A question of speed
Discussion
vonhosen said:
Does AD say that NSLs should be treated in a questioned way ?
No, AD and it's practitioners would never question those who decide what section of any highway should be an NSL.Or be reduced from NSL to a lower limit.
For we understand that there are those who know better.
As they so often tell us.
Not just with regard to driving.
Me good plebe.
TripleS said:
Dr Jekyll said:
saxmund said:
NSL means "the maximum safe speed is at least 70, it might be more but we're not allowed to tell you that".
On major roads sure, but I know plenty of single carriageway NSLs where 40 would be pushing it.Best wishes all,
Dave.
When I did my advanced motorcycling training many more years ago than I care to think of the police riders who taught us explained that NSL meant No Sodding Limit... You can't say fairer than that
WhoseGeneration said:
vonhosen said:
Does AD say that NSLs should be treated in a questioned way ?
No, AD and it's practitioners would never question those who decide what section of any highway should be an NSL.Or be reduced from NSL to a lower limit.
For we understand that there are those who know better.
As they so often tell us.
Not just with regard to driving.
Me good plebe.
vonhosen said:
WhoseGeneration said:
vonhosen said:
Oh right, so it's nothing to do with AD then.
It isn't. NSL and the lower ones are mandatory, unless, as for some, such as yourself and the OP, certain exemptions apply in the execution of their professional duties.AD, for others, is merely a pastime they choose to follow.
A pastime barely recognised by those in charge.
Otherwise it would be the standard to which all drivers are tested.
Sorry, doesn't appear how it did when I replied.
Weird site sometimes!
Edited by WhoseGeneration on Monday 25th June 23:18
Congratulations and welcome back.
Interesting what you say about the ringed limits. Until I started taking my driving more seriously - about the time I started hanging around here - I stuck religiously to the posted non nsl limits, even where I *knew* I wasn't going to be caught if I exceeded the limit.
I then spent 3 months in Italy where speed limits are not enforced at all. I still don't really know what the motorway limit is. I got used to driving *only* to the conditions, not the limit. I felt like a better driver. More aware and more engaged. 2 weeks back and I can feel the passive British speed limit slave creeping back. It won't be long before I'm bimbling along in lane 2 doing 65 just to be sure I am not going to break the law.
The interesting thing was that on restricted limit roads, in average traffic conditions, and fair weather, the speed of the average motorist was not far off the posted limit, and changed as conditions allowed.
Wonder how many people aquaplaned into a tree today whilst concentrating on staying below the limit, not driving to the conditions? (For the historical record, it rained a buggery lot today. Standing water everywhere)
Interesting what you say about the ringed limits. Until I started taking my driving more seriously - about the time I started hanging around here - I stuck religiously to the posted non nsl limits, even where I *knew* I wasn't going to be caught if I exceeded the limit.
I then spent 3 months in Italy where speed limits are not enforced at all. I still don't really know what the motorway limit is. I got used to driving *only* to the conditions, not the limit. I felt like a better driver. More aware and more engaged. 2 weeks back and I can feel the passive British speed limit slave creeping back. It won't be long before I'm bimbling along in lane 2 doing 65 just to be sure I am not going to break the law.
The interesting thing was that on restricted limit roads, in average traffic conditions, and fair weather, the speed of the average motorist was not far off the posted limit, and changed as conditions allowed.
Wonder how many people aquaplaned into a tree today whilst concentrating on staying below the limit, not driving to the conditions? (For the historical record, it rained a buggery lot today. Standing water everywhere)
vonhosen said:
Does AD say that NSLs should be treated in a questioned way ?
Now Von, I have the greatest respect for your experience and encyclopaedic knowledge of traffic law, but is that comment serious?No organisation would be daft enough to put it in writing, but we're mostly big boys and girls here, and we know that once you get above IAM level then often NSL=GLF (if appropriate and safe).
I'm just wondering why this widespread attitude isn't applied to red-ringed limits.
(With apologies to Reg for dragging his thread in this direction.)
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
vonhosen said:
Does AD say that NSLs should be treated in a questioned way ?
