Discussion
Hi,
ive just past my test, im 18, im thinking about taking the pass plus course but people tell me that it makes no difference on your insurance quote, although it is handy because of the motorway experience. Also the IAM test keeps popping up in conversations - not sure what to do and im not sure what the IAM test covers!!
I'll be happy to listen to any suggestions and tips!!!
ive just past my test, im 18, im thinking about taking the pass plus course but people tell me that it makes no difference on your insurance quote, although it is handy because of the motorway experience. Also the IAM test keeps popping up in conversations - not sure what to do and im not sure what the IAM test covers!!
I'll be happy to listen to any suggestions and tips!!!
Do it, do it, do it 
However, if you don't feel that confident then Pass Plus might be a good intermediate step.
I did it at your age and although the insurance element wasn't a driver for me and it might not get you any great benefit (it was tied to one insurer/broker - not sure ATM), the real benefit will come in terms of much improved driving skill, safety and later on, fun. You might not notice/reap all of the benefits straight away but you will definitely get some benefit straight away and more later on when you get the experience to add to it.
I'm sure others will be able to give you a more in-depth or better description but in essence it's about doing broadly the same things better, plus other elements. For me the greatest benefit was much improved observation of what is happening around & about, plus it helps you think more about the internal & external environment when you are at the wheel (a couple of simple little examples might be understanding what 'average' drivers are going to do in a situation before they actually do it, or knowing exactly the pace of your car and knowing speeds, so acceleration in each gear so you know exactly which one will give you the most benefit in a certain situation). Over time this will become more or less instinct.
Some elements might seem a bit staid & 'old bloke', as will some of the people who are involved with the IAM (it does attract a certain type) but there is no compulsion to adhere absolutely to everything afterwards. For example, I don't agree with silly things like feeding the wheel at all times, nor absolute adherence to every single posted speed limit at ALL times (I think I know enough by now to be sensible about where it's right to be on or below the limit and where a bit more is perfectly safe, even if not legal). There may still be little anachronisms like making sure everyone is correctly in the car, knows how to get out and where the belts are, plus [MAYBE] the moving brake test
Of course, an alternative is RoSPA but I have t confess I don't know much about that personally.
However, if you don't feel that confident then Pass Plus might be a good intermediate step.
I did it at your age and although the insurance element wasn't a driver for me and it might not get you any great benefit (it was tied to one insurer/broker - not sure ATM), the real benefit will come in terms of much improved driving skill, safety and later on, fun. You might not notice/reap all of the benefits straight away but you will definitely get some benefit straight away and more later on when you get the experience to add to it.
I'm sure others will be able to give you a more in-depth or better description but in essence it's about doing broadly the same things better, plus other elements. For me the greatest benefit was much improved observation of what is happening around & about, plus it helps you think more about the internal & external environment when you are at the wheel (a couple of simple little examples might be understanding what 'average' drivers are going to do in a situation before they actually do it, or knowing exactly the pace of your car and knowing speeds, so acceleration in each gear so you know exactly which one will give you the most benefit in a certain situation). Over time this will become more or less instinct.
Some elements might seem a bit staid & 'old bloke', as will some of the people who are involved with the IAM (it does attract a certain type) but there is no compulsion to adhere absolutely to everything afterwards. For example, I don't agree with silly things like feeding the wheel at all times, nor absolute adherence to every single posted speed limit at ALL times (I think I know enough by now to be sensible about where it's right to be on or below the limit and where a bit more is perfectly safe, even if not legal). There may still be little anachronisms like making sure everyone is correctly in the car, knows how to get out and where the belts are, plus [MAYBE] the moving brake test
Of course, an alternative is RoSPA but I have t confess I don't know much about that personally.
It's great that you correctly realise that you have got a lot more to learn about driving. I suggest that you do Pass Plus now and consider IAM in a few months.
First read the current Pass Plus thread. Pass Plus is aimed directly at people at your level, and includes six modules over a minimum of six hours. You cannot fail to get an advantage from another six hours of structured training, which can concentrate entirely on becoming a better driver now you no longer have to learn how to pass your driving test!
I don't know whether you are going to get your own insurance. For my son, his first year's insurance was with Churchill at about £1,550 (the cheapest quote he could get). When he did Pass Plus, he got an insurance refund of £150, which was more than the cost of Pass Plus. You only get the discount for your first year. Many companies give this discount; you can only find out by asking each company.
