Training in Porsche 911 - Track and Road

[ccl]

Lost the back end of my 911 (993) a couple of times. Was fairly sure that this was due to driver stupidity, but I wasn't sure:

a/ how stupid I had been
b/ why I couldn't feel the break point, and
c/ why I wasn't totally clear when I had reached recovery!

I think that I wasn't totally clear on whether I was driving the car, or the car was driving me!

Anyhow, took a one day course with Bernard Aubry and the outcome is excellent. My driving is smoother, more controlled - but faster if I want it to be! Road time, track time and talking time - which all evolve as the day progresses, to meet your needs. Plus a wealth of interesting anecdotes!

If anyone would like Bernard's details, please let me know.

Edited by ccl on Thursday 24th January 22:41

[Daaave]

You're advertising someone on your first post?... hmmm.

[ccl]

Not the idea to advertise.... no contact methods put in, etc.... but certainly praising... and commenting on the benefit of training.

But if you still think this is a breach, let me know and I'll amend (or something!).

[waremark]

Seems like a good use of the forum to me. Not the first time Bernard has been recommended here - as have various others in the same field.

[crisisjez]

Think you`ll find you have posted in the wrong forum.

These guy`s arn`t really interested in `boy racer` driving (ie car advanced car control techniques such as understeer/oversteer control etc.

Think you`ll find that here cars are driven far too safely for that type of training.

[944Nick]

Who says we aren't?

On the other hand, noone who has an ounce of respect for their fellow man will be giving it large on the public highway.

Just in case you're wondering, this old fart of an advanced driver has done:

- limit handling on ice and snow in Sweden
- courses on left foot braking on low-grip surfaces
- numerous limit-handling courses on firm surfaces
- a significant number of track days and some time at the Nurburgring
- some limited time with tarmac and loose surface rallying

Perhaps you'd like to explain the experience and qualifications which allow you to make your rather biting analysis?

Nick

[crisisjez]

The guy posted on Thursday and has practically been ignored.

It is therefore my conclusion that the type of driving he is eager to share with his fellow PH`rs is of no interest to this forum.

Your response is welcome as it highlights the fact that the OP is being read, just ignored, untill a little defense is called for, when a speedy response is received.

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that the roads are no place to learn or maintain track type driving skills I don`t feel it is necessary to get into a `my dad`s bigger than your dad` contest with you or anyone else over my right to post my views on this or any other forum.

[WhoseGeneration]

crisisjez said:

The guy posted on Thursday and has practically been ignored.

It is therefore my conclusion that the type of driving he is eager to share with his fellow PH`rs is of no interest to this forum.

Your response is welcome as it highlights the fact that the OP is being read, just ignored, untill a little defense is called for, when a speedy response is received.

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that the roads are no place to learn or maintain track type driving skills I don`t feel it is necessary to get into a `my dad`s bigger than your dad` contest with you or anyone else over my right to post my views on this or any other forum.

There has been a useful response and use of search or looking at previous threads can reveal much.
Some time here will also reveal a certain "subtlety" about responses, in the sense that some have to reply with responsibility in mind