Now Von, I have the greatest respect for your experience and encyclopaedic knowledge of traffic law, but is that comment serious?No organisation would be daft enough to put it in writing, but we're mostly big boys and girls here, and we know that once you get above IAM level then often NSL=GLF (if appropriate and safe).
I'm just wondering why this widespread attitude isn't applied to red-ringed limits.
(With apologies to Reg for dragging his thread in this direction.)
Advanced driving organisations do not endorse or condone breaking of any limits.
The IAM etc were born out of/had strong early associations with Police driving schools. At least their examiners were Police officers and that is how those officer's training had been run, (observing posted limits but not constrained in NSLs) of course with the use of legal exemptions though in relation to NSLs.
Because that's how their training was run, some of the individuals concerned have just tried to parrot fashion what they were taught (of course without the availability of an exemption though), but in breach of the official policy of the organisation.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 26th June 00:52
vonhosen said:
Because that's how their training was run, some of the individuals concerned have just tried to parrot fashion what they were taught (of course without the availability of an exemption though), but in breach of the official policy of the organisation.
It doesn't seem likely to me that all these trainers were being cavalier about the speed limit out of ignorance. More likely that they truly did not believe that strict compliance with the limit was important to advanced driving because they had not had the politically correct propaganda hammered into them for enough years. 
GreenV8S said:
vonhosen said:
Because that's how their training was run, some of the individuals concerned have just tried to parrot fashion what they were taught (of course without the availability of an exemption though), but in breach of the official policy of the organisation.
It doesn't seem likely to me that all these trainers were being cavalier about the speed limit out of ignorance. More likely that they truly did not believe that strict compliance with the limit was important to advanced driving because they had not had the politically correct propaganda hammered into them for enough years. It was always my impression that in their early days they were all driving enthusiasts, to whom safe high speed driving was an important element of their developing expertise and enjoyment.
I fully accept that the present day IAM membership still has a considerable enthusiast content, but IMHO things have clearly changed with regard to general driving philosophy, certainly as far as open road driving is concerned, and it has not been a change for the better.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Congrats on getting wed Reg!
I was thinking about your post on the way home regarding not breaking posted limits versus being happy to break NSL limits. It also depends on your definition of breaking them.
Anyway, I don't share your view that most of the posted limits are about right and thus in that respect deserve to be observed. Around me in the glorious SE, limits have come tumbling. So I was thinking about this, this evening on the road from Cobham to Esher. It is a huge wide A road with some turnings and dwellings but brilliant visibility. It used to be NSL between the 30's at either end that finished shortly outside the built up towny bits.
It has been attended to by the speed limit authorities. So the 30's go on for ever outside the towny bits (esp at the cobham end), then it goes up to 40, then 50 then 40 then 30.
I cannot understand the rationale of the limits and to the extent that I break speed limits, would def want to do that along that road.
This seems to be the case all around here, loads of the NSL roads have been reduced to 40. I just dont geddit! It just makes me want to break the limits deliberately!
Bert
I was thinking about your post on the way home regarding not breaking posted limits versus being happy to break NSL limits. It also depends on your definition of breaking them.
Anyway, I don't share your view that most of the posted limits are about right and thus in that respect deserve to be observed. Around me in the glorious SE, limits have come tumbling. So I was thinking about this, this evening on the road from Cobham to Esher. It is a huge wide A road with some turnings and dwellings but brilliant visibility. It used to be NSL between the 30's at either end that finished shortly outside the built up towny bits.
It has been attended to by the speed limit authorities. So the 30's go on for ever outside the towny bits (esp at the cobham end), then it goes up to 40, then 50 then 40 then 30.
I cannot understand the rationale of the limits and to the extent that I break speed limits, would def want to do that along that road.
This seems to be the case all around here, loads of the NSL roads have been reduced to 40. I just dont geddit! It just makes me want to break the limits deliberately!
Bert
BertBert said:
Congrats on getting wed Reg!
I was thinking about your post on the way home regarding not breaking posted limits versus being happy to break NSL limits. It also depends on your definition of breaking them.
Anyway, I don't share your view that most of the posted limits are about right and thus in that respect deserve to be observed. Around me in the glorious SE, limits have come tumbling. So I was thinking about this, this evening on the road from Cobham to Esher. It is a huge wide A road with some turnings and dwellings but brilliant visibility. It used to be NSL between the 30's at either end that finished shortly outside the built up towny bits.
