IAM and lane changes

[Coyoteboy]

Two IAM drivers I know now have independently told me that the IAM suggests remaining in whatever lane you are in unless a car approaches from behind, as changing lanes is a major cause of accidents. Now I can sort of see the logic, but I'm not sure I agree with it. Can anyone comment on the validity of the statement, both from a practical and an IAM perspective?

[TripleS]

Coyoteboy said:

Two IAM drivers I know now have independently told me that the IAM suggests remaining in whatever lane you are in unless a car approaches from behind, as changing lanes is a major cause of accidents. Now I can sort of see the logic, but I'm not sure I agree with it. Can anyone comment on the validity of the statement, both from a practical and an IAM perspective?

It sounds rather questionable advice to me. Obviously changing lanes can be a source of trouble, but what they're saying seems likely to encourage the hogging of lanes to the right of where we should be, and I don't really think we want that.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[A - W]

If I may refer the OP to the HC:

Lane discipline

238: You should drive in the left-hand lane if the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower moving vehicles it may be safer to remain in the centre or outer lanes until the manoeuvre is completed rather than continually changing lanes. Return to the left-hand lane once you have overtaken all the vehicles or if you are delaying traffic behind you. Slow moving or speed restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by signs.
MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9 & 16(1)(a) & MT(S)R regs 4, 8 & 14(1)(a)

[Coyoteboy]

Hmm yes, that was my conclusions too but I think the students are indeed taking it as a justification for lane hogging - im sure the instructors are not intending it that way. Unfortunately now the word is getting around non-IAM drivers that this is the IAM advice and ive had it "used against me" when ive commented on another drivers hogging.

[A - W]

Well I would ask for it to be raised either at observer training night/monthly meeting/commitee meeting etc and iron it out so people are singing from the same tune.

I think the key circumstance though is if the is "no one following".

[mph999]

Coyoteboy said:

Two IAM drivers I know now have independently told me that the IAM suggests remaining in whatever lane you are in unless a car approaches from behind, as changing lanes is a major cause of accidents. Now I can sort of see the logic, but I'm not sure I agree with it. Can anyone comment on the validity of the statement, both from a practical and an IAM perspective?

From a ... changing lanes is a major cause of accidents point of view, and I'll be blunt.

This is "advanced driving", therefore we should be able to do simple thing s like changing lanes with absolutly no danger at all.

I'll stick my neck out here. I am 100% confident I could go out and change lanes all day and naot cause a single accident ever, why, because I use 360 degtree observation, and check mirrors + blindspot before I do so, therefore for me, as far as I am concernerd a lane change is fundamental.

I do believe, that this is another case of "dumbing down".

There may be a reason not to change lanes of course, when following a vehicle for example, an offset position, if safe, may be useful to increase observation at times, but this is a separate issue.

I mean, the IAM doesn't like "offsiding", now we can't change lanes, what's next. Very soon the IAM standard will be below DSA.

FAst is approaching the day I jack the IAM in for other driving ventures that actually offer an expected standard of driving that is "really advanced" and takes some skill.

Martin

[BOF]

Coyoteboy said:

Two IAM drivers I know now have independently told me that the IAM suggests remaining in whatever lane you are in unless a car approaches from behind, as changing lanes is a major cause of accidents. Now I can sort of see the logic, but I'm not sure I agree with it. Can anyone comment on the validity of the statement, both from a practical and an IAM perspective?

"Two IAM drivers"...two drivers who have taken and passed the Test?...well done to them, but they are talking, or repeating, boocks.

Read the reply from A-W, IAM advice is clear and unequivocable.

BOF.

[BOF]

MPH,

"I mean, the IAM doesn't like "offsiding", now we can't change lanes, what's next. Very soon the IAM standard will be below DSA."

The IAM does NOT discourage offsiding per se - it discourages offsiding where an untrained driver might be watching you from behind and get into trouble by approaching a bend at your speed, thinking it is a safe speed.

I'm currently being coached for the IAM Special Assesment by our Chief Observer and two Class 1 Trafpols...I can assure you that the safety advantages of offsiding - balance, increased vision,increased THINKING, progress...is very much encouraged...for punters who have taken the time to study the art.

BOF.

PS - MPH...

"FAst is approaching the day I jack the IAM in for other driving ventures that actually offer an expected standard of driving that is "really advanced" and takes some skill."

Not sure if I am 'really advanced' but, as you have done the IAM, how about going for RoSPA? Getting Gold is more challenging than the IAM Test...and the three year re-test keeps you thinking.


BOF.

Edited by BOF on Wednesday 12th September 18:50

[mph999]

BOF said:

MPH,

"I mean, the IAM doesn't like "offsiding", now we can't change lanes, what's next. Very soon the IAM standard will be below DSA."

The IAM does NOT discourage offsiding per se - it discourages offsiding where an untrained driver might be watching you from behind and get into trouble by approaching a bend at your speed, thinking it is a safe speed.

I'm currently being coached for the IAM Special Assesment by our Chief Observer and two Class 1 Trafpols...I can assure you that the safety advantages of offsiding - balance, increased vision,increased THINKING, progress...is very much encouraged...for punters who have taken the time to study the art.

BOF.

