So you think its ok to undertake?

[Bing o]

BertBert said:

What is the correct lane discipline? There is the inevitable queue in L3; some cars in L1; L2 and L3 are going about the same speed. I am in L2 desiring to move by and there is the big gap in front of me as everyone has moved to L3 in a queue.

Do I join the queue in L3 and exascerbate that problem?
Do I stay in L2 going past cars in L1 buit not closing up the gap in L2 (as that would be underatking)?
Do something else?

Bert

Wait for a gap in L1, drop it a couple of cogs, and do L2 and L3 "train" in one go.

[Yung Man]

Say one thing then do the other.

[ClioKarl]

vonhosen said:

7db said:

If, on a blue light run, on an empty motorway, you came across someone bimbling along at 50 in lane 3. Would you sit behind them until they pulled over?

Quite often do, in the spirit of what you're saying, but I've never actually come across anyone doing 50 in lane 3 with nothing else on the road except us.
If I undertake at speed & they move left, I'll be carrying the can so I prefer not to put myself there.
There is no exemption for me from DD or DWDCA.

Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 7th November 23:21

I'd have to disagree with you there vonhosen. On the whole I've found that a couple of flashes moves most blinkered vision, purple rinsed, 112 year old "drivers", from lane 2 or 3 without having to hassle them. But occasionally there's a muppet who wont take the hint, or is so blissfully unaware that they sit there mile after mile. In these situations I plan my under take, looking to put a lane between myself and hogger if possible.

Why I should sit behind a driver who is not driving (safely) up to the speed limit, in the wrong lane, with no consideration for other drivers?

Karl

[DJ_AS]

ClioKarl said:

Why I should sit behind a driver who is not driving (safely) up to the speed limit, in the wrong lane, with no consideration for other drivers?

Karl

Because by not doing so you may create a dangerous situation. See my original post.

Lane hogging = frustrating
Undertaking = dangerous

[RT106]

DJ_AS said:

Because by not doing so you may create a dangerous situation. See my original post.

A carefully planned and well executed undertake in this situation is just as safe as many carefully planned and well executed overtakes. And it's probably a hell of a lot safer than many poorly planned and poorly executed examples of either.

I freely admit to undertaking, but no more than once or twice a fortnight when the car in front stubbornly refuses to move over. However, I agree that the danger is that the more undertaking there is the more widespread it will become but I'm just not prepared to follow someone who's - in my opinion - driving dangerously whilst watching my day tick by.

[ClioKarl]

DJ_AS, yes many undertakes are dangerous, but as RT106 says, if it's well planned/executed, is it any more dangerous than an over take? Definately not if you have the opportunity to use lane one leaving lane 2 clear.

Obviously, it's not always possible to have the luxury of a clear lane and each situation needs its own assessment. An example of this was on the M5 heading to Cornwall, 3 lane motorway, dry, daytime, reasonably quiet. I was in lane 3 behind a focus travelling at 65mph. There was no one in front, no one in lane 2 and light traffic in lane 1. I sat behind him for about a minute, in which time a couple of cars undertook without hesistation, which could have been potentially dangerous. I'd flashed him a couple of times, one time closing in on him to emphasise my wanting to pass. As I had no reaction I moved (with indication) into lane 2. I held back for a few seconds in case he chose to move over. He didn't, I accelerated past, checking that no-one was likely to start an overtake from lane 1, covering the horn.

How is that any more dangerous than an overtake?

I'm of the mindset that if the flow of traffic is faster than the hogger and the undertake can be made relatively safely then do it. I'm not talking about contstant weaving through traffic, but if a single vehicle is slowing your "safe" progress then a planned undertake may be suitable.

Karl

[75_Steve]

DJ_AS said:

ClioKarl said:

Why I should sit behind a driver who is not driving (safely) up to the speed limit, in the wrong lane, with no consideration for other drivers?

Karl

Because by not doing so you may create a dangerous situation. See my original post.

Lane hogging = frustrating
Undertaking = dangerous

Rubbish.

I spend large parts of my day 'undertaking', 'cos there are far too many muppets out there who sit in the outside lane of 2 lane motorways / dual carriageways because they can see a truck in L1 a couple of miles ahead. Or may be they sit there 'cos L1 is the 'slow' lane and they're not 'slow', 'cos they're driving at the speed limit.

I've been known, on particularly bad days, to drive the car like I ride my bike along the M4 near Newport.