It has been attended to by the speed limit authorities. So the 30's go on for ever outside the towny bits (esp at the cobham end), then it goes up to 40, then 50 then 40 then 30.
I cannot understand the rationale of the limits and to the extent that I break speed limits, would def want to do that along that road.
This seems to be the case all around here, loads of the NSL roads have been reduced to 40. I just dont geddit! It just makes me want to break the limits deliberately!
Bert
Well, you Sir, do not understand the modern, caring, sharing, NewLabour World.I was thinking about your post on the way home regarding not breaking posted limits versus being happy to break NSL limits. It also depends on your definition of breaking them.
Anyway, I don't share your view that most of the posted limits are about right and thus in that respect deserve to be observed. Around me in the glorious SE, limits have come tumbling. So I was thinking about this, this evening on the road from Cobham to Esher. It is a huge wide A road with some turnings and dwellings but brilliant visibility. It used to be NSL between the 30's at either end that finished shortly outside the built up towny bits.
It has been attended to by the speed limit authorities. So the 30's go on for ever outside the towny bits (esp at the cobham end), then it goes up to 40, then 50 then 40 then 30.
I cannot understand the rationale of the limits and to the extent that I break speed limits, would def want to do that along that road.
This seems to be the case all around here, loads of the NSL roads have been reduced to 40. I just dont geddit! It just makes me want to break the limits deliberately!
Bert
"They" know best, and will legislate for that.
You will obey.
Many will be employed to ensure this.
WhoseGeneration said:
BertBert said:
Congrats on getting wed Reg!
I was thinking about your post on the way home regarding not breaking posted limits versus being happy to break NSL limits. It also depends on your definition of breaking them.
Anyway, I don't share your view that most of the posted limits are about right and thus in that respect deserve to be observed. Around me in the glorious SE, limits have come tumbling. So I was thinking about this, this evening on the road from Cobham to Esher. It is a huge wide A road with some turnings and dwellings but brilliant visibility. It used to be NSL between the 30's at either end that finished shortly outside the built up towny bits.
It has been attended to by the speed limit authorities. So the 30's go on for ever outside the towny bits (esp at the cobham end), then it goes up to 40, then 50 then 40 then 30.
I cannot understand the rationale of the limits and to the extent that I break speed limits, would def want to do that along that road.
This seems to be the case all around here, loads of the NSL roads have been reduced to 40. I just dont geddit! It just makes me want to break the limits deliberately!
Bert
Well, you Sir, do not understand the modern, caring, sharing, NewLabour World.I was thinking about your post on the way home regarding not breaking posted limits versus being happy to break NSL limits. It also depends on your definition of breaking them.
Anyway, I don't share your view that most of the posted limits are about right and thus in that respect deserve to be observed. Around me in the glorious SE, limits have come tumbling. So I was thinking about this, this evening on the road from Cobham to Esher. It is a huge wide A road with some turnings and dwellings but brilliant visibility. It used to be NSL between the 30's at either end that finished shortly outside the built up towny bits.
It has been attended to by the speed limit authorities. So the 30's go on for ever outside the towny bits (esp at the cobham end), then it goes up to 40, then 50 then 40 then 30.
I cannot understand the rationale of the limits and to the extent that I break speed limits, would def want to do that along that road.
This seems to be the case all around here, loads of the NSL roads have been reduced to 40. I just dont geddit! It just makes me want to break the limits deliberately!
Bert
"They" know best, and will legislate for that.
You will obey.
Many will be employed to ensure this.
Bert
Great post. Very close to my own sentiments.
When out on the great open Scottish A and B roads I often find great pleasure in extending the (modest) performance of my car and appreciate fully that on many of them the speed limit has very little relevance to my driving. By this I mean that often I must slow to very low speeds and sometimes 2nd gear to remain safe and comfortable, other times, I do not.
what I find fascinating about open and quiet NSL's is that I am always adapting my speed and never really have a cruise speed. There are occasions where I realise that perhaps I was a bit to quick there or more accurately did not slow down soon enough and I have a 'tut tut' to myself.
