How to block the motorway without really trying
Discussion
I was driving north on the M1 between J19 and J24 on sunday night, everything began to slow down because there was a HA 4x4 doing about 60mph in lane 1, even if it had been a police car I would have passed it at 70-75mph but I was stuck and had to wait my turn, as I got along side the HA vehicle (me in lane 3) he peeled off down a slip road, the six or eight cars in front did'nt see this so they carried on playing safe.
Eventually we had Fiat Panda in lane 2 doing 65mph and a Kia Sorrento in lane 3 doing spot on 70mph with a Clio behind him then me, there was nothing in lane 1.
After 2 miles or so I'd had enough and went lane 2, lane 1, and undertook all three, I watched in my mirror for the next few minutes to see the Kia pass the Panda then move to lane 1 and the clio pass both of them and then sit in lane three for the next 5-10 minutes until I couldn't see him anymore.
I don't know who is worse me or them
What can you do when a driver decides he can't be bothered using his mirrors and the only option (IMO) is to break the law and do a undertake?.
Eventually we had Fiat Panda in lane 2 doing 65mph and a Kia Sorrento in lane 3 doing spot on 70mph with a Clio behind him then me, there was nothing in lane 1.
After 2 miles or so I'd had enough and went lane 2, lane 1, and undertook all three, I watched in my mirror for the next few minutes to see the Kia pass the Panda then move to lane 1 and the clio pass both of them and then sit in lane three for the next 5-10 minutes until I couldn't see him anymore.
I don't know who is worse me or them
What can you do when a driver decides he can't be bothered using his mirrors and the only option (IMO) is to break the law and do a undertake?.
Edited by Yung Man on Wednesday 3rd October 16:12
Sit back and chill.
The problem with undertaking is that if they're dozy enough to sit blocking a lane, they'll crtainly be dozy enough to move across if you undertake them.
So don't take that risk, sit in a safe following position and wait for them to move. If they don't, then they don't.
The problem with undertaking is that if they're dozy enough to sit blocking a lane, they'll crtainly be dozy enough to move across if you undertake them.
So don't take that risk, sit in a safe following position and wait for them to move. If they don't, then they don't.
R_U_LOCAL said:
Sit back and chill.
The problem with undertaking is that if they're dozy enough to sit blocking a lane, they'll crtainly be dozy enough to move across if you undertake them.
So don't take that risk, sit in a safe following position and wait for them to move. If they don't, then they don't.
If they are that dozy though I'd much prefer to have the hard shoulder to move into rather than the central reservation!The problem with undertaking is that if they're dozy enough to sit blocking a lane, they'll crtainly be dozy enough to move across if you undertake them.
So don't take that risk, sit in a safe following position and wait for them to move. If they don't, then they don't.
What is the official police view on undertaking? So long as the relative speed isn't rediculous and you don't cut people up?
Why isn't "left lane unless overtaking" put on the motorway information boards, when there's nothing else to report?
Just "You are in the wrong lane!" would do for most of the population!
There are a couple of techniques which I would try before undertaking, both to be used with caution. One is to close up rapidly from well back until you have a dominant position in the mirror which the driver in front may or may not notice. Be sure you have somewhere to go if he brake tests you. The other is to apply main beam - I would do this from well back, for three or four seconds, and then possibly follow by the closing up technique. Again, be ready for erratic behaviour by the driver in front.
I don't think it is illegal to pass on the left, and I don't quite go along with Reg. I would certainly consider passing on the left, but making sure that I maximise seperation from the vehicle I will be passing to give time to react if he changes lanes without warning, and being ready to give a horn warning. I would also consider my escape route (perhaps the hard shoulder). Much of this applies to a normal overtake on the right. You should also identify when you have passed the point of no return for braking behind the overtaken vehicle so that the only way out is acceleration forwards.
I don't think it is illegal to pass on the left, and I don't quite go along with Reg. I would certainly consider passing on the left, but making sure that I maximise seperation from the vehicle I will be passing to give time to react if he changes lanes without warning, and being ready to give a horn warning. I would also consider my escape route (perhaps the hard shoulder). Much of this applies to a normal overtake on the right. You should also identify when you have passed the point of no return for braking behind the overtaken vehicle so that the only way out is acceleration forwards.
