Dealing with people joining from a slip road.
Discussion
Being a truck driver I usually find myself doing 56 mph as I pass on ramps, I never have and never will pull out into lane 2 "just in case" something might appear on the on ramp, I'm too big and too slow to do that.
The problem I have is with some(not many) car drivers, they come down or up the ramp doing the same speed as me, what do they expect me to do?, slow down? move over? disappear?, this is what happened last night.
J23 northbound a Transit van came up the on ramp at 56mph, lanes 2 and 3 where busy so I could not move over, he didn't speed up or slow down he ran up the hard shoulder for 500 yards then eventually passed me indicated right and pulled into lane 1.
Then 2 miles further at J24 an estate car with a box on the roof did a similar thing, he went right to the end of the slip road expecting me to move over instead of him speeding up, the slip road was a down hill one, if he choses to try to join at 56 mph what does he expect?.
He braked hardish then slotted in behind then when he pulled out to pass me he stayed in lane 2, there was nothing in lane 1 to pass. (MLM)
I have lost count of the number of times I have pulled out to let someone doing 50 to 56mph just to find that they then sit beside you in your blind spot for the next 2 miles, you then look like an inconsiderate trucker hogging lane 2, they usually then speed up and give a dirty look as they pass.
This is why I have stopped moving over, If you are going fast enough you will find a spot to join.
The problem I have is with some(not many) car drivers, they come down or up the ramp doing the same speed as me, what do they expect me to do?, slow down? move over? disappear?, this is what happened last night.
J23 northbound a Transit van came up the on ramp at 56mph, lanes 2 and 3 where busy so I could not move over, he didn't speed up or slow down he ran up the hard shoulder for 500 yards then eventually passed me indicated right and pulled into lane 1.
Then 2 miles further at J24 an estate car with a box on the roof did a similar thing, he went right to the end of the slip road expecting me to move over instead of him speeding up, the slip road was a down hill one, if he choses to try to join at 56 mph what does he expect?.
He braked hardish then slotted in behind then when he pulled out to pass me he stayed in lane 2, there was nothing in lane 1 to pass. (MLM)
I have lost count of the number of times I have pulled out to let someone doing 50 to 56mph just to find that they then sit beside you in your blind spot for the next 2 miles, you then look like an inconsiderate trucker hogging lane 2, they usually then speed up and give a dirty look as they pass.
This is why I have stopped moving over, If you are going fast enough you will find a spot to join.
Do not expect L1 drivers to make room for me and nor do I believe that they should. It is encumbent upon me to merge with L1 in a safe manner. This to me means judging and matching the traffic speed- in 90% of instances means behind the vehicle, on occassions, in front. When in front, the driver and I have generally made eye contact, if not, it is very obvious that my vehicle is accelerating - should the L1 driver decide to accelerate also, I will concede and lift off.
This of course relies on L1 drivers leaving sufficient room between vehicles.
In circumstances with crawling L1 traffic - if you use the indicator and match speed - the vast majority of drivers will allow you to merge.
There are a bunch of people out there that belive you do not have to use indicators when joining - because it is obvious. Not convinced, plus it is only common courtesy.
Ascribe to the view that most "HGV" drivers are the best of the bunch.
This of course relies on L1 drivers leaving sufficient room between vehicles.
In circumstances with crawling L1 traffic - if you use the indicator and match speed - the vast majority of drivers will allow you to merge.
There are a bunch of people out there that belive you do not have to use indicators when joining - because it is obvious. Not convinced, plus it is only common courtesy.
Ascribe to the view that most "HGV" drivers are the best of the bunch.
Edited by T5R+ on Saturday 3rd November 18:28
It is very common to see an HGV move out of lane 1 at the approach to a slip road on seeing traffic arriving 'in phase' with them. Occasionally they can't, or simply can't be ar$ed, and it makes life much harder for the people trying to join. I try to leave lane 1 clear on the approach to a joining slip road when there are people trying to join, and I'll try to avoid boxing in drivers in L1 who might need to pull out. I think this is simply common courtesy. Sometimes it isn't possible, but if I can't get out of their way I'll do my best to cooperate to help them join. I have some sympathy with truck drivers who find it harder to change lane or speed, but I hope they would make the effort where it's feasible and not just bloody mindedly hold their course and speed and leave it to everyone else to cope. In my experience, the majority do make the effort.