Luckily I rarely have to be anywhere by a certain time that involves having to rush and, on occasions where it has been done in the past I have noticed the detrimental effect it has on my driving.
Unfortunately even my friends criticise me for driving too fast (not when they are in the car though) yet I watch them on drives picking a speed, settling in and failing to adapt to constantly varying conditions. This seems to be a general public view.
When out on the great open Scottish A and B roads I often find great pleasure in extending the (modest) performance of my car and appreciate fully that on many of them the speed limit has very little relevance to my driving. By this I mean that often I must slow to very low speeds and sometimes 2nd gear to remain safe and comfortable, other times, I do not.
what I find fascinating about open and quiet NSL's is that I am always adapting my speed and never really have a cruise speed. There are occasions where I realise that perhaps I was a bit to quick there or more accurately did not slow down soon enough and I have a 'tut tut' to myself.
Luckily I rarely have to be anywhere by a certain time that involves having to rush and, on occasions where it has been done in the past I have noticed the detrimental effect it has on my driving.
Unfortunately even my friends criticise me for driving too fast (not when they are in the car though) yet I watch them on drives picking a speed, settling in and failing to adapt to constantly varying conditions. This seems to be a general public view.
Interesting thread this, especially taking account of the OP's profession.
Then we have another representative of that profession in the thread.
Reminds me of my good friend "diff lock", in his motorcycle days.
IAM member, Observer too, invited out by the Class One who conducted his IAM test, to attend a trackday.
Mix of Civvy and Class Ones, on their bikes, riding to the Race circuit.
Well, lots of leptons and knees down on the way, my friend reported.
Then we have another representative of that profession in the thread.
Reminds me of my good friend "diff lock", in his motorcycle days.
IAM member, Observer too, invited out by the Class One who conducted his IAM test, to attend a trackday.
Mix of Civvy and Class Ones, on their bikes, riding to the Race circuit.
Well, lots of leptons and knees down on the way, my friend reported.
I drive a TVR, compete in motorsport and believe that the obsession with speed and speed cameras is not conducive to improving road safety.
However, I read some posts in other forums and some of the attitudes expressed make me wonder if the SCPs have a point. Some of the pro-speeding views expressed are actually so rabid, unthinking and in denial of all personal responsibility that I think they could easily persuade neutrals reading to ignore the more sensible views expressed by Reg and others
I get the feeling from this thread I am not alone in worrying about this.
Obviously if I post this in other forums I would get heavily flamed.
However, I read some posts in other forums and some of the attitudes expressed make me wonder if the SCPs have a point. Some of the pro-speeding views expressed are actually so rabid, unthinking and in denial of all personal responsibility that I think they could easily persuade neutrals reading to ignore the more sensible views expressed by Reg and others
I get the feeling from this thread I am not alone in worrying about this.
Obviously if I post this in other forums I would get heavily flamed.
Edited by chris_tivver on Thursday 28th June 23:18
chris_tivver said:
Some of the pro-speeding views expressed are actually so rabid, unthinking and in denial of all personal responsibility that I think they could easily persuade neutrals reading to ignore the more sensible views expressed by Reg and others.
Unfortunately I know for a fact that this has happened on several occasions. Some drivers have been switched off by the comments along the lines of "I can speed and if a young kid dies it's his fault", etc.Shame really.
BFF
Big Fat F'r said:
chris_tivver said:
Some of the pro-speeding views expressed are actually so rabid, unthinking and in denial of all personal responsibility that I think they could easily persuade neutrals reading to ignore the more sensible views expressed by Reg and others.
Unfortunately I know for a fact that this has happened on several occasions. Some drivers have been switched off by the comments along the lines of "I can speed and if a young kid dies it's his fault", etc.Shame really.
BFF
The Griffalo said:
Big Fat F'r said:
chris_tivver said:
Some of the pro-speeding views expressed are actually so rabid, unthinking and in denial of all personal responsibility that I think they could easily persuade neutrals reading to ignore the more sensible views expressed by Reg and others.
Unfortunately I know for a fact that this has happened on several occasions. Some drivers have been switched off by the comments along the lines of "I can speed and if a young kid dies it's his fault", etc.Shame really.
BFF
BFF
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