PS - MPH...

"FAst is approaching the day I jack the IAM in for other driving ventures that actually offer an expected standard of driving that is "really advanced" and takes some skill."

Not sure if I am 'really advanced' but, as you have done the IAM, how about going for RoSPA? Getting Gold is more challenging than the IAM Test...and the three year re-test keeps you thinking.

Edited by BOF on Wednesday 12th September 18:50

BOF.

Hi BOF, my thoughts are with you on offsiding, considering the advantages.

The examiners in our area in a nutshell have said no to offsiding. Your experience seems to suggest otherwise which shows a lack of consistancey. I did call the HQ (IAM) and asked them directly, yes of no, they would only say they "didn't recommend it".

I'm already RoSPA Gold, but your advice was sound, not that they like offsider either, I rettok my test in Dec. 06 and asked the examiner at the beginning if he would permit it, he said no.

Martin

Edited by mph999 on Thursday 13th September 20:11

[BOF]

Martin,

I ask my IAM and RoSPA Examimers the same question before tests...clearest answer I got was..."OK if you do it 100% safely - if you do it with someone watching I will fail you!"

It is to be expected the HQ could not give its' [i]blessing[i] to offsiding.

Done properly, it increases safety, car sympathy and passenger comfort...have you seen the High Performance Roadcraft DVD by Bespoke?

BOF.

PS - From advice I have received on another Forum from a retired Class 1...next RoSPA retest, maybe if you add "If I call it - is offsiding OK?"

Edited by BOF on Thursday 13th September 17:35

[rasputin]

If there's nobody behind:

1) How dangerous can it really be to change lane?

2) What are you doing in the overtaking lane anyway?

[paulsm]

Stay left unless overtaking - easy.

[gdaybruce]

Coyoteboy said:

Two IAM drivers I know now have independently told me that the IAM suggests remaining in whatever lane you are in unless a car approaches from behind, as changing lanes is a major cause of accidents. Now I can sort of see the logic, but I'm not sure I agree with it. Can anyone comment on the validity of the statement, both from a practical and an IAM perspective?

It sounds to me as though someone is guilty of taking the advice that is now posted on the variable speed limit section of the M25 to stay in lane and applying that to motorway driving in general. The M25 is, in my view, a special case. When the variable limits are posted it is congested and lanes tend to move at their own speed with both over and undertaking the norm. Changing lanes is inevitably more hazardous than usual and the authorities want to discourage people from continually switching lanes to what appears, tenporarily, to be a quicker queue.

Lane discipline for normal motorway driving is, as has been pointed out, spelt out very clearly in the highway code. In my view an advanced driver might position his vehicle for optimum visibility but only if there are no other road users who would be compromised.

[advanceddriver]

paulsm said:

Stay left unless overtaking - easy.

Someone should make some bumper stickers with that on. As it appears 98.6% of drivers have never heard of that rule!

[mph999]

BOF said:

Martin,

I ask my IAM and RoSPA Examimers the same question before tests...clearest answer I got was..."OK if you do it 100% safely - if you do it with someone watching I will fail you!"

It is to be expected the HQ could not give its' [i]blessing[i] to offsiding.

Done properly, it increases safety, car sympathy and passenger comfort...have you seen the High Performance Roadcraft DVD by Bespoke?

BOF.

PS - From advice I have received on another Forum from a retired Class 1...next RoSPA retest, maybe if you add "If I call it - is offsiding OK?"

Edited by BOF on Thursday 13th September 17:35

I've been out with Bespoke ... and got the vids.

Could you explain "From advice I have received on another Forum from a retired Class 1...next RoSPA retest, maybe if you add "If I call it - is offsiding OK?" - think I'm missing the point ???

[BOF]

I understand that 'calling it' is telling the Examiner what you intend to do, as part of your commentary...another example I have recently learned is 'changing gear between incoming traffic'...

Sometimes feel like putting the L plates up again when I hear from the pros!

BOF.

[RobM77]

So, when I'm driving down lane 1 of the motorway and I approach a lorry, I move over to lane 2 to overtake. When I'm past, I move back to lane 1 again, even though there's nothing behind me. Am I doing something wrong?!

[mph999]

RobM77 said:

So, when I'm driving down lane 1 of the motorway and I approach a lorry, I move over to lane 2 to overtake. When I'm past, I move back to lane 1 again, even though there's nothing behind me. Am I doing something wrong?!

No, you're spot on ...

[Hooli]

whats this offsiding being mentioned?
I'm guessing its something like moving to the wrong side of the road for improved view around a left hander?

[R_U_LOCAL]

Hooli said:

whats this offsiding being mentioned?
I'm guessing its something like moving to the wrong side of the road for improved view around a left hander?

There is no "right and wrong" side of the road. In Police advanced driving, we teach students to move as far offside as it's safe on the approach to left-hand bends, to increase your view and extend the radius of the turn.

Sometimes, because of white line systems, limited view, offside hazards etc, then "as far offside as it's safe" is just to the left of the centre-line. On other occasions, it can be just to the left of the offside verge.

I understand where the IAM are coming from in discouraging it if someone is watching, but I don't agree with it. I couldn't care less if other people mis-understand my actions when I'm driving.