I'm bored with driving..
Discussion
I've been thinking mk2 golf gti or a pug 205 gti (I used to own one, until I had a wet roundabout incident in it) to use as a track car.
Its more an issue of whether I should get a roadlegal car an pay to tax and insure it to drive to tracks, or whether to buy a trailer and not worry about insuring/taxing it.
Its more an issue of whether I should get a roadlegal car an pay to tax and insure it to drive to tracks, or whether to buy a trailer and not worry about insuring/taxing it.
One day a consensus emerges which sees the construction of a multi billion pound, expanded road network.
Some roads and m-ways are widened, others piggybacked by suspended carriageways whilst elsewhere, subterranean autobahnen emerge.
It's a mixture of fixed, variable and totally derestricted macadam, characterised by 'free' and tollway routiering.
Lane discipline, rather than contextually free considerations of speed per se, become the new smoking: the outcast faux pas of a reconfigured zeitgeist. People are initially offered the opportunity to retrain that they might overcome the ignorant inefficiencies of bumbling, lane hoggery.
Licences are reconfigured for individuals rather than a lowest common denominator, one size fits all, communist system.
...and then I wake up.
Some roads and m-ways are widened, others piggybacked by suspended carriageways whilst elsewhere, subterranean autobahnen emerge.
It's a mixture of fixed, variable and totally derestricted macadam, characterised by 'free' and tollway routiering.
Lane discipline, rather than contextually free considerations of speed per se, become the new smoking: the outcast faux pas of a reconfigured zeitgeist. People are initially offered the opportunity to retrain that they might overcome the ignorant inefficiencies of bumbling, lane hoggery.
Licences are reconfigured for individuals rather than a lowest common denominator, one size fits all, communist system.
...and then I wake up.
leon_t said:
IA lot of people have suggested track days, but to find a car physically up to doing one that I can drive to a track adds up to quite an expensive sum.
??? what on earth are you on about? http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/284172.htm
Sold now but this could have been yours for £3.5k, was mine, developed over a few years, utterly bullet proof & darn nippy on track, yet still fine on road drove to 'ring, Spa & South of France track days easy peasy.
After the expense of doing that I wanted to do it more cheaply, fully track prepped e30 325i caged decent suspension etc similar pace to the Golf but far diferent to drive obviously, done 5 track days no probs, circa £1200 all in.
For £3.5k budget can get good e36M3 (need to be careful tho) or fully sorted Turbo MX5 mk1, which are glorious little cars.
derestrictor said:
One day a consensus emerges which sees the construction of a multi billion pound, expanded road network.
Some roads and m-ways are widened, others piggybacked by suspended carriageways whilst elsewhere, subterranean autobahnen emerge.
It's a mixture of fixed, variable and totally derestricted macadam, characterised by 'free' and tollway routiering.
Lane discipline, rather than contextually free considerations of speed per se, become the new smoking: the outcast faux pas of a reconfigured zeitgeist. People are initially offered the opportunity to retrain that they might overcome the ignorant inefficiencies of bumbling, lane hoggery.
Licences are reconfigured for individuals rather than a lowest common denominator, one size fits all, communist system.
...and then I wake up.
Yes, very logical.Some roads and m-ways are widened, others piggybacked by suspended carriageways whilst elsewhere, subterranean autobahnen emerge.
It's a mixture of fixed, variable and totally derestricted macadam, characterised by 'free' and tollway routiering.
Lane discipline, rather than contextually free considerations of speed per se, become the new smoking: the outcast faux pas of a reconfigured zeitgeist. People are initially offered the opportunity to retrain that they might overcome the ignorant inefficiencies of bumbling, lane hoggery.
Licences are reconfigured for individuals rather than a lowest common denominator, one size fits all, communist system.
...and then I wake up.
Logic though, was never part of many Human decisions.
Especially of those who rule.
Unless anyone has already said it, consider getting a late classic mini. You will find it very hard to have as much fun within the speed limits....even in a 30!!! Sticks to corners like glue (in the dry), predictable understeer in the wet, you can customise and customise until your heart is content and will bring you endless fun!!
I can't wait to get another one!!!
I can't wait to get another one!!!
You know i was saying like the op about not wanting end up falling off the road and making a mess. This was last saterday.
Shit.
Fortunatly i was basicaly unhurt, and other than one minor scratch debrie no other cars where involved. However it was deffonatly fairly close with the whole fence though the window thing, and it just goes to show you never know whats going to happen next.