R_U_LOCAL said:
The problem with undertaking is that if they're dozy enough to sit blocking a lane, they'll crtainly be dozy enough to move across if you undertake them.
If they're dozy enough to do that then they are dozy enough to side-swipe you if you overtake "correctly". I'd rather be as far away from them as possible and if that means overtaking on the "wrong" side to do so, then so be it.waremark said:
There are a couple of techniques which I would try before undertaking, both to be used with caution. One is to close up rapidly from well back until you have a dominant position in the mirror which the driver in front may or may not notice. Be sure you have somewhere to go if he brake tests you. The other is to apply main beam - I would do this from well back, for three or four seconds, and then possibly follow by the closing up technique. Again, be ready for erratic behaviour by the driver in front.
I don't think it is illegal to pass on the left, and I don't quite go along with Reg. I would certainly consider passing on the left, but making sure that I maximise seperation from the vehicle I will be passing to give time to react if he changes lanes without warning, and being ready to give a horn warning. I would also consider my escape route (perhaps the hard shoulder). Much of this applies to a normal overtake on the right. You should also identify when you have passed the point of no return for braking behind the overtaken vehicle so that the only way out is acceleration forwards.
I don't think it is illegal to pass on the left, and I don't quite go along with Reg. I would certainly consider passing on the left, but making sure that I maximise seperation from the vehicle I will be passing to give time to react if he changes lanes without warning, and being ready to give a horn warning. I would also consider my escape route (perhaps the hard shoulder). Much of this applies to a normal overtake on the right. You should also identify when you have passed the point of no return for braking behind the overtaken vehicle so that the only way out is acceleration forwards.
waremark said:
Did I actually say that out loud?.
Highways Agency should be banned from travelling on any road at less than 70mph as they are a bloody danger to all other road users and work in conflict to the smooth flow of motorway traffic. At least a hundred COBA disbenifit points!
And middle laning should receive a minimum 3 points for driving without due care or potentially reckless in certain circumstances. If you are able to undertake a vehicle in any circumstances except for slow moving traffic, it's the vehicle that's being undertaken's fault for allowing themselves to be in that situation so why should the poor innocent undertaker be penalised.
Get the lethal idiots off the road!
And middle laning should receive a minimum 3 points for driving without due care or potentially reckless in certain circumstances. If you are able to undertake a vehicle in any circumstances except for slow moving traffic, it's the vehicle that's being undertaken's fault for allowing themselves to be in that situation so why should the poor innocent undertaker be penalised.
Get the lethal idiots off the road!
Greensleeves said:
Highways Agency should be banned from travelling on any road at less than 70mph as they are a bloody danger to all other road users and work in conflict to the smooth flow of motorway traffic.
I assume you'll be campaigning for the removal of all vehicles which cannot attain 70MPH, then?Quite frankly, I think that if a driver can't tell the difference between an HA vehicle, a VOSA vehicle, a paramedic and the Police, then they should probably reduce their speed to well below the NSL because their observation is inadequate. I saw people yesterday on the M1 slowing for a RAF Mountain Rescue vehicle...
While it's illegal to undertake, my understanding is that it's the move to the left that's illegal, not simply travelling with the flow of traffic in lane 1, which may just happen to be faster than lane 2.
Given that there is a hard shoulder on the motorway, I would guess (although I wouldn't know), that undertaking in the nearside lane is safer than undertaking in the middle lane(s). What I can say is that I have seen more of the latter than the former.
It's great isn't it, the safety campaigners are making London motorways more like those of Moscow. (No matter what it looks like, there's always a way through)
It's great isn't it, the safety campaigners are making London motorways more like those of Moscow. (No matter what it looks like, there's always a way through)
Edited by dilbert on Thursday 4th October 07:00
parapaul said:
Greensleeves said:
And middle laning should receive a minimum 3 points for driving without due care or potentially reckless in certain circumstances.
I'm with you on that one. Now the Autobahn, is a completely different story...
It's not going to be a popular one, but the road safety myth isn't so green either.
The thing is that if you put a flat barrier on the speed that people can travel, there will always be more fluctuation in the speed that people travel.
