wrong way round roundabouts, drove on the wrong side of the road, drove the wrong way down one-way streets, overtook against on coming traffic, all that sort of thing, yet quaintly, still used their indicators to greater degree than we do. (Haven't driven in spain or Italy for some time now so it might all have changed for all I know).
I drive in France a lot, and apart from their high speed tailgating, I think the French drive better than we do, they have much better lane control and they use their indicators a lot.
In this country I find I am often having to bring my 40 ton truck to a halt unnecessarily, or have to slow down more than I need to at roundabouts, because of car drivers who turn right without indicating, or basically just don't use their indicators at all, so I can't read their movements and drive my vehicle accordingly. And of course, if I think I can do so safely, I use the fact that they're not indicating as an excuse to go on the roundabout anyway, so when they turn right without indicating they then have to come to a halt or near halt, 'cos I'm blocking their way. Then these non-indicating motorists will often lean on their horn, but thats up to them. For them its mirror (possibly), manouvre, horn. Signal rarely comes into it.
So I've given a bit of thought to why we don't indicate on the whole in this country, and one thing is that we have our indicator stalks on the same side as the gear lever, as opposed to everyone else who doesn't. I've no doubt whatsoever that the vast majority of drivers are not even aware of this, but they're also most certainly not aware that they don't indicate. I think its a subconcious thing, they are carrying out a manouvre, they have to use the left hand to change gear, so they just forget about indicating.
The mirror signal manouvre thing is not always right and people shouldn't drive by rote, they should drive according to the conditions. There are times when an indicate at just the precise right time makes all the differece, like when there are two left turnings close together, you're taking the second turning but if you followed the highway code you'd give the impression that you're taking the first. And there's times when I'm out having a hoon, and not following every tenant of the highway code, ahem, and yes I'm changing gear mid manouvre, and its nice to indicate with my right hand - well, fingers actually, whilst keeping my hand on the wheel whilst the left changes gear. Its just nicer, better, more sensible, its common sense, why on earth would you do it any other way, it would be stupid to do so, etc. Its enlighteneing to learn that someone actually thinks the stalks should be on the wrong side by law.
We're insular in this country, we're not interested in how they do things elsewhere, and without a doubt, 95% of the drivers out there wouldn't know that there indicator stalk is on the wrong side, and as they don't indicate anyway, they wouldn't care.
Heebeegeetee said:
I'm also very aware of how in this country we have all but given up on indicating.
And yet, the advanced driving organisations discourage signalling as a matter of habit. Personally I don't find their justification for this policy at all convincing, but that's their policy.GreenV8S said:
Heebeegeetee said:
I'm also very aware of how in this country we have all but given up on indicating.
And yet, the advanced driving organisations discourage signalling as a matter of habit. Personally I don't find their justification for this policy at all convincing, but that's their policy.It's all very well saying that only signalling when appropriate leads us to improve our observation, but if, for any reason, the observation is inadequate, and you've elected not to give a signal, and there is a mishap as a result, you might then wish you had given the much maligned automatic signal, in which case somebody may have had the opportunity to help you out.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
...I think this might be my first post here. I confess to "lurking" for a week or so, may I say you have a very enjoyable forum full of great info and entertaining debate, none more than this thread.
If I may inject a Yank's observation here, (Oh, not another one...) I've had the pleasure of driving all over the world and have found that there are certain countries where you find this phenomenon of oddly placed stalks. One of those of course, being the U.K.. Driving in the U.S., you find that all the indicator stalks, foreign and domestic, are on the left side, (being outboard for LHD). In Japan, all of the cars have their stalks on the right side, (also outboard for RHD) The respective preference is I believe, mandated in both countries, as it's invariable from model to model, and also opposite for each country on the same model. I think the reason the stalk is placed on the outboard side of the steering wheel is to accomodate those vehicles having shift levers mounted on the column. This arrangement, logical from a manufacturing standpoint (but not so much anymore with decreasing popularity of column shifts), isn't particularly cost effective, since the same column can't be used in both RHD and LHD countries, but since it's mandated, those two example countries enjoy a standardised configuration, which is as it should be.
Perhaps the U.K. has decided it unnecessary to mandate such standard placement, in favor of lower cost imported cars. Thus, your confusing situation. It seems I drove an Opel in Italy which had LHD but the indicator stalk was on the right side, or inboard. To me it was confusing, and I was back to signalling with the wipers, but driving on the right. To be honest, I'm really not sure what side what was on, and someone would have to refresh my memory as to the proper side of the road for Italy, even though I remember everyone using both most of the time.
I believe the stalks' OUTBOARD location is safer and more logical, in itself standardized and easier to learn as an automatic reflex. (though I remember most of us G.I.s signalling with wipers for the first half of our tour in Japan, and none of us know right from left anymore as a result of the trauma experienced while entering the car from the wrong side, then fishing through the glovebox to cover our embarrasment before hopping over to the driver's seat. Just after that, plunging headlong into oncoming traffic after mis-negotiating the turn to the wrong side from the parking lot).
As to the decreased rate of signal usage, it seems to be epidemic on this side of the pond as well. It stuck me once that people must think: "Everyone knows me, and I go this way every day. They all know I'm about to turn" Perhaps both our countries are filled with people who have lots of friends!
If I may inject a Yank's observation here, (Oh, not another one...) I've had the pleasure of driving all over the world and have found that there are certain countries where you find this phenomenon of oddly placed stalks. One of those of course, being the U.K.. Driving in the U.S., you find that all the indicator stalks, foreign and domestic, are on the left side, (being outboard for LHD). In Japan, all of the cars have their stalks on the right side, (also outboard for RHD) The respective preference is I believe, mandated in both countries, as it's invariable from model to model, and also opposite for each country on the same model. I think the reason the stalk is placed on the outboard side of the steering wheel is to accomodate those vehicles having shift levers mounted on the column. This arrangement, logical from a manufacturing standpoint (but not so much anymore with decreasing popularity of column shifts), isn't particularly cost effective, since the same column can't be used in both RHD and LHD countries, but since it's mandated, those two example countries enjoy a standardised configuration, which is as it should be.
Perhaps the U.K. has decided it unnecessary to mandate such standard placement, in favor of lower cost imported cars. Thus, your confusing situation. It seems I drove an Opel in Italy which had LHD but the indicator stalk was on the right side, or inboard. To me it was confusing, and I was back to signalling with the wipers, but driving on the right. To be honest, I'm really not sure what side what was on, and someone would have to refresh my memory as to the proper side of the road for Italy, even though I remember everyone using both most of the time.
I believe the stalks' OUTBOARD location is safer and more logical, in itself standardized and easier to learn as an automatic reflex. (though I remember most of us G.I.s signalling with wipers for the first half of our tour in Japan, and none of us know right from left anymore as a result of the trauma experienced while entering the car from the wrong side, then fishing through the glovebox to cover our embarrasment before hopping over to the driver's seat. Just after that, plunging headlong into oncoming traffic after mis-negotiating the turn to the wrong side from the parking lot).
As to the decreased rate of signal usage, it seems to be epidemic on this side of the pond as well. It stuck me once that people must think: "Everyone knows me, and I go this way every day. They all know I'm about to turn" Perhaps both our countries are filled with people who have lots of friends!
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