The Institute of Advanced Motorists is aimed at a higher level. The idea is to improve your road driving to a high standard and prove that you have reached it by taking and passing the Advanced Driving Test.
Advanced driving is defined like this:
“Advanced driving is the ability to control the position and speed of the vehicle safely, systematically and smoothly, using road and traffic conditions to make reasonable progress unobtrusively, with skill and responsibility. The skill requires a positive but courteous attitude and a high standard of driving competence based on concentration, effective all round observation, anticipation and planning. This must be co-ordinated with good handling skills. The vehicle should always be at the right place on the road at the right time, travelling at the right speed with the correct gear engaged and can always be stopped safely in the distance that can be seen to be clear.”
By comparison with what you have learned so far, there will be more focus on such aspects as excellent observation and anticipation, smoothness, and road positioning. Local groups of the IAM help you prepare for the Advanced Driving Test generally over a period of a few weeks or months.
See:
http://www.iam.org.uk/
http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/faq/
First read the current Pass Plus thread. Pass Plus is aimed directly at people at your level, and includes six modules over a minimum of six hours. You cannot fail to get an advantage from another six hours of structured training, which can concentrate entirely on becoming a better driver now you no longer have to learn how to pass your driving test!
I don't know whether you are going to get your own insurance. For my son, his first year's insurance was with Churchill at about £1,550 (the cheapest quote he could get). When he did Pass Plus, he got an insurance refund of £150, which was more than the cost of Pass Plus. You only get the discount for your first year. Many companies give this discount; you can only find out by asking each company.
The Institute of Advanced Motorists is aimed at a higher level. The idea is to improve your road driving to a high standard and prove that you have reached it by taking and passing the Advanced Driving Test.
Advanced driving is defined like this:
“Advanced driving is the ability to control the position and speed of the vehicle safely, systematically and smoothly, using road and traffic conditions to make reasonable progress unobtrusively, with skill and responsibility. The skill requires a positive but courteous attitude and a high standard of driving competence based on concentration, effective all round observation, anticipation and planning. This must be co-ordinated with good handling skills. The vehicle should always be at the right place on the road at the right time, travelling at the right speed with the correct gear engaged and can always be stopped safely in the distance that can be seen to be clear.”
By comparison with what you have learned so far, there will be more focus on such aspects as excellent observation and anticipation, smoothness, and road positioning. Local groups of the IAM help you prepare for the Advanced Driving Test generally over a period of a few weeks or months.
See:
http://www.iam.org.uk/
http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/faq/
D1MAC said:
Of course, an alternative is RoSPA but I have t confess I don't know much about that personally.
Rospa Advanced Drivers and RidersA much smaller organisation than IAM, but operates very similarly. A local group will help you to prepare for an Advanced Driving Test. The method of driving and the whole approach is just the same - there are more differences between individual groups within each of IAM and Rospa than there are between the two organisations, with two exceptions. The two exceptions are that Rospa grades test passes as bronze, silver or gold, whereas with IAM the best you can do is to pass, and that Rospa requires you to be retested every three years (the cost of this is included in the £20 annual membership fee). I like the grading element and the 3 yearly retest, in that it encourages people to realise that even when they have passed an advanced driving test they need to keep their standard up or improve on it.
Find out about each organisations local groups, and choose the one which seems more convenient or more efficient.
waremark said:
It's great that you correctly realise that you have got a lot more to learn about driving. I suggest that you do Pass Plus now and consider IAM in a few months.
Although I suggested the same, only thing I would point out differently is that if you really feel sufficiently confident (without being full of it) then Pass Plus might not offer anything additional - without knowing your circumstances it's hard to say. Pass Plus didn't exist in my time (ooh when I were a lad 
) but I still managed to pass the IAM test without drama and quicker than the norm (luck, maybe, but no Billy Big Spuds mode, honestly). I didn't pass the DSA test first time either 
It all depends on your assessment of where you think you are - and without prejudice/bravado!!! Plus, of course, any natural talent.