- This on a local but unfamiluar road, and i was not doing more than 30mph into the bend, when it all ended up coming out wrong. Cars written off and only insured TPFT. And ive certainly learnt some form of lesson. But yeah, bugger. What a shame and what a prat.
Daniel
Shit.
Fortunatly i was basicaly unhurt, and other than one minor scratch debrie no other cars where involved. However it was deffonatly fairly close with the whole fence though the window thing, and it just goes to show you never know whats going to happen next.
- This on a local but unfamiluar road, and i was not doing more than 30mph into the bend, when it all ended up coming out wrong. Cars written off and only insured TPFT. And ive certainly learnt some form of lesson. But yeah, bugger. What a shame and what a prat.
Daniel
dhutch said:
However it was deffonatly fairly close with the whole fence though the window thing,
You were very lucky - not a million miles from you:http://www.eveningleader.co.uk/news/Tragic-end-to-...
Nasty, unlucky mate 
Lift off oversteer moment?
Anyway, I just read this thread with interest, and I think there is some sense into getting cars that are "less boring" to get you to slow down, when I had a ride in a Griff it was clear to me that you didnt need to be going fast at all to have fun...
Similarly with the Elise, and the Honda ITR that I own now...
But ultimately it comes down to the driver, and even though I dont have to drive my ITR like I stole it to have fun, I still do sometimes. End of the day, its all about willpower, but less boring cars definitely help.
Lift off oversteer moment?Anyway, I just read this thread with interest, and I think there is some sense into getting cars that are "less boring" to get you to slow down, when I had a ride in a Griff it was clear to me that you didnt need to be going fast at all to have fun...
Similarly with the Elise, and the Honda ITR that I own now...
But ultimately it comes down to the driver, and even though I dont have to drive my ITR like I stole it to have fun, I still do sometimes. End of the day, its all about willpower, but less boring cars definitely help.
Deva Link said:
dhutch said:
However it was deffonatly fairly close with the whole fence though the window thing,
You were very lucky - not a million miles from you:http://www.eveningleader.co.uk/news/Tragic-end-to-...
Vaux said:
dhutch said:
You know i was saying like the op about not wanting end up falling off the road and making a mess. This was last saterday.
Glad you're OK.Is that road the A559 in Cheshire (coming from junction 10 M56)?- I've only ever driven that road once, and in the other direction beucase home is down the A49 and i dont go to warrington that often.
- But that day i was going on to nantwich from warrington to meet my mum. I might well have stayed on the m6 to sandbach and done it that way (having done m56 m6 m62 to get round warrington) but decided against it because the road was horrable with spray and everyone was doing 90+. So i favoured the a49 route, and just changed my mind at the last second to thr 559 for a bit of variation.
- Apprently the bend in question is a one-a-week job, and certainly the number of chucks out of the curb, and the shear volume of debri from other cars (diffrent colours, makes, models) was staggering. And the fences for all of the other three 'run-off areas' for the dogleg where all down or holed.
pbirkett said:
Nasty, unlucky mate Lift off oversteer moment?
Lift off oversteer moment?lunchbox said:
Care to give some details on how that happened?
Just lost it on an supprisingly tight bend.- I was doing about 50 on the approaching stright, slowed to around 30 for the bend, which had a few chevrons on it and the like.
- Went in to bend fine and got round the first half of it. Then it tightened (which wasnt at all obvous or clear before you got to it) and the car started to understeer badly.
- I then just remember heard the thunk of it going over the square curb, and thinking 'shit thats buggered my wheels' and then i just have an image of fence going everywhere, blanking (presumably closing my eyes as the fence rail came through) and coming to rest where the car is photographed. And turning round to see the fence rail 4inchs from my ear.
Its quite possable that at the very last minute i got some over stear. Or else the impact of the front wheels with the curb started the car turning. (quite large damage to front wheels, but very little rears)
Eather way from the tracks in the mud and damage to the car its basicaly pivoted about the front of the car , with the center of the bumper following the line of the fence pretty accuratly thoughout till the rest position.
-No real damage to any of the car other the front, which took an upper rail to the windscreen as seen, and a lower rail to the radiator.
