Too many points to be an Advanced Driver

[Heebeegeetee]

So let me get this right...

Somebody clocks up a load of points, realises he needs to address his poor driving, but the IAM won't touch him because he's a poor driver? The IAM aren't willing to help drivers like this, nor help society in making the roads safer by raising the standards of the drivers who need it most?

[TripleS]

7db said:

TripleS said:

Yes I know, not all IAM members are like that by any means, and all credit to them.

Aren't you still a member?

I'm still an Associate, and that's as far as I shall get, but after next January I shall not even be that. Regrettably I came to the conclusion that I don't really belong in the IAM at any level.

I think I could have been able to relate to the IAM as it was in the late 1950s or early 1960s, but for most of the time since then I've just not felt comfortable with their overall philosophy. In my opinion they should have put up a strong fight against the NSL from day one, but so far as I'm aware they never did, and they don't seem likely to do it now.

It looks to me like an organisation that's falling far short of its potential, and I find that rather sad.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[ipsg.glf]

Vaux said:

ipsg.glf said:

Another example of why the IAM is completely irrelevant. They only seek to protect their market share.

That's a little harsh?
And they seek to expand their "market share".

Apparently they now have a scheme whereby people can become a member of the IAM without actually taking an advanced test. It is nothing to do with road safety but everything to do with cross-selling products and services to gullible people.

[Vaux]

Heebeegeetee said:

So let me get this right...

Well, you didn't get it right.

You can be an Associate and take all the Observing you need to help improve your driving (which is why you would be doing it?). There's normally a time limit of 6 or 12 months though.

You just can't drive round with a serving/ex copper for an hour and get a certificate. Not till your points have dropped off.

[Heebeegeetee]

Vaux said:

Heebeegeetee said:

So let me get this right...

Well, you didn't get it right.

You can be an Associate and take all the Observing you need to help improve your driving (which is why you would be doing it?). There's normally a time limit of 6 or 12 months though.

You just can't drive round with a serving/ex copper for an hour and get a certificate. Not till your points have dropped off.

So they'll teach you but not test you?

[Vaux]

Heebeegeetee said:

So they'll teach you but not test you?

Yep. I think this has to be - as an organization promoting road safety, it would be crass not to take on all who showed an interest. It's an internal decision whether to allow anybody to become a full member though?

I don't make the rules. (And I might not even by completely correct with all this - I'll check).

But you get "tested" before being allowed to apply for a final "test" by way off a mock test.

So, you'd get everything a <9 point person would get, except the final drive and a certificate. Shirley the preparation (theory and practical) is what's important, not a piece of paper?

And it get's more interesting. A member can apply for a further driving assessment (called the "Special Assessment" ) But you can't even apply if you have only 3 points.

Edit - apparently you can have up to 6 points, but none should have been added in the two years prior to applying for the Assessment test.

(For anyone who's interested! )

Edited by Vaux on Thursday 23 August 19:09

[WhoseGeneration]

The IAM has become yet another example of an organisation interested only in it's own survival.
Think biology.
It therefore has to bow to the prevalent ethos.
We all know what that is.

[Vaux]

ipsg.glf said:

Apparently they now have a scheme whereby people can become a member of the IAM without actually taking an advanced test. It is nothing to do with road safety but everything to do with cross-selling products and services to gullible people.

Another viewpoint could be that with a bigger membership base (Associates and Full Members), the IAM would have more clout in advising HMG on road safety issues.

[markmullen]

ipsg.glf said:

Vaux said:

ipsg.glf said:

Another example of why the IAM is completely irrelevant. They only seek to protect their market share.

That's a little harsh?
And they seek to expand their "market share".

Apparently they now have a scheme whereby people can become a member of the IAM without actually taking an advanced test. It is nothing to do with road safety but everything to do with cross-selling products and services to gullible people.

In fairness you are not a full member of the IAM, that only comes when you have passed your test (or are in the group of people who are exempt from having to take the test, Police Advanced Drivers, Military Driving Examiners etc). This Associate status is intended for people who are in the process of preparing to take their test in order that they receive mailouts and the magazine, rather than as an alternative to full membership.

[Vaux]

markmullen said:

This Associate status is intended for people who are in the process of preparing to take their test in order that they receive mailouts and the magazine, rather than as an alternative to full membership.

But they can also get on the forum, which used to be members only; they can buy stuff from the "shop" (albeit not with an IAM logo) and more:

(from the IAM website)

"As a Member or Associate of the IAM you can enjoy a wide range of benefits and discounts all carefully chosen to help you get more from your driving or motorcycling.

These include discounts on everything from breakdown assistance and windscreen replacement – to tyres, exhausts and brakes; from car hire, hotels and airport parking – to financial services."

So it's attractive to become an Associate.

[7db]

I assume all this is consistent with their charitable status and the enerous tax break we all give them

[ipsg.glf]

Vaux said:

ipsg.glf said:

Apparently they now have a scheme whereby people can become a member of the IAM without actually taking an advanced test. It is nothing to do with road safety but everything to do with cross-selling products and services to gullible people.

Another viewpoint could be that with a bigger membership base (Associates and Full Members), the IAM would have more clout in advising HMG on road safety issues.

Do you honestly think that if the IAM had 5m or 10m or 20m members it would make one jot of difference to HMG's Road Safety policy?

