Cornering Speeds
Discussion
There have been numerous threads on this forum connected with cornering techniques, including correct lines, limit point, use of throttle and brakes etc. A thought occurred to me today, however, in that when I’m travelling alone and visibility through a corner permits, I seem to choose a speed that is quicker than 90% of other drivers I encounter. I find myself slowing down when following another car towards a bend so that I have a gap to take the bend itself quicker. Often, this allows for safe overtaking after the bend as I exit carrying considerably more speed.
I guess I simply enjoy using more of the car’s cornering performance than most other folk. I’m not talking about pushing a high performance thoroughbred to its limits here, simply what I would describe as “making progress” in my diesel company Vauxhall, comfortably (to me) within the limits imposed by the conditions and ability of the car.
I just wondered, is this the experience of others on here or am I simply an irresponsible tearaway?
I guess I simply enjoy using more of the car’s cornering performance than most other folk. I’m not talking about pushing a high performance thoroughbred to its limits here, simply what I would describe as “making progress” in my diesel company Vauxhall, comfortably (to me) within the limits imposed by the conditions and ability of the car.
I just wondered, is this the experience of others on here or am I simply an irresponsible tearaway?
I find the same thing, I suspect it comes down partly to the apparent philosophy of modern motoring that the car should stop you feeling anything from outside it, so they try and corner slowly enough that they don't feel any G-forces. People like you and I on the other hand prefer to feel the road and the behaviour of the car so drive accordingly.
Most people simply don't have an interest in pushing a car around the corner. They'll just slow down because theres "A corner" and then speed up afterwards. Remember, 90% or more of drivers have no interest in cars, the mechanics of them or the physics of making a car handle. They just want to get from A to B.
However, sit with or follow a driver who knows a section of road or a journey really well and you'll find that they go much much faster, but probably without consideration for stopping distances or changeable conditions. In particular a few of my parents friends drive WAY too fast on their regular commute, and I couldn't believe the committment they had into some corners - this is tight winding rural roads with very limited vision at times.
I suppose advanced driving is about using the information and performance available to you to make maximum safe progress. If you're not interested in doing that, then why should you bother ballencing the car on a light throttle through a bend, or taking the time on approach to analyse the bend to work out a good speed to negotiate it? The car will roll round uite happily at 40Mph or whatever, so that's what you do.
I often wonder what the roads would be like if everyone had taken some form of advanced river training? Would everyone be looking for that overtaking manouver out of the long right hander?
However, sit with or follow a driver who knows a section of road or a journey really well and you'll find that they go much much faster, but probably without consideration for stopping distances or changeable conditions. In particular a few of my parents friends drive WAY too fast on their regular commute, and I couldn't believe the committment they had into some corners - this is tight winding rural roads with very limited vision at times.
I suppose advanced driving is about using the information and performance available to you to make maximum safe progress. If you're not interested in doing that, then why should you bother ballencing the car on a light throttle through a bend, or taking the time on approach to analyse the bend to work out a good speed to negotiate it? The car will roll round uite happily at 40Mph or whatever, so that's what you do.
I often wonder what the roads would be like if everyone had taken some form of advanced river training? Would everyone be looking for that overtaking manouver out of the long right hander?
You will be faster as you can see that there isn't any obstructions between you and the car in front. The car in front may not have visibility around the bend so could well be going slower. If you like they are unintentionally acting as your early warning system.
In addition they may also have a passenger who doesn't care much for being chucked about.
In addition they may also have a passenger who doesn't care much for being chucked about.
I too find it incredible how people who've bought cars with sporting pretentions seem utterly incabable of carrying cornerspeed (or getting on the gas too, but that's another matter).
Now I don't tear about myself but I still find I'm running up behind people through corners and roundabouts time and time again, even when there's acres of grip and visibility.
My question is why on earth would someone buy a "sports" car and not use it sportingly? Surely it's a false economy.
And I'm talking about when I'm in the Peugeot and even the family Doblo not just the sports car.