[Bing o]

1. What is the likelihood of them pulling over - very low.

2. If they do I have the hard shoulder to escape into, I have no such luxury when in L3.

3. I have never been sideswiped when undertaking.

4. I have been sideswiped when overtaking.

5. Government road policy is failing all of us.

[Yung Man]

It has been said on here that if you move to the left to undertake it could result in a charge so let me ask a question.

You are driving down a quiet motorway in lane 1, up ahead is a lone car in lane 2 doing about 65mph, If you move from lane 1 to lane 2 and give him a flash and he doesn't move you could be commiting an offence if you then return to lane 1 to pass him, If on the other hand you don't move over to lane 2, then you flash him what is he going to think you mean, surely he is not likely to move into your lane but at least you can undertake him, in theory.

The question is which would you do? because IMO once you have moved out into lane 2 you can't move back.

[Size Nine Elm]

BertBert said:

One of the things that the OP said was about his contribution...his position may have concealed the LH indicator of the people carrier. The OP also had a tailgater, so would a safer course of action have been to help the weaker driver. If the OP had moved over to L2, he could have created a safe buffer for the people carrier to pull into.

Another potential aid would have been to position himself slightly to the right of the people carrier, so the tailgater would have view of the left indicator, and be aware earlier of the poeple carrier moving to the left.

[deviant]

gdaybruce said:

Something I've wondered about is that undertaking is now so commonplace I'm sure there's an increasing number of drivers who think that since so many drivers do it, it's not only normal but must be legal (or at least, not illegal). It's one thing when someone undertakes, fully aware of the risk they're taking and ready to react if the vehicle ahead pulls across in front of them, but I fear that some people now undertake believing they have right of way and they're ready to get very upset if the vehicle ahead pulls across. I wonder if there are any stats that identify undertaking as a cause of accidents.

It's all part of the growing frustration that comes with more crowded roads, leading to those who lack confidence/awareness (or are just bloody minded) sticking resolutely to their chosen lane, often because they're afraid of getting trapped in lane 1. Meanwhile, those who are impatient and frustrated take to undertaking.

The solution? Apart from less traffic (difficult) I'd like to see a controlled trial of legal undertaking on multi lane roads. The only other alternatives I can see are a combination of driver training (we wish) and better enforcement of driving standards by marked police cars. Otherwise, undertaking will continue to increase and become increasingly "normal".

I assume by the username 'gdaybruce' you have spent some time in Australia?

For those that dont know...You can overtake on either side here...so for the few places there is a 3 lane road you can choose to go to the left or right lane to overtake.

Above 80KMH (90KMH in some places) you must stay in the left lane. In some places where the limit is lower there might be signs saying "Driva safe, stay left"...these are not actually just giving advise, you must stay left.

Personally I HATE that you can use any lane to overtake:

It promotes swerving from lane to lane to make progress
It promotes poor lane discipline "Pfft why do I need to pull back over when they can just go in the other lane"
Countless times I have seen someone dawdle in the middle lane, a car go either side and then both try and merge back in to the centre lane at the same time in front of the dawdler!
People end up trapped in the right hand lane as no-one will let them move back to the left.

Admittadly aussie driving standards are pretty shocking but with roads as busy as the UK's I dont think being able to 'undertake' would be a good idea!

[RumbleBee]

DJ_AS, had you been further back from the people carrier, the undertaking cars could have seen it sooner and possibly avoided what happened. Im not saying that I think that undertaking is acceptable, but you have to anticipate what other people will do, even if it is stupid. There is no need to go right up behind people to get them to move over, a quick flash of lights or RH indicator will do from a reasonable distance IMHO. I dont want to criticise your driving, but making a suggestion to a possible solution.

As for the evil eye, keep that on the road, a hand gesture is sufficient.

[DJ_AS]

RumbleBee said:

DJ_AS, had you been further back from the people carrier, the undertaking cars could have seen it sooner and possibly avoided what happened. Im not saying that I think that undertaking is acceptable, but you have to anticipate what other people will do, even if it is stupid. There is no need to go right up behind people to get them to move over, a quick flash of lights or RH indicator will do from a reasonable distance IMHO. I dont want to criticise your driving, but making a suggestion to a possible solution.

As for the evil eye, keep that on the road, a hand gesture is sufficient.

I was sitting a safe distance from the people carrier - at least two seconds. I never tailgate, sometimes I give a flash of the headlights and that is normally sufficient.

I do agree with what you say about anticipating others actions. My instructor used to say to me "always expect the people around you to do the stupidest things, so that when they do, you will be prepared".

I think the best suggestion to what I could have done is anticipated that the undertake was about to happen (the guy tailgating me) and moved over to lane 2 myself.