Enevitably there are people who want to travel slower than the flat barrier, and as a consequence you are always faced with the situation where people need to get around one another.
Once you have that situation, then people will be slowing down and speeding up to negotiate the hazards. Whilst no speed limit at all will have the same effect as a flat barrier, there is more scope for people to carry their speed, and in some cases increase their speed such that a percieved hazard in front is put behind.
The thing about the draconian limits is that where people choose this approach to hazard avoidance (and I think in a motorway environment that is just as valid as slowing down) is that people will be less willing to carry this additional speed until it naturally drains away. I'd say that on average half of the motoring energy that goes into hazard avoidance is wasted in subsequent braking activity.
Overall, from a green perspective, the best solution is to have a fixed window of speeds within which you must travel, but that may not be practical. What's really needed from a green perspective, is a less draconian view of the connection between speed and danger.
The thing is that if you put a flat barrier on the speed that people can travel, there will always be more fluctuation in the speed that people travel.
Enevitably there are people who want to travel slower than the flat barrier, and as a consequence you are always faced with the situation where people need to get around one another.
Once you have that situation, then people will be slowing down and speeding up to negotiate the hazards. Whilst no speed limit at all will have the same effect as a flat barrier, there is more scope for people to carry their speed, and in some cases increase their speed such that a percieved hazard in front is put behind.
The thing about the draconian limits is that where people choose this approach to hazard avoidance (and I think in a motorway environment that is just as valid as slowing down) is that people will be less willing to carry this additional speed until it naturally drains away. I'd say that on average half of the motoring energy that goes into hazard avoidance is wasted in subsequent braking activity.
Overall, from a green perspective, the best solution is to have a fixed window of speeds within which you must travel, but that may not be practical. What's really needed from a green perspective, is a less draconian view of the connection between speed and danger.
waremark said:
There are a couple of techniques which I would try before undertaking, both to be used with caution. One is to close up rapidly from well back until you have a dominant position in the mirror which the driver in front may or may not notice. Be sure you have somewhere to go if he brake tests you. The other is to apply main beam - I would do this from well back, for three or four seconds, and then possibly follow by the closing up technique. Again, be ready for erratic behaviour by the driver in front.
The problem with this technique is the Clio was behind the Sorrento and he(the Sorrento) was the one I wanted to speed up and move over, at the time the Sorrento seemed quite happy cruising along side the Panda, If I had flashed at the Clio it might have just made him angry, plus me speeding up behind them flashing my main beam makes me appear impatient.waremark said:
I don't think it is illegal to pass on the left,
Thats not the way I see it.waremark said:
if he changes lanes without warning, and being ready to give a horn warning. I would also consider my escape route (perhaps the hard shoulder).
How would this type of driving look to an unmarked plod?, not good I would suspect. (I say "unmarked" because I don't think you would do that if a marked plod was close by)In this situation [a very common place one now owing to 'over-enthusiastic speed enforcement] I hold back in lane 3, put on my indicator as if turning right and wait 5 secs or so, then a little flash, which usually does the trick.
I think sitting on the tail like a gormless nerk is not really the way to go... chilled or not, by sitting there you are doing nothing to improve road awareness in others.
I think sitting on the tail like a gormless nerk is not really the way to go... chilled or not, by sitting there you are doing nothing to improve road awareness in others.
Truth is, who really knows what to do?
That is the result of successive Governments who have not got to grips with driver education.
Tell me, in which other sphere of competence does one pass a test and then not have to be assessed evermore?
A total nonsense.
Or, perhaps it suits Government?
Oh yes, I want my Civil Airline Pilot to get certification and then never to be checked again.
My Ferry Captain.
The BiB Advanced.
No Peer revue for those in Education or Medicine, etc.
That is the result of successive Governments who have not got to grips with driver education.
Tell me, in which other sphere of competence does one pass a test and then not have to be assessed evermore?
A total nonsense.
Or, perhaps it suits Government?
Oh yes, I want my Civil Airline Pilot to get certification and then never to be checked again.
My Ferry Captain.
The BiB Advanced.
No Peer revue for those in Education or Medicine, etc.
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