SM
Now I don't tear about myself but I still find I'm running up behind people through corners and roundabouts time and time again, even when there's acres of grip and visibility.
My question is why on earth would someone buy a "sports" car and not use it sportingly? Surely it's a false economy.
And I'm talking about when I'm in the Peugeot and even the family Doblo not just the sports car.
SM
I find similar. Quite often there is the problem that I am trying to put into practice what I have been taught with regards cornering on a neutral throttle whereas most road users will corner without any throttle or even brake mid way through a corner.
My concern is that in their rear view mirror (should they acknowledge it's existence and use it), I may appear to be some
who keeps speeding up behind them and then backing off.
My concern is that in their rear view mirror (should they acknowledge it's existence and use it), I may appear to be some
who keeps speeding up behind them and then backing off.LexSport said:
I find similar. Quite often there is the problem that I am trying to put into practice what I have been taught with regards cornering on a neutral throttle whereas most road users will corner without any throttle or even brake mid way through a corner.
My concern is that in their rear view mirror (should they acknowledge it's existence and use it), I may appear to be some who keeps speeding up behind them and then backing off.
From what I can see, TripleS quite often seems to have a bigger gap behind us at the exit of a bend than we do at the entry point. It looks to me as if he's been hanging out with a few advanced driving dudes. My concern is that in their rear view mirror (should they acknowledge it's existence and use it), I may appear to be some
who keeps speeding up behind them and then backing off.
Edited by p1esk on Monday 14th January 19:16
Bruce - would you feel confident that you could stop if say, a tree branch was blocking the road 3/4 of the way around the bend beyond your view as you approached the bend?
I don't corner as fast as I used to. Now that my dog comes with me regularly I try hard not to throw it about. I don't accelerate until the corner is opening out and the "vanishing point" is getting further away from me & even then I don't floor it in case there is another apex or adverse camber on the exit. I live out in the Styx too, so I never know when there is going to be a layer of mud on the road.
I suppose it is too easy for people to carry more speed into a corner than they really wanted. Especially when they are only looking 10 feet ahead of them.
On my own, driving along roads with no trees, buildings etc obscuring the corners, I'll test the limits of adhesion a lot more. It's a great way of building up momentum to pass grandpa/grandma in front
I don't corner as fast as I used to. Now that my dog comes with me regularly I try hard not to throw it about. I don't accelerate until the corner is opening out and the "vanishing point" is getting further away from me & even then I don't floor it in case there is another apex or adverse camber on the exit. I live out in the Styx too, so I never know when there is going to be a layer of mud on the road.
I suppose it is too easy for people to carry more speed into a corner than they really wanted. Especially when they are only looking 10 feet ahead of them.
On my own, driving along roads with no trees, buildings etc obscuring the corners, I'll test the limits of adhesion a lot more. It's a great way of building up momentum to pass grandpa/grandma in front
tigger1 said:
(Quick question - hopefully not o/t!) - why is this only when you're travelling on your own? What is it that makes you corner slower when you have passengers?
Simply because quick cornering is uncomfortable for an uncommitted pasenger - including the collie in the back (although he never complains and he's learned to lean into corners as if riding a bike) - so I tend to drive with more restraint with passengers on board. Conversley, if it's my 20 yr old son riding shotgun I have to resist his urging to go faster ...brisel said:
Bruce - would you feel confident that you could stop if say, a tree branch was blocking the road 3/4 of the way around the bend beyond your view as you approached the bend?
The section of road that triggered this thought was the Whitby to Pickering road over the moors, where I was at the weekend. Anyone who knows it will agree that it's a brilliant driving road with really open visibility across the moors and no trees or walls to obscure the view around most of the bends. At several points you can literally see a mile ahead, across the valley.Where visibility is restricted - including sight of the actual road surface - then clearly speed must be kept so that you can stop in the space you can see to be clear.