Dogwatch said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
It is common courtesy if you’re driving along the motorway, to give assistance to joining drivers if it’s safe to do so. If traffic allows, you should try to make allowance for the joining drivers by moving to lane 2 and/or adjusting your speed.
However, as a joining driver, you should never expect people to make these allowances. It’s become all too common these days for drivers to simply expect people on the motorway to make allowances for them. Always remember that the onus is on the joining driver to make the allowances – not on the drivers who are already on the motorway. If, for whatever reason, someone doesn’t or can’t make allowances for you, then make another plan.
Here is a quote from your referance.However, as a joining driver, you should never expect people to make these allowances. It’s become all too common these days for drivers to simply expect people on the motorway to make allowances for them. Always remember that the onus is on the joining driver to make the allowances – not on the drivers who are already on the motorway. If, for whatever reason, someone doesn’t or can’t make allowances for you, then make another plan.
GreenV8S said:
It is very common to see an HGV move out of lane 1 at the approach to a slip road on seeing traffic arriving 'in phase' with them.
From my experience trucks move over because the car looks like it coming on anyway, If car drivers drove above 56mph when joining trucks wouldn't have to move over.I realise along with most truckers that moving over to let let someone on usually inconveniences others, if anyone is going to be inconvenienced it should be the one trying to join.
GreenV8S said:
I have some sympathy with truck drivers who find it harder to change lane or speed, but I hope they would make the effort where it's feasible and not just bloody mindedly hold their course and speed and leave it to everyone else to cope. In my experience, the majority do make the effort.
7db said:
But if it's easy to move over and give joining vehicles room then why be bloody minded and not give them (and you) more space?
You both use the term "bloody minded", do you realise how inconvenient it is to the flow of traffic to have a big truck doing 56mph move over one lane and then back again when usually the car joining goes fron the slip road at 55mph to lane one where they then seems to suddenly wake up when at the side of the truck to speed up because they realise if they let the truck get in front they will have to move out to pass him, so their utter incompetence leads to everybody within a 500yard range having to adjust their driving.If you make joining easy for idiots they begin to think that is the norm, a few years of doing that and people start to give you the finger when you DON'T move over, IMO most good drivers don't expect any favours when joining it's just the few (like I said in the OP) that cause the problem.
Yung Man said:
You both use the term "bloody minded", do you realise how inconvenient it is to the flow of traffic to have a big truck doing 56mph move over one lane and then back again
Doesn't stop them overtaking another doing 55mph.Yung Man said:
If you make joining easy for idiots they begin to think that is the norm, a few years of doing that and people start to give you the finger when you DON'T move over, IMO most good drivers don't expect any favours when joining it's just the few (like I said in the OP) that cause the problem.
I think we are there. I'd say most expect you to help their entry.Yung Man said:
You both use the term "bloody minded"
Yung Man said:
If you make joining easy for idiots...
Looks bloody minded to me. Attitude is - in my view - one of the most dangerous things on the road, and one of the hardest to change and correct. I'm sure we all see incidents each and every day where if the person "in the right" had decided to help the other guy rather than shut him down, traffic would flow better and everyone would be safer.
If you're good, if you're better than the other guy, if you have priority but space to manoeuvre, then why not help the other fellow out, rather than punishing him for his poor driving, his mistakes, his bad luck or lack of foresight and ability?
Yung Man said:
You both use the term "bloody minded", do you realise how inconvenient it is to the flow of traffic to have a big truck doing 56mph move over one lane and then back again when usually the car joining goes fron the slip road at 55mph to lane one where they then seems to suddenly wake up when at the side of the truck to speed up because they realise if they let the truck get in front they will have to move out to pass him, so their utter incompetence leads to everybody within a 500yard range having to adjust their driving.
If you make joining easy for idiots they begin to think that is the norm, a few years of doing that and people start to give you the finger when you DON'T move over, IMO most good drivers don't expect any favours when joining it's just the few (like I said in the OP) that cause the problem.
By your logic it would seem that we should never make any attempt to assist other drivers because they will only start taking it for granted. That is IMO a very poor attitude to adopt.If you make joining easy for idiots they begin to think that is the norm, a few years of doing that and people start to give you the finger when you DON'T move over, IMO most good drivers don't expect any favours when joining it's just the few (like I said in the OP) that cause the problem.