- However it was uneconomincal to repair really, even if doing the work myself (which i dont have to time to) becuase it would have needed replacment radiator, bumper, headlamps, windscreen, work to the engine loom, aircon, new/repaired wheels tyres all round, proberbly a new rhs wing, repair to lhs and bonnet. The list just goes on. Hence deciding saddly to brake it for parts.
But yeah, really makes you think a lot.
- 30mph isnt very fast for a car, on an a-road or otherwise. But its damm fast for a wooden fence rail.
- Im not sure the Barum Brillientis' on the front did a world of good eather, although they where in good nick.
Daniel
Wow, sobering photos there - glad you're ok! I'm sure that to say you got a fright is an understatement. Still, you (and us, thanks to your sharing) are a wiser man for it.
When I started this thread, I really was bored with driving, but the last few weeks have been a bit of a reconnaissance for me. I'll explain how/why it happened, and maybe that can help a few of you guys with the same problem as myself.
There's a stretch of motorway near me that I travel on almost daily. The limit drops from 70 to 40 going over a bridge, and of course no-one pays any attention to it. The first few times I went over it at 40 felt almost dangerously slow. Nothing else was travelling at less than 50/60mph. I stuck to the 40mph limit, and after a little while I actually got a bit of a buzz from it. I know it sounds weird, but I guess the best way to describe it is that by being the only car obeying the limit, it made me feel like a much better driver than I really am. Being tailgated when obeying the limit gave me a smug sense of "well fck you buddy, I know what I'm doing, while you evidently don't". Like I say, it's a weird mindset, but I have began almost taking pride in being the only one sticking to the limit. Of course, once the limit changed to 70, I got a childish thrill out of leaving the tailgaters standing.
Anyway, that mentality has transferred over to my driving in every other situation. When I'm sticking to a 30 limit religiously, I get a thrill out of really trying to be the best driver on the road. Of course, it's not as fun as being the fastest, lol, but it's a surprisingly good substitute. Now, I live for the areas where limits change from 30 - 70, and that acceleration feeling keeps me enthusiastic about it all. Plus, I've booked a track day to get a lot of the less desirable impulses out of my system. This thread has really helped, knowing that I'm not the only one that feels like this, and lots of the advice given has been great.
Great advice guys, so thanks, and safe driving over the festive season!
Erd
dhutch said:
Yeah exactly, A559 at antrobus. .......
Apprently the bend in question is a one-a-week job, and certainly the number of chucks out of the curb, and the shear volume of debri from other cars (diffrent colours, makes, models) was staggering. And the fences for all of the other three 'run-off areas' for the dogleg where all down or holed.
Drove it yesterday - your hole is repaired! Apprently the bend in question is a one-a-week job, and certainly the number of chucks out of the curb, and the shear volume of debri from other cars (diffrent colours, makes, models) was staggering. And the fences for all of the other three 'run-off areas' for the dogleg where all down or holed.
It is a tight bend on a road which is otherwise quite flowing.
erdnase said:
Wow, sobering photos there - glad you're ok! I'm sure that to say you got a fright is an understatement. Still, you (and us, thanks to your sharing) are a wiser man for it.
When I started this thread, I really was bored with driving, but the last few weeks have been a bit of a reconnaissance for me. I'll explain how/why it happened, and maybe that can help a few of you guys with the same problem as myself.
There's a stretch of motorway near me that I travel on almost daily. The limit drops from 70 to 40 going over a bridge, and of course no-one pays any attention to it. The first few times I went over it at 40 felt almost dangerously slow. Nothing else was travelling at less than 50/60mph. I stuck to the 40mph limit, and after a little while I actually got a bit of a buzz from it. I know it sounds weird, but I guess the best way to describe it is that by being the only car obeying the limit, it made me feel like a much better driver than I really am. Being tailgated when obeying the limit gave me a smug sense of "well fck you buddy, I know what I'm doing, while you evidently don't". Like I say, it's a weird mindset, but I have began almost taking pride in being the only one sticking to the limit. Of course, once the limit changed to 70, I got a childish thrill out of leaving the tailgaters standing.
Anyway, that mentality has transferred over to my driving in every other situation. When I'm sticking to a 30 limit religiously, I get a thrill out of really trying to be the best driver on the road. Of course, it's not as fun as being the fastest, lol, but it's a surprisingly good substitute. Now, I live for the areas where limits change from 30 - 70, and that acceleration feeling keeps me enthusiastic about it all. Plus, I've booked a track day to get a lot of the less desirable impulses out of my system. This thread has really helped, knowing that I'm not the only one that feels like this, and lots of the advice given has been great.