[vonhosen]

ipsg.glf said:

Vaux said:

ipsg.glf said:

Apparently they now have a scheme whereby people can become a member of the IAM without actually taking an advanced test. It is nothing to do with road safety but everything to do with cross-selling products and services to gullible people.

Another viewpoint could be that with a bigger membership base (Associates and Full Members), the IAM would have more clout in advising HMG on road safety issues.

Do you honestly think that if the IAM had 5m or 10m or 20m members it would make one jot of difference to HMG's Road Safety policy?

What driving club do you think has more clout or a higher profile ?
I personally think if they had 20m members they would have a hell of a lot of clout.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 24th August 09:38

[BOF]

Our Group have a young drivers scheme* which attracts around 100 15 and 16s every month...we also refund the full £75 to 21 and under and £40 to 25 and under if they join and pass the Test...Essex Traffic have made a substantial donation to this

Off road* in a business park, £20 for an hour with ADIs from Dice - Driving Instructors Club of Essex - ADIs get guaranteed feed of youngsters and pick them up when they start on road training.

We have an IAM punter handing out bumf to the parents who drive the kids to the venue - we capture some.

Kids get through the DVLA test more quickly and are at least aware of the existence of the IAM.

Now if this was rolled out nationally, using some of the Camera Partnership money...who knows?

BOF.

[vonhosen]

BOF said:

Our Group have a young drivers scheme* which attracts around 100 15 and 16s every month...we also refund the full £75 to 21 and under and £40 to 25 and under if they join and pass the Test...Essex Traffic have made a substantial donation to this

Off road* in a business park, £20 for an hour with ADIs from Dice - Driving Instructors Club of Essex - ADIs get guaranteed feed of youngsters and pick them up when they start on road training.

We have an IAM punter handing out bumf to the parents who drive the kids to the venue - we capture some.

Kids get through the DVLA test more quickly and are at least aware of the existence of the IAM.

Now if this was rolled out nationally, using some of the Camera Partnership money...who knows?

BOF.

This year I would imagine they would be at liberty to use money for that kind of purpose.

[ipsg.glf]

vonhosen said:

ipsg.glf said:

Vaux said:

ipsg.glf said:

Apparently they now have a scheme whereby people can become a member of the IAM without actually taking an advanced test. It is nothing to do with road safety but everything to do with cross-selling products and services to gullible people.

Another viewpoint could be that with a bigger membership base (Associates and Full Members), the IAM would have more clout in advising HMG on road safety issues.

Do you honestly think that if the IAM had 5m or 10m or 20m members it would make one jot of difference to HMG's Road Safety policy?

What driving club do you think has more clout or a higher profile ?
I personally think if they had 20m members they would have a hell of a lot of clout.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 24th August 09:38

So road safety policy should be dictated by who has the largest organisation?

[BOF]

""So road safety policy should be dictated by who has the largest organisation?""

Dictated - NO

Influenced - YES

Cheaper and more effective than spending a few more £ millions on more 'consultants'?

BOF.

[vonhosen]

ipsg.glf said:

vonhosen said:

ipsg.glf said:

Vaux said:

ipsg.glf said:

Apparently they now have a scheme whereby people can become a member of the IAM without actually taking an advanced test. It is nothing to do with road safety but everything to do with cross-selling products and services to gullible people.

Another viewpoint could be that with a bigger membership base (Associates and Full Members), the IAM would have more clout in advising HMG on road safety issues.

Do you honestly think that if the IAM had 5m or 10m or 20m members it would make one jot of difference to HMG's Road Safety policy?

What driving club do you think has more clout or a higher profile ?
I personally think if they had 20m members they would have a hell of a lot of clout.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 24th August 09:38

So road safety policy should be dictated by who has the largest organisation?

That's 20m voters, that's enough to get any governments attention.

If 20m pensioners got together & lobbied the government on childcare issues, they'd get listened to (as BOF says it doesn't mean they'll dictate, but they can influence).

You might not like that, but it's the way of the world. There is power with numbers who have a common cause.

[ipsg.glf]

vonhosen said:

ipsg.glf said:

vonhosen said:

ipsg.glf said:

Vaux said:

ipsg.glf said:

Apparently they now have a scheme whereby people can become a member of the IAM without actually taking an advanced test. It is nothing to do with road safety but everything to do with cross-selling products and services to gullible people.

Another viewpoint could be that with a bigger membership base (Associates and Full Members), the IAM would have more clout in advising HMG on road safety issues.

Do you honestly think that if the IAM had 5m or 10m or 20m members it would make one jot of difference to HMG's Road Safety policy?

What driving club do you think has more clout or a higher profile ?
I personally think if they had 20m members they would have a hell of a lot of clout.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 24th August 09:38

So road safety policy should be dictated by who has the largest organisation?

That's 20m voters, that's enough to get any governments attention.

If 20m pensioners got together & lobbied the government on childcare issues, they'd get listened to (as BOF says it doesn't mean they'll dictate, but they can influence).

You might not like that, but it's the way of the world. There is power with numbers who have a common cause.

Let's worry about what influence the IAM may or may not have when they get their 20m members.

[Gromit37]

ipsg.glf: So you think we should just get rid of the IAM, because as a charity, it sells goods in a shop and it doesn't like it's members setting a bad example? Oh, and it doesn't have 20 million members. I'm not a member, associate or otherwise, but if they are reducing the number or severity of accidents, then I say that's a good thing.