Many years ago I came close to learning that lesson the hard way when I came round a downhill left hand bend too fast for the visibility and found a parked/ abandoned car just past the apex. The resulting broadside slide on the wrong side of the road towards a blind right hand bend still turns me pale. From such experiences (if survived) do we learn!
number2301 said:
gdaybruce said:
in my diesel company Vauxhall
Its not a Vectra is it? From commuting 600 miles a week at one point I noticed that the Diesel repmobile Vectras were by far the fastest thing on the road, reps just drive bloody fast.You can try going out on a dark, rainy/foggy night and marvel out how much quicker everyone else corners than you... 
Seriously, I reckon it's because if you watch a lot of drivers, they will jink the car into the corner at the last moment, then brake through to the mid-corner, coast through to the exit and then accelerate again.
This contributes to exaggerated cornering forces for the occupants of that car, whereas you or I would get the braking done early, pick a line through the corner and keep the car on a neutral (nonzero) throttle position, accelerating back out of the bend - a method which can produce much higher cornering speeds and yet with much less disturbance to the occupants.
Also, on the above visibility note, depending on the layout of the road with respect to hedges, other vehicles present, and so on, it's possible to make the difference between a near-blind corner and a clear line of vision by positioning, which might also be the difference between a confident approach speed and an overly cautious one.
Seriously, I reckon it's because if you watch a lot of drivers, they will jink the car into the corner at the last moment, then brake through to the mid-corner, coast through to the exit and then accelerate again.
This contributes to exaggerated cornering forces for the occupants of that car, whereas you or I would get the braking done early, pick a line through the corner and keep the car on a neutral (nonzero) throttle position, accelerating back out of the bend - a method which can produce much higher cornering speeds and yet with much less disturbance to the occupants.
Also, on the above visibility note, depending on the layout of the road with respect to hedges, other vehicles present, and so on, it's possible to make the difference between a near-blind corner and a clear line of vision by positioning, which might also be the difference between a confident approach speed and an overly cautious one.
Good topic, you know. My GF this im a terrible driver and need more lessons because i dont stay in lanes.
I try to explain about keeping up momentum through corners, taking the racing line to be more efficent etc. She said "Why dont they teach you that then" Of course, the streets is not a racing track.
There is also a time and a place for the above. Rush hour, well you have no chance. But late night driving, i enjoy using my car like it should. I dont understand people who come to a corner and slow to 10 MPH when there is no need, even a milk float good take it at teh 30mph speed limit!
I try to explain about keeping up momentum through corners, taking the racing line to be more efficent etc. She said "Why dont they teach you that then" Of course, the streets is not a racing track.
There is also a time and a place for the above. Rush hour, well you have no chance. But late night driving, i enjoy using my car like it should. I dont understand people who come to a corner and slow to 10 MPH when there is no need, even a milk float good take it at teh 30mph speed limit!
stuthemong said:
the racing line maximises corner exit speed.
the correct line to be using on a road maximises visibility.
they are not the same thing!
safety rather than visibility (which is often the limiting factor in safety, but not always), but agree it's not the same thing as maximising exit speed.the correct line to be using on a road maximises visibility.
they are not the same thing!
On road it's positioning for
Safety
Information
Reduce forces (aiding stability/safety)
in that order of importance. You can't sacrifice something higher in the list for something below it.
The maximum speed (if all else is safe) is the highest speed where you are still able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear (on your side of the road) & reasonably expect to remain so, provided of course that speed is also within the posted speed limit. If the road is narrow, then you have to be able to do the above, but make it half the distance you can see to be clear.
Safety
Information
Reduce forces (aiding stability/safety)
in that order of importance. You can't sacrifice something higher in the list for something below it.
The maximum speed (if all else is safe) is the highest speed where you are still able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear (on your side of the road) & reasonably expect to remain so, provided of course that speed is also within the posted speed limit. If the road is narrow, then you have to be able to do the above, but make it half the distance you can see to be clear.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 18th January 07:03
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