Great advice guys, so thanks, and safe driving over the festive season!
Erd
Yeah, well im glad that the photos are of use to others, and thats one of the main reasons ive posted them up.When I started this thread, I really was bored with driving, but the last few weeks have been a bit of a reconnaissance for me. I'll explain how/why it happened, and maybe that can help a few of you guys with the same problem as myself.
There's a stretch of motorway near me that I travel on almost daily. The limit drops from 70 to 40 going over a bridge, and of course no-one pays any attention to it. The first few times I went over it at 40 felt almost dangerously slow. Nothing else was travelling at less than 50/60mph. I stuck to the 40mph limit, and after a little while I actually got a bit of a buzz from it. I know it sounds weird, but I guess the best way to describe it is that by being the only car obeying the limit, it made me feel like a much better driver than I really am. Being tailgated when obeying the limit gave me a smug sense of "well fck you buddy, I know what I'm doing, while you evidently don't". Like I say, it's a weird mindset, but I have began almost taking pride in being the only one sticking to the limit. Of course, once the limit changed to 70, I got a childish thrill out of leaving the tailgaters standing.
Anyway, that mentality has transferred over to my driving in every other situation. When I'm sticking to a 30 limit religiously, I get a thrill out of really trying to be the best driver on the road. Of course, it's not as fun as being the fastest, lol, but it's a surprisingly good substitute. Now, I live for the areas where limits change from 30 - 70, and that acceleration feeling keeps me enthusiastic about it all. Plus, I've booked a track day to get a lot of the less desirable impulses out of my system. This thread has really helped, knowing that I'm not the only one that feels like this, and lots of the advice given has been great.
Great advice guys, so thanks, and safe driving over the festive season!
Erd
- Ive been driving three years, proberbly clocking up 20k or so, all in that same car. And i think sub-contiously i thought of thought i'd gotten away with the "everyone crashes in there first few years" thing without actaully crashing.
- However clearly that was far from the case. And i tell you that i dont think anyone can learn or understand as much about driving that in coming off the road quite so out of the blue as that. And it being quite such a close call.
- That said, hopefull as i say it can atleast be something for the more keen to exersice there mind on! I dont feel at all clever for crashing, however im quite sure its mad me wiser, and its certainly triggered me to do a lot of thinking about the lead up and events after said saturday.
Vaux said:
Drove it yesterday - your hole is repaired!
It is a tight bend on a road which is otherwise quite flowing.
Yeah, the hole was gone when i went past with my dad on the friday just gone.It is a tight bend on a road which is otherwise quite flowing.
- I beleave the bloke in question has only recently bought the feild, which possable explanes his keeness as yet to keep a fence there. Apprrently he wants to keep horses on it, but hasnt been able to yet for fear of them being harmed or frightend,
- I also notice that he's re-erected the fence with the rails behind the posts (feild side rather the road side) and that the bulk of them are now in 6ft sections rather than being full 12ft rails. Which might be a little safer for the next victim of said bend.
Daniel
You were very lucky - not a million miles from you:
http://www.eveningleader.co.uk/news/Tragic-end-to-...
Interesting that the police admitted you could take that corner way faster normally without incident
[quote]PC Baddeley also said the bend could be navigated at up to 100mph and Amy had been travelling at about 50mph.
[/quote]
So have you had to pay the farmer for the fence fixing up?
Not a particular dig at the crashee on here but there's been so many accidents at a couple of roundabouts local to me that there's now hardly any signs left giving directions! Which just makes people's actions on the roundabouts even more unpredictable as they dive down exits at the last minute.
http://www.eveningleader.co.uk/news/Tragic-end-to-...
Interesting that the police admitted you could take that corner way faster normally without incident
[quote]PC Baddeley also said the bend could be navigated at up to 100mph and Amy had been travelling at about 50mph.
[/quote]
So have you had to pay the farmer for the fence fixing up?
Not a particular dig at the crashee on here but there's been so many accidents at a couple of roundabouts local to me that there's now hardly any signs left giving directions! Which just makes people's actions on the roundabouts even more unpredictable as they dive down exits at the last minute.
Eeek, did that fence post go into the passenger headrest? Lucky no one was there.
It's really sad to say it, but sometimes it's really down to luck when it does all go wrong.
