left foot braking question...

[BertBert]

flemke said:

BertBert said:

apocalypso said:

What prompted the question was reading about people using LFB to slow the car dramatically in an emergency (on a motorway for example) and saving valuable fractions of seconds, but what I hadn't really thought through was that they were slowing the car but not bringing it to a complete stop - therefore no chance of stalling!

Where did you read about it? I have not heard of it effectively be used in that way. I can't see why it would work. Unless you have your left foot poised above the brake pedal, it would take similar time to get your left foot to the middle as your right foot. Potentially even longer if it is resting under or to the left of the clutch.

Bert

It's actually quite feasible to do in the way that the OP suggests.

In most situations, it is less likely that you will need to bring the car to a halt, and more likely that you will need to trim your speed quickly. By covering the brake with your left foot, you can maintain your throttle position with your right. If the risk that caused you to cover the brake should materialise, you can effect some retardation quickly.
Even if you should have the need to bring the car to a complete halt, in 5th gear the car won't stall until it's going less than 10 mph. In that case there would be ample time after the braking had begun to move your right foot to the brake and then de-clutch with your left.

In road driving, obviously one should take great pains to avoid getting into a position where one would need the savings of 0.2 sec that LFB would provide, but it is accessible.

Best to develop necessary LF sensitivity in an automatic.

Would (do) you drive around everywhere with your left foot covering the brake then?

If so, how does it work? Rather than being able to rest one's left foot and using it to give you stability in the seat, it's hovering over the brake pedal all day. I agree it sounds feasible, but it's of such marginal benefit (especially with the time needed to perfect the lf(emergency)b technique) with the obvious downside, that it can't be worth including in ones advanced driving technique surely?

Bert

[flemke]

BertBert said:

flemke said:

BertBert said:

apocalypso said:

What prompted the question was reading about people using LFB to slow the car dramatically in an emergency (on a motorway for example) and saving valuable fractions of seconds, but what I hadn't really thought through was that they were slowing the car but not bringing it to a complete stop - therefore no chance of stalling!

Where did you read about it? I have not heard of it effectively be used in that way. I can't see why it would work. Unless you have your left foot poised above the brake pedal, it would take similar time to get your left foot to the middle as your right foot. Potentially even longer if it is resting under or to the left of the clutch.

Bert

It's actually quite feasible to do in the way that the OP suggests.

In most situations, it is less likely that you will need to bring the car to a halt, and more likely that you will need to trim your speed quickly. By covering the brake with your left foot, you can maintain your throttle position with your right. If the risk that caused you to cover the brake should materialise, you can effect some retardation quickly.
Even if you should have the need to bring the car to a complete halt, in 5th gear the car won't stall until it's going less than 10 mph. In that case there would be ample time after the braking had begun to move your right foot to the brake and then de-clutch with your left.

In road driving, obviously one should take great pains to avoid getting into a position where one would need the savings of 0.2 sec that LFB would provide, but it is accessible.

Best to develop necessary LF sensitivity in an automatic.

Would (do) you drive around everywhere with your left foot covering the brake then?

If so, how does it work? Rather than being able to rest one's left foot and using it to give you stability in the seat, it's hovering over the brake pedal all day. I agree it sounds feasible, but it's of such marginal benefit (especially with the time needed to perfect the lf(emergency)b technique) with the obvious downside, that it can't be worth including in ones advanced driving technique surely?

Bert

I myself only cover the brake pedal with my LF on rare occasions, but I do do it.

The most common time that I will use it with a manual 'box is when I'm overtaking on the motorway, and the car I'm approaching for the overtake starts to manifest slightly questionable body language.
If there is no obvious reason for him to move into my lane, and after I have waited and his car's body language has settled down, I normally will proceed with the overtake but with my LF covering the brake. That way I can get past him efficiently, but have minimised my reaction time should he, for whatever odd reason, drift towards my car as it approaches his from behind.

If a moron is tailgating me but I have nowhere to go, I sometimes will do just enough of touching the brake pedal to illuminate the brake lights. I will only do this if I've maintained enough throttle that my road speed itself will not be not affected.

[WhoseGeneration]

Ffs, some, including me, find LFB has it's uses, notwithstanding my previous post.
Each, for our own reasons, whether in the driving manual or not.
Live with it.
We can.
Because we have a reason for it.

[ph123]

It's 'bad driving'.

[Don]

ph123 said:

It's 'bad driving'.

What is, exactly?

[BertBert]

WhoseGeneration said:

Ffs, some, including me, find LFB has it's uses, notwithstanding my previous post.
Each, for our own reasons, whether in the driving manual or not.
Live with it.
We can.
Because we have a reason for it.

Who/what are you stressing at WhoseGeneration?
Bert

[ph123]

Don said:

ph123 said:

It's 'bad driving'.

What is, exactly?

Generalizations are evil, accepted.
Imho lfb in a three pedal normal car, sportingly driven, is a nonsense.
However if it pleases you, fine.
I would die in order that you retain the freedom to do it, and celebrate it on Pistonheads.
However, I think it’s a completely unnecessary confusion a. to suggest it’s a smart driving technique, b. practice it.
I suggest this on the basis that the majority of drivers already display a low level of skill, and enthusiastic drivers, certainly on a circuit, are not much better; more evil generalizations, but even if you contend that levels are high, there is still serious room for a whole load of improvement, no?
Imho, enthusiastic drivers are much better encouraged to concentrating on getting the basics right. The simple stuff; observation, awareness, balance, smoothness, technique and so on.
Now I have to declare a personal interest here, in that in a car wherever the circumstances, I like to be absolutely the fastest. Simple, however that is achieved or constituted, AND I like to do it with the least wear and tear, inconvenience to others, in pure harmony, fluidity, in seriously controlled aggression, altogether ‘artistic’ in it’s accomplishment. But the fastest.
Now lfb imho generally is just a confusion. For the driver and the car (unless specifically designed for it). On loose surfaces, where the problem is getting the car turned in the direction where you can open the throttle the longest. And on karts, single seaters, automatics or dsg, maybe that’s where lfb is the natural choice you would make. Fine.
But not in general. I think it’s a red herring to suggest it a technique of any use at all for the majority. One of the principle reasons I think it’s positively bad, is that unless your car is specifically prepared, losing your left foot as a support for your body when being thrown around means that your steering control is seriously compromised, I mean you are ed as far as being able to control a car properly, with any sort of lateral forces playing upon it.
That’s just for starters.
So I think it a wrong thing to come on this website and suggest it’s some sort of clever fast driving technique when in general terms, that is rubbish. (If you want to discuss lfb, the technique for loose surface rally stuff, or saving .2 secs per lap at Silverstone in the latest GT1, like I did, great, I’m you man. That’s cool, I LOVE that sort of discussion; let’s get into Copse hard. &#8230.
But in general, lfb is not a sensible advanced driving technique that the majority of drivers can regard as a ‘good thing’. It is not. It bar-room bullshit, that’s all. Anyone who contends otherwise, given the qualifications above, is completely wrong and it in my book perfectly constitutes inappropriate ‘bad driving’.
And in answer to the OP, good point, wtf do you do when you about the clutch when you come to a standstill? Forget it or stop braking? Please …
You asked …

[apocalypso]

ph123 said:

And in answer to the OP, good point, wtf do you do when you about the clutch when you come to a standstill? Forget it or stop braking? Please …
You asked …

me? I do nothing! I've never used left foot braking, and I probably won't either, I'd just read a lot about it and the question occured to me. I guess I would probably stall the car and end up looking a bit stupid.

[WhoseGeneration]

BertBert said:

Who/what are you stressing at WhoseGeneration?
Bert

Life, the Universe and everything.
However, to cast aside such "Pop Philosophy".
As I have said here and on other motoring forums(ae?), all I want from other drivers is observation, anticipation and that two seconds gap, extended when circumstances dictate.
Technique, for me, is secondary.

[apocalypso]

WhoseGeneration said:

all I want from other drivers is observation, anticipation and that two seconds gap.

Would make a great t-shirt slogan (or bumper sticker)

[WhatsThatNoise]

Generally a competitive driving technique used for gymkhana and to a lesser extent, road racing...

I only have a need for it in one turn at a particular track...
(So it doesn't really get a lot of use w/ me)

Say I'm going flat into turn #1 but I know I've got a wee bit too much speed &/or the car isn't going to set and I'll have to fight it all the way through.

If I lift and tap the brake w/ my right I'm good except now I'm dealing with TTO or a case of the wobblies at full chat.

Better to just reach over and dab the brake with my left foot to gently rock the car forward a bit while still keeping my right foot to the floor.

Now I've turned in and the car has taken a nice set without getting all cattywompus.

Nice basic thing to have in the tool box if you need it.
But real left foot modulation is a pro skill.