Slip road near miss.
Discussion
I was heading south in my car on the A14, It was busy as I approached the roundabout at the A11/A14, I was turning right so not being in a hurry I followed the guy in front down the slip road.
This is where I nearly had a problem, the end of the slip road appears as only one lane I went to join lane one of the A11 at about 3/4 distance, the guy behind me decided to join it at about 1/4 distance then because he couldn't get into lane 2 immediately he tried to race up the outside of me, I saw what he was doing so I played dumb (yes very funny) and nearly removed his rear bumper, my question is.
If we had touched who would be to blame surely there is some sort of etiquette when joining from an on ramp (slip road).
Suppose someone shot up the inside of you when you where leaving the motorway, If the guy behind you dived onto the slip road before you and you then moved left and hit him as he tried to underpass you he would be in the wrong, so what happens when joining?.
This is where I nearly had a problem, the end of the slip road appears as only one lane I went to join lane one of the A11 at about 3/4 distance, the guy behind me decided to join it at about 1/4 distance then because he couldn't get into lane 2 immediately he tried to race up the outside of me, I saw what he was doing so I played dumb (yes very funny) and nearly removed his rear bumper, my question is.
If we had touched who would be to blame surely there is some sort of etiquette when joining from an on ramp (slip road).
Suppose someone shot up the inside of you when you where leaving the motorway, If the guy behind you dived onto the slip road before you and you then moved left and hit him as he tried to underpass you he would be in the wrong, so what happens when joining?.
Your description is a bit confusing.
Are you saying he was behind you on the slip road, got onto the live carriageway before you & you pulled in front of him (or behind just missing his rear bumper)?
If he is established in a lane outside of you, it's up to you to make sure it's safe for you to enter that lane before you do.
Why play dumb ?
Why not do your utmost to avoid any potential conflict you see, rather than thinking you are teaching someone a lesson (that they won't get anyway) ?
Are you saying he was behind you on the slip road, got onto the live carriageway before you & you pulled in front of him (or behind just missing his rear bumper)?
If he is established in a lane outside of you, it's up to you to make sure it's safe for you to enter that lane before you do.
Why play dumb ?
Why not do your utmost to avoid any potential conflict you see, rather than thinking you are teaching someone a lesson (that they won't get anyway) ?
I saw the guy follow me down the slip road quite close to my rear, as I watched what was happening in front I noticed him slide from left to right to, yes like you said join the dual carraigeway before me.
I was moving from the slip road to lane one at a normal pace but he filled the space by accelerating into it, If he had been on the DC before the junction I should have given way to him but if he jumps on before me then attempts to block my attempt to join who is in the wrong?.
If I'm in the wrong whilst joining would I be in the wrong whilst leaving (if he shot up the inside).
I wasn't trying to teach him a lesson it's just that he looked at me as thought I should be there, what did he expect me to do.
I was moving from the slip road to lane one at a normal pace but he filled the space by accelerating into it, If he had been on the DC before the junction I should have given way to him but if he jumps on before me then attempts to block my attempt to join who is in the wrong?.
If I'm in the wrong whilst joining would I be in the wrong whilst leaving (if he shot up the inside).
I wasn't trying to teach him a lesson it's just that he looked at me as thought I should be there, what did he expect me to do.
Edited by Yung Man on Tuesday 2nd October 19:32
Yung Man said:
I saw the guy follow me down the slip road quite close to my rear, as I watched what was happening in front I noticed him slide from left to right to, yes like you said join the dual carraigeway before me.
I was moving from the slip road to lane one at a normal pace but he filled the space by accelerating into it, If he had been on the DC before the junction I should have given way to him but if he jumps on before me then attempts to block my attempt to join who is in the wrong?.
If I'm in the wrong whilst joining would I be in the wrong whilst leaving (if he shot up the inside).
I wasn't trying to teach him a lesson it's just that he looked at me as thought I should be there, what did he expect me to do.
If he is established, then you have to make sure it's safe before you join.I was moving from the slip road to lane one at a normal pace but he filled the space by accelerating into it, If he had been on the DC before the junction I should have given way to him but if he jumps on before me then attempts to block my attempt to join who is in the wrong?.
If I'm in the wrong whilst joining would I be in the wrong whilst leaving (if he shot up the inside).
I wasn't trying to teach him a lesson it's just that he looked at me as thought I should be there, what did he expect me to do.
On the exit if he is on the slip he is off the live carriageway, you still have to make sure it's safe before you go off. Be in position in good time, don't leave room for someone to get into the slip down your nearside.