Seen big cars in normal looking accidents not so lucky, and then people in small cars in bad crashes walk away... really is scary when you think you should be safe in a big safe modern car with ESP etc...
As per boredom with driving and the OP, as many have said, get a car that is less smooth, lighter, and less powerful. Something that feels like 100mph at 50mph. It could be the fastest car in the world, but it has to feel fast, and it has to fill your senses and require your attention to drive quickly.
Best example for me is my old 306 GTi6 vs the 306 Hdi. Diesel is quicker most of the time because you don't need to drive it hard to get the best from it, and it's quieter, and it's just a bit softer edged and smooth. I drive most places really wanting to get my boot down, and to be honest it's pretty boring unless I'm starting to push.
Even my girlfriend seems happy to sit there going quite quickly, such is the lack of experience. In my view it's a fatal flaw. She would complain going that quick in the GTi6, and for good reason. Masking speed isn't so great for fun, and a lack of fun can make driving boring!
The GTi6 on the other hand I drove at the limits in most places much the same, but I really didn't mind in it as much as the diesel, because I knew I was still enjoying the experience even at the speed limit, and the next national limit would be a nice razz upto 68mph in 2nd
Then back to enjoying driving well and enjoying the noises, response, adjustability etc.
I think an Elise 111S or similar would be a good buy going from a Z4. Nice light responsive car, lots of sensations and feeling of speed, enough power to weight to be entertaining when accelerating, and enough power to overtake comfortably etc.
Dave
It's really sad to say it, but sometimes it's really down to luck when it does all go wrong.
Seen big cars in normal looking accidents not so lucky, and then people in small cars in bad crashes walk away... really is scary when you think you should be safe in a big safe modern car with ESP etc...
As per boredom with driving and the OP, as many have said, get a car that is less smooth, lighter, and less powerful. Something that feels like 100mph at 50mph. It could be the fastest car in the world, but it has to feel fast, and it has to fill your senses and require your attention to drive quickly.
Best example for me is my old 306 GTi6 vs the 306 Hdi. Diesel is quicker most of the time because you don't need to drive it hard to get the best from it, and it's quieter, and it's just a bit softer edged and smooth. I drive most places really wanting to get my boot down, and to be honest it's pretty boring unless I'm starting to push.
Even my girlfriend seems happy to sit there going quite quickly, such is the lack of experience. In my view it's a fatal flaw. She would complain going that quick in the GTi6, and for good reason. Masking speed isn't so great for fun, and a lack of fun can make driving boring!
The GTi6 on the other hand I drove at the limits in most places much the same, but I really didn't mind in it as much as the diesel, because I knew I was still enjoying the experience even at the speed limit, and the next national limit would be a nice razz upto 68mph in 2nd
Then back to enjoying driving well and enjoying the noises, response, adjustability etc.I think an Elise 111S or similar would be a good buy going from a Z4. Nice light responsive car, lots of sensations and feeling of speed, enough power to weight to be entertaining when accelerating, and enough power to overtake comfortably etc.
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Wednesday 2nd January 16:46
Mr Whippy said:
Seen big cars in normal looking accidents not so lucky, and then people in small cars in bad crashes walk away... really is scary when you think you should be safe in a big safe modern car with ESP etc...
Current Bosch ad claims:"Independent studies show that 50% of serious road accidents could be prevented if all cars were equipped with ESP".
ESP cannot beat the laws of physics, and the benefits of ESP can be thrown away by driving in a way which throws away the safety benefits. However, it does make a dramatic improvement to even a skilled driver's ability to keep control at the limit.
I suspect that both dhutch's accident and the tragic fatal accident linked by hardboiled phil would have been prevented by fitment of ESP.
Should ESP be a legal requirement?
On cars with ESP, should it be possible to turn it off?
waremark said:
Should ESP be a legal requirement?
On cars with ESP, should it be possible to turn it off?
NO & YESOn cars with ESP, should it be possible to turn it off?
if they designed cars properly the handling wouldnt be so dangerous they need ESP to be driveable. compare a modern car with the ESP off to a 70s saloon. yes the modern car has more grip but almost undoubtedly its got less control on the limit. so if they designed properley, decent handling rather than an all out search for grip then the car would be safer naturally.
id much rather have say 5% less grip for the sake of a netural slide than max grip & it swop ends when it runs out of grip.
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