Other than that, nice to be reinforced
Edited by D1MAC on Saturday 13th October 01:40
waremark said:
It's great that you correctly realise that you have got a lot more to learn about driving. I suggest that you do Pass Plus now and consider IAM in a few months.
ok it's saturday evening, so don't take this too seriously, nor a slur on the poster, but...this is just the positioning that the "superior" person takes that really gets my goat.
That is such a condescending tone that is endemic in the IAM organisation that puts off teenagers and old gits (me) alike.
How's about. "come out with us and have a great time. You won't believe how much fun there is to have learning better driving skills."
Versus, "come out me with me and one day you'll be as good as us".
Sorry.
Bert
BertBert said:
waremark said:
It's great that you correctly realise that you have got a lot more to learn about driving. I suggest that you do Pass Plus now and consider IAM in a few months.
ok it's saturday evening, so don't take this too seriously, nor a slur on the poster, but...this is just the positioning that the "superior" person takes that really gets my goat.
That is such a condescending tone that is endemic in the IAM organisation that puts off teenagers and old gits (me) alike.
How's about. "come out with us and have a great time. You won't believe how much fun there is to have learning better driving skills."
Versus, "come out me with me and one day you'll be as good as us".
Sorry.
Bert
I appreciate that the OP is a new driver, not far past the basic test stage, but it seems to me that all non-IAM members get this treatment before anybody knows anything about them, and it can put people off.
Until a driver has been assessed, how does anybody know how proficient he's going to be at the numerous elements of the overall driving task? It is highly probable that he will have a lot to learn, and much experience yet to be acquired, but let's not talk down to him. Perhaps a bit of encouragement and recognition of what he can already do, eh?
Sorry, Mark, but I hope you'll accept this as a constructive suggestion for a minor amendment to the approach.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
BertBert said:
waremark said:
It's great that you correctly realise that you have got a lot more to learn about driving. I suggest that you do Pass Plus now and consider IAM in a few months.
ok it's saturday evening, so don't take this too seriously, nor a slur on the poster, but...this is just the positioning that the "superior" person takes that really gets my goat.
That is such a condescending tone that is endemic in the IAM organisation that puts off teenagers and old gits (me) alike.
How's about. "come out with us and have a great time. You won't believe how much fun there is to have learning better driving skills."
Versus, "come out me with me and one day you'll be as good as us".
Sorry.
Bert
I appreciate that the OP is a new driver, not far past the basic test stage, but it seems to me that all non-IAM members get this treatment before anybody knows anything about them, and it can put people off.
Until a driver has been assessed, how does anybody know how proficient he's going to be at the numerous elements of the overall driving task? It is highly probable that he will have a lot to learn, and much experience yet to be acquired, but let's not talk down to him. Perhaps a bit of encouragement and recognition of what he can already do, eh?
Sorry, Mark, but I hope you'll accept this as a constructive suggestion for a minor amendment to the approach.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Bert
Hi Bert and Dave. Sorry you folks don't like my tone but I meant very much what I said here. I fundamentally disagree with new drivers being allowed to think that passing the DSA driving test is the end of learning to drive. It isn't - it's merely a stage, after which you can go out and practise on your own. The process of becoming a decent driver can be improved and speeded up after the test by taking more training.
Yes, most people who take further training enjoy the process and end up enjoying their driving more as well as being better drivers. I certainly don't assume that new IAM associates will be poor drivers - on the contrary. But I have no reservations in telling people that however good they are now they are likely to make further progress through an advanced driving course. And I cannot remember an IAM Associate who did not sound sincere in appreciating what they had learned.
But do allow me to congratulate this poster on realising that he does have more to learn.
Yes, most people who take further training enjoy the process and end up enjoying their driving more as well as being better drivers. I certainly don't assume that new IAM associates will be poor drivers - on the contrary. But I have no reservations in telling people that however good they are now they are likely to make further progress through an advanced driving course. And I cannot remember an IAM Associate who did not sound sincere in appreciating what they had learned.
But do allow me to congratulate this poster on realising that he does have more to learn.
Edited by waremark on Sunday 14th October 00:55
BertBert said:
waremark said:
It's great that you correctly realise that you have got a lot more to learn about driving. I suggest that you do Pass Plus now and consider IAM in a few months.
That is such a condescending tone that is endemic in the IAM organisation that puts off teenagers and old gits (me) alike.You can't take the IAM test till 3 months after your DSA test anyway. The OP might as well take PassPlus now and get some instructed help in areas that have not been covered in the DSA test - like motorway driving.