Yes the bloke sounds like a tw@t. I see what you're getting at. It looked like you may end up in front of the w
r by driving in a sensible fashion so he sped up to be along side to 'teach you a lesson'. When it backfired on him then it was your fault as you should have done an emergancy stop so the prick could slide in front or something else that only he in his small mind was privy too......
Have I got it right ?
r by driving in a sensible fashion so he sped up to be along side to 'teach you a lesson'. When it backfired on him then it was your fault as you should have done an emergancy stop so the prick could slide in front or something else that only he in his small mind was privy too......Have I got it right ?
Edited by nick heppinstall on Tuesday 2nd October 19:42
Yung Man said:
I saw the guy follow me down the slip road quite close to my rear, as I watched what was happening in front I noticed him slide from left to right to, yes like you said join the dual carraigeway before me.
I was moving from the slip road to lane one at a normal pace but he filled the space by accelerating into it, If he had been on the DC before the junction I should have given way to him but if he jumps on before me then attempts to block my attempt to join who is in the wrong?.
If I'm in the wrong whilst joining would I be in the wrong whilst leaving (if he shot up the inside).
I wasn't trying to teach him a lesson it's just that he looked at me as thought I should be there, what did he expect me to do.
You must give way to traffic already on the d/c, although he sound like a t**t, if he got onto it before you, you must give way.I was moving from the slip road to lane one at a normal pace but he filled the space by accelerating into it, If he had been on the DC before the junction I should have given way to him but if he jumps on before me then attempts to block my attempt to join who is in the wrong?.
If I'm in the wrong whilst joining would I be in the wrong whilst leaving (if he shot up the inside).
I wasn't trying to teach him a lesson it's just that he looked at me as thought I should be there, what did he expect me to do.
Edited by Yung Man on Tuesday 2nd October 19:32
His behaviour is wrong, but, legally you still have to give way.
Hope that this helps,
Martin
nick heppinstall said:
Yes the bloke sounds like a tw@t. I see what you're getting at. It looked like you may end up in front of the wr by driving in a sensible fashion so he sped up to be along side to 'teach you a lesson'. When it backfired on him then it was your fault as you should have done an emergancy stop so the prick could slide in front or something else that only he in his small mind was privy too......
Have I got it right ?
He was on the motorway & the OP wanted to join. If push comes to shove it's the OPs responsibility to give way to traffic already on the motorway. r by driving in a sensible fashion so he sped up to be along side to 'teach you a lesson'. When it backfired on him then it was your fault as you should have done an emergancy stop so the prick could slide in front or something else that only he in his small mind was privy too......Have I got it right ?
Edited by nick heppinstall on Tuesday 2nd October 19:42
Don't get yourself in this type of situation.
vonhosen said:
nick heppinstall said:
Yes the bloke sounds like a tw@t. I see what you're getting at. It looked like you may end up in front of the wr by driving in a sensible fashion so he sped up to be along side to 'teach you a lesson'. When it backfired on him then it was your fault as you should have done an emergancy stop so the prick could slide in front or something else that only he in his small mind was privy too......
Have I got it right ?
He was on the motorway & the OP wanted to join. If push comes to shove it's the OPs responsibility to give way to traffic already on the motorway. r by driving in a sensible fashion so he sped up to be along side to 'teach you a lesson'. When it backfired on him then it was your fault as you should have done an emergancy stop so the prick could slide in front or something else that only he in his small mind was privy too......Have I got it right ?
Edited by nick heppinstall on Tuesday 2nd October 19:42
Don't get yourself in this type of situation.
You indicate you are joining the carriageway nice and early to give plenty of room on the slip. Meanwhile the guy behind has done the same but instead of maintaining his speed, because he's pi$$ed off that he cannot jump into lane 2, he puts his foot doen and comes alongside.
Your options are then brake hard because you are running out of sliproad and filter in behind. If he's left it very late and theirs an obstruction on the hard shoulder you then either hit it or ram the guy who's playing silly buggers.
It's the kind of moronic behaviour that nearly cost myself and the missus our lives when a van full of scum floored it when we were overtaking.
Yung Man said:
nearly removed his rear bumper
IMO anyone deliberately putting themselves in conflict with another car is an idiot, and it seems to me that the other driver did this when they tried to overtake you (or actually overtook you) while you were joining from the slip road. Could you clarify though, did they actually get past you (and nearly lose their rear bumper) or did you still pull out in front of them? GreenV8S said:
Yung Man said:
nearly removed his rear bumper
IMO anyone deliberately putting themselves in conflict with another car is an idiot, and it seems to me that the other driver did this when they tried to overtake you (or actually overtook you) while you were joining from the slip road. Could you clarify though, did they actually get past you (and nearly lose their rear bumper) or did you still pull out in front of them? nick heppinstall said:
vonhosen said:
nick heppinstall said:
Yes the bloke sounds like a tw@t. I see what you're getting at. It looked like you may end up in front of the wr by driving in a sensible fashion so he sped up to be along side to 'teach you a lesson'. When it backfired on him then it was your fault as you should have done an emergancy stop so the prick could slide in front or something else that only he in his small mind was privy too......