Drivers on the slip road have a crisis if they can't merge into lane 1 by the end of the slip road. They only have to be boxed in to the slip road for a few seconds to make life difficult for them. In contrast, traffic on the motorway suffers no particular problem if a vehicle moves from lane 1 to lane 2, at worst a few people have to slow down for a few seconds. Drivers in lane 2 can prevent this from being a problem by anticipating and cooperating with the lane 1 driver if necessary. It's not always necessary, it's not always possible, but sometimes a little bit of cooperation from other drivers makes life a lot easier. I'm happy to say that in my experience this cooperation is the norm rather than the exception. No doubt there are a few bloody minded idiots who won't lift a finger, I can't stop that, but perhaps if the rest of us lead by example they might get the message.
7db said:
Yung Man said:
You both use the term "bloody minded"
Yung Man said:
If you make joining easy for idiots...
Looks bloody minded to me. Attitude is - in my view - one of the most dangerous things on the road, and one of the hardest to change and correct. I'm sure we all see incidents each and every day where if the person "in the right" had decided to help the other guy rather than shut him down, traffic would flow better and everyone would be safer.
If you're good, if you're better than the other guy, if you have priority but space to manoeuvre, then why not help the other fellow out, rather than punishing him for his poor driving, his mistakes, his bad luck or lack of foresight and ability?
So everytime an idiot trys to join a motorway one person moves over, 3 people back off the throttle and plan to move to lane 3 and somewhere further back 4 people are on their brakes, all for what?.
7db your intentions are well meaning and if its a truck or a car pulling a trailer then yes but just because a trucker doesn't move over to let a car on that is dawdling don't always assume he is being "Bloody Minded", comments like that encourage novice drivers to blame the trucker instead of the car joining, then again it's perhaps novice drivers than join like that.
Yung Man said:
just because a trucker doesn't move over to let a car on that is dawdling don't always assume he is being "Bloody Minded", comments like that encourage novice drivers to blame the trucker instead of the car joining, then again it's perhaps novice drivers than join like that.
Just because the trucker is a **** doesn't mean that it's not the novice driver's fault. Equally, simply because someone else is "in the wrong" and needs a hand from his fellow motorist, doesn't mean that the trucker isn't a ****.You're probably perfect in every way when you drive and don't need anyone else's help - and hey if you're a trucker and either you screw up or someone else does and you don't accommodate them, then probably someone else will be doing the dying.
Really good drivers make the roads safer for everyone. Everyone else can do better.
7db said:
Yung Man said:
just because a trucker doesn't move over to let a car on that is dawdling don't always assume he is being "Bloody Minded", comments like that encourage novice drivers to blame the trucker instead of the car joining, then again it's perhaps novice drivers than join like that.
Just because the trucker is a **** doesn't mean that it's not the novice driver's fault. Equally, simply because someone else is "in the wrong" and needs a hand from his fellow motorist, doesn't mean that the trucker isn't a ****.Yung Man said:
This is why I have stopped moving over, If you are going fast enough you will find a spot to join.
I don't expect or anticipate that trucks will move over to make life easier when I'm joining. All I would ask is that they leave enough space to the vehicle in front to allow me to slot in easily. I know (in a reasonably powerful car) it's a lot easier for me to match speed and I'm happy to use the flexibility I have. I often find joining in front of a truck very easy because I know he's 'protecting' my rear. Observer2 said:
Yung Man said:
This is why I have stopped moving over, If you are going fast enough you will find a spot to join.
I don't expect or anticipate that trucks will move over to make life easier when I'm joining. All I would ask is that they leave enough space to the vehicle in front to allow me to slot in easily. I know (in a reasonably powerful car) it's a lot easier for me to match speed and I'm happy to use the flexibility I have. I often find joining in front of a truck very easy because I know he's 'protecting' my rear. Dogwatch said:
R U Local discussed this here along with other motorway related matters.
I have seen a few old Volvos sitting at the end of the slip road with their right-hand indicator blinking hopefully. Absolute menace.
No doubt, but you don't see many "old" Volvo's zipping along at a ton +, undertaking and tailgating. I have seen a few old Volvos sitting at the end of the slip road with their right-hand indicator blinking hopefully. Absolute menace.
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