Fine - he might be a naturally good driver already, but there's nothing wrong with getting tuition in different areas.
Go for it - IAM or ROSPA the test format is very similar and both organisations provide a good level of training (in my experience). I did IAM 3 years after my L test but I was still a comparatively novice driver as my circumstances then meant I only did a very low mileage on local roads. Pass Plus didn't exist then - so can't comment on that. I do know that IAM (and later ROSPA) gave me skills, which I won't claim have saved my life but I have certainly avoided at least 1 big accident (HGV running a red light) because of the observtion skills I learned.
BertBert said:
TripleS said:
BertBert said:
waremark said:
It's great that you correctly realise that you have got a lot more to learn about driving. I suggest that you do Pass Plus now and consider IAM in a few months.
ok it's saturday evening, so don't take this too seriously, nor a slur on the poster, but...this is just the positioning that the "superior" person takes that really gets my goat.
That is such a condescending tone that is endemic in the IAM organisation that puts off teenagers and old gits (me) alike.
How's about. "come out with us and have a great time. You won't believe how much fun there is to have learning better driving skills."
Versus, "come out me with me and one day you'll be as good as us".
Sorry.
Bert
I appreciate that the OP is a new driver, not far past the basic test stage, but it seems to me that all non-IAM members get this treatment before anybody knows anything about them, and it can put people off.
Until a driver has been assessed, how does anybody know how proficient he's going to be at the numerous elements of the overall driving task? It is highly probable that he will have a lot to learn, and much experience yet to be acquired, but let's not talk down to him. Perhaps a bit of encouragement and recognition of what he can already do, eh?
Sorry, Mark, but I hope you'll accept this as a constructive suggestion for a minor amendment to the approach.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Bert
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Hi everyone,
To add my two-penneth ...
As in all learning, what matters is getting a good instructor who's right for you.
You get good and bad instructors in all things. I know a great Pass Plus instructor with a wealth of advanced police expertise from decades in Traffic and VIP Escort. His Pass Plus courses are a damn sight better than a typical IAM course. Likewise, there are some amateur but expert IAM and RoADAR tutors who shine above the rest.
All things being equaly, my recommendation would be to invest in doing both, starting with Pass Plus then going straight to IAM or RoADAR. However, if any of the instructors aren't right for you, then change instructor. The important thing is getting a good instructor who works well for your personal learning style. Badges, and the order in which you may choose to do them, are irrelevant compared to continuing to learn.
One of the worst things about advanced driving can be this obsession with certificates, standards, badges and an order of merit. Most people in their right mind never want to take another driving test; standards/tests and fun don't go together, then we wonder why so few people take up advanced driving. (Yet some parts of the advanced community can argue over the difference between RoSPA Silver and IAM standard, as if it's important. Good grief!)
A test pass only tells you how good you were on the day. We should accept that we all have good days and bad days. What counts in the long term should be continual learning, not the standard of badge you've achieved.
To add my two-penneth ...
As in all learning, what matters is getting a good instructor who's right for you.
You get good and bad instructors in all things. I know a great Pass Plus instructor with a wealth of advanced police expertise from decades in Traffic and VIP Escort. His Pass Plus courses are a damn sight better than a typical IAM course. Likewise, there are some amateur but expert IAM and RoADAR tutors who shine above the rest.
All things being equaly, my recommendation would be to invest in doing both, starting with Pass Plus then going straight to IAM or RoADAR. However, if any of the instructors aren't right for you, then change instructor. The important thing is getting a good instructor who works well for your personal learning style. Badges, and the order in which you may choose to do them, are irrelevant compared to continuing to learn.
One of the worst things about advanced driving can be this obsession with certificates, standards, badges and an order of merit. Most people in their right mind never want to take another driving test; standards/tests and fun don't go together, then we wonder why so few people take up advanced driving. (Yet some parts of the advanced community can argue over the difference between RoSPA Silver and IAM standard, as if it's important. Good grief!) A test pass only tells you how good you were on the day. We should accept that we all have good days and bad days. What counts in the long term should be continual learning, not the standard of badge you've achieved.Edited by SVS on Thursday 18th October 17:38
SVS said:
Hi everyone,
To add my two-penneth ...
As in all learning, what matters is getting a good instructor who's right for you.
You get good and bad instructors in all things. I know a great Pass Plus instructor with a wealth of advanced police expertise from decades in Traffic and VIP Escort. His Pass Plus courses are a damn sight better than a typical IAM course. Likewise, there are some amateur but expert IAM and RoADAR tutors who shine above the rest.
All things being equaly, my recommendation would be to invest in doing both, starting with Pass Plus then going straight to IAM or RoADAR. However, if any of the instructors aren't right for you, then change instructor. The important thing is getting a good instructor who works well for your personal learning style. Badges, and the order in which you may choose to do them, are irrelevant compared to continuing to learn.
One of the worst things about advanced driving can be this obsession with certificates, standards, badges and an order of merit. Most people in their right mind never want to take another driving test; standards/tests and fun don't go together, then we wonder why so few people take up advanced driving. (Yet some parts of the advanced community can argue over the difference between RoSPA Silver and IAM standard, as if it's important. Good grief!)
A test pass only tells you how good you were on the day. We should accept that we all have good days and bad days. What counts in the long term should be continual learning, not the standard of badge you've achieved.
You are TripleS and I claim my fiver. To add my two-penneth ...
As in all learning, what matters is getting a good instructor who's right for you.
You get good and bad instructors in all things. I know a great Pass Plus instructor with a wealth of advanced police expertise from decades in Traffic and VIP Escort. His Pass Plus courses are a damn sight better than a typical IAM course. Likewise, there are some amateur but expert IAM and RoADAR tutors who shine above the rest.
All things being equaly, my recommendation would be to invest in doing both, starting with Pass Plus then going straight to IAM or RoADAR. However, if any of the instructors aren't right for you, then change instructor. The important thing is getting a good instructor who works well for your personal learning style. Badges, and the order in which you may choose to do them, are irrelevant compared to continuing to learn.
One of the worst things about advanced driving can be this obsession with certificates, standards, badges and an order of merit. Most people in their right mind never want to take another driving test; standards/tests and fun don't go together, then we wonder why so few people take up advanced driving. (Yet some parts of the advanced community can argue over the difference between RoSPA Silver and IAM standard, as if it's important. Good grief!) A test pass only tells you how good you were on the day. We should accept that we all have good days and bad days. What counts in the long term should be continual learning, not the standard of badge you've achieved.Edited by SVS on Thursday 18th October 17:38
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Ah ha.
I completely understand, as I had a similar experience. (Albeit less acrimonious that Dave's.) I don't think this reflects the IAM; it just reflects the chemistry between Observer and Associate.
I simply asked my IAM Group's associate secretary if I could try a different observer. A new observer was promptly found, who was excellent - a serving Class 1 with a teaching qualification. What more could you want?!
I had imagined that changing observer would be embarassing. However, my concern proved unfounded. It was simple and straightforward, with nothing more said about it.
As in learning anything, you need the right teacher for you and your personal learning style. We're all different.
I completely understand, as I had a similar experience. (Albeit less acrimonious that Dave's.) I don't think this reflects the IAM; it just reflects the chemistry between Observer and Associate.
I simply asked my IAM Group's associate secretary if I could try a different observer. A new observer was promptly found, who was excellent - a serving Class 1 with a teaching qualification. What more could you want?!
I had imagined that changing observer would be embarassing. However, my concern proved unfounded. It was simple and straightforward, with nothing more said about it.
As in learning anything, you need the right teacher for you and your personal learning style. We're all different.
I think it's beholden on our "Advanced Driving" community to do all we can to encourage drivers of all age groups, including the 18-25 year olds, to push their driving knowledge and skills forward and I'm always really pleased to hear of young drivers wanting to improve upon their own driving skills. Whatever your age, go for it and you'll never regret it - whether you go with IAM, ROSPA or via the intermediate Pass Plus route. Once the bug bites I feel sure you'll be hooked. Enjoy and pass the word along - please.
vonhosen said:
SVS said:
Hi TripleS ... Eh? Now I'm confused ... Were you being surreal? 
When Dave tried IAM his observer's methods weren't compatible with his learning style & resulted in a little conflict/ill feeling.Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 20th October 15:49
Best wishes all,
Dave - a bit of a tricky bu99er at times.
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