Have I got it right ?
He was on the motorway & the OP wanted to join. If push comes to shove it's the OPs responsibility to give way to traffic already on the motorway. r by driving in a sensible fashion so he sped up to be along side to 'teach you a lesson'. When it backfired on him then it was your fault as you should have done an emergancy stop so the prick could slide in front or something else that only he in his small mind was privy too......Have I got it right ?
Edited by nick heppinstall on Tuesday 2nd October 19:42
Don't get yourself in this type of situation.
You indicate you are joining the carriageway nice and early to give plenty of room on the slip. Meanwhile the guy behind has done the same but instead of maintaining his speed, because he's pi$$ed off that he cannot jump into lane 2, he puts his foot doen and comes alongside.
Your options are then brake hard because you are running out of sliproad and filter in behind. If he's left it very late and theirs an obstruction on the hard shoulder you then either hit it or ram the guy who's playing silly buggers.
It's the kind of moronic behaviour that nearly cost myself and the missus our lives when a van full of scum floored it when we were overtaking.
Once he has reached the broken line, he can enter lane 1 if it's safe for him to do so. He doesn't have to go to the end of the slip, or wait for you to enter first if you are in front of him on the slip. Now while he isn't putting himself in a particularly good place from a defensive driving point of view or arguably a considerate one either, as far as legal obligations go, it's the OP who has to give way to traffic already established in lane 1.
The OP doesn't have to go 3/4 of the way down the slip road either, if it's safe to enter earlier.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 2nd October 21:00
GreenV8S said:
Yung Man said:
nearly removed his rear bumper
IMO anyone deliberately putting themselves in conflict with another car is an idiot, and it seems to me that the other driver did this when they tried to overtake you (or actually overtook you) while you were joining from the slip road. Could you clarify though, did they actually get past you (and nearly lose their rear bumper) or did you still pull out in front of them? While I'd agree with VH that its bad luck on the OP's behalf if the guy behind got off the slip road and into lane 1 first - that assumes they both waited for the broken lines.
I've seen folk more than once (usually at the same one or two junctions) where impatient aholes go blasting past you on the chevrons and then you're forced to brake hard because of their reckless-ness.
I've seen folk more than once (usually at the same one or two junctions) where impatient a
holes go blasting past you on the chevrons and then you're forced to brake hard because of their reckless-ness.vonhosen said:
As frankly is anyone who knows they are there, but decides to cut it fine to teach them a lesson. It usually takes two idiots for conflict, if just one is on the ball & does the right thing it can generally be avoided. It may mean you losing the ideal position you wanted temporarily or even allowing someone precedence when you were totally within your rights not to, but hey that's not the most important thing unless your in to willy waving big style.
Well, yes. In that situation "body language" plays a big part IMO. The options to stay out of trouble are to cooperate to help them complete their manoeuvre quickly, or choose a course and speed to discourage it (bluff and fold). My first inclination would be to get myself into lane 1 good and early at the first signs of trouble from behind, because it's the safest way for us both to join in order, and also to be honest because I think that loutish behaviour like that should be discouraged not encouraged.GreenV8S said:
Yung Man said:
nearly removed his rear bumper
Could you clarify though, did they actually get past you (and nearly lose their rear bumper) or did you still pull out in front of them? If I had removed his rear bumper it would have been his left rear with my right front.
When you leave the motorway you are normally in lane one going past the 300, 200, 100 marker boards then you join the slip road immediately but when you, or should I say "I" join the motorway I usually move from the slip road to lane 0ne about halfway along the slip road so I suppose I am leaving myself open to this sort of tactic, the only trouble is you can bet that if I had moved from the slip road into lane one at the first opportunity the guy in the BMW would simply have passed me on my inside and still got on the A11 before me.
He was basically trying to hurry me along and if I had played his game I would have been too close to the guy in front of me and the road was far too busy for that.
The best place for someone who you consider to be a dangerous driver, is in front of you, not behind you trying to pass.
Your indicator infers no priority it's a signal of your wish/intent. It doesn't mean you can do it, simply because you've shown others it.
Your indicator infers no priority it's a signal of your wish/intent. It doesn't mean you can do it, simply because you've shown others it.
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 3rd October 07:08
Yung Man said:
I usually move from the slip road to lane 0ne about halfway along the slip road so I suppose I am leaving myself open to this sort of tactic, the only trouble is you can bet that if I had moved from the slip road into lane one at the first opportunity the guy in the BMW would simply have passed me on my inside and still got on the A11 before me.
It does seem that you are leaving the door open to this sort of thing, which doesn't seem a smart move.If the guy does undertake you via the slip road, that seems to me pretty stupid of him but far less harmful from your point of view. If anything goes wrong the most likely outcome is that he ends up boxed into the slip road, which is a nasty situation to be in. I suspect he would then simply force his way out, which could still be dangerous for both of you, but at least it's him with the problem and him on the wrong side of the law.
The final part of your comment suggests you think it is important who ends up in front, which is a bit disconcerting. I hope that isn't the case.
In my experience, truck drivers will generally use all of the available slip road before joining the main carriageway. This exposes them to the risk of a vehicle behind joining L1 of the maain c/way behind them then drawing alongside or close behind so preventing the truck from joining before the slip road 'runs out'. This is obviously very inconsiderate driving on the part of the vehicle behind, but I suspect it happens quite often.
If I am on L2 of a slip with a slower moving truck ahead and in L1, then, if I cannot move swiftly to L2 of the main c/way (so allowing the truck to join in L1) I will hold back, remaining easily visible in the truck's mirrors, then join L1 and wait until truck is established in L1 of the main c/way before looking to move into L2 to overtake. So I am 'defending' the space ahead of me in L1 (allowing the truck to join without fuss) and preventing a less considerate driver behind me from placing the truck in a difficult position. I see this as a courtesy to a fellow road user, which is often acknowledged by a flash of the indicators. Co-operation is so much safer and, imo, a vital element of advanced driving.
If I am on L2 of a slip with a slower moving truck ahead and in L1, then, if I cannot move swiftly to L2 of the main c/way (so allowing the truck to join in L1) I will hold back, remaining easily visible in the truck's mirrors, then join L1 and wait until truck is established in L1 of the main c/way before looking to move into L2 to overtake. So I am 'defending' the space ahead of me in L1 (allowing the truck to join without fuss) and preventing a less considerate driver behind me from placing the truck in a difficult position. I see this as a courtesy to a fellow road user, which is often acknowledged by a flash of the indicators. Co-operation is so much safer and, imo, a vital element of advanced driving.
Observer2 said:
If I am on L2 of a slip with a slower moving truck ahead and in L1, then, if I cannot move swiftly to L2 of the main c/way (so allowing the truck to join in L1) I will hold back, remaining easily visible in the truck's mirrors, then join L1 and wait until truck is established in L1 of the main c/way before looking to move into L2 to overtake. So I am 'defending' the space ahead of me in L1 (allowing the truck to join without fuss) and preventing a less considerate driver behind me from placing the truck in a difficult position. I see this as a courtesy to a fellow road user, which is often acknowledged by a flash of the indicators. Co-operation is so much safer and, imo, a vital element of advanced driving.
I am not an advanced driver but to me this comes under "driver etiquette", If an unmarked plod had been 3 cars back in lane 2 he would have had a good view of what we where both doing, the BMW accelerating then braking with the intention of claiming the space that morally if not legally was mine.This type of driving is typical of early morning rush hour driving and IMO falls into the catagory of a good driver driving badly as apposed to the usual bad driver driving badly (if that makes sense).
Yung Man said:
Observer2 said:
If I am on L2 of a slip with a slower moving truck ahead and in L1, then, if I cannot move swiftly to L2 of the main c/way (so allowing the truck to join in L1) I will hold back, remaining easily visible in the truck's mirrors, then join L1 and wait until truck is established in L1 of the main c/way before looking to move into L2 to overtake. So I am 'defending' the space ahead of me in L1 (allowing the truck to join without fuss) and preventing a less considerate driver behind me from placing the truck in a difficult position. I see this as a courtesy to a fellow road user, which is often acknowledged by a flash of the indicators. Co-operation is so much safer and, imo, a vital element of advanced driving.
I am not an advanced driver but to me this comes under "driver etiquette", If an unmarked plod had been 3 cars back in lane 2 he would have had a good view of what we where both doing, the BMW accelerating then braking with the intention of claiming the space that morally if not legally was mine.This type of driving is typical of early morning rush hour driving and IMO falls into the catagory of a good driver driving badly as apposed to the usual bad driver driving badly (if that makes sense).
Another trick is to hold back a bit on the slip road (if something ahead) to get a bit of space, which can then be used to accelerate into, of course this only works if you can match a gap on the main carriage way, but usually has the advantage of pulling away from anyone behind so that they aren't near you to cause you a problem.
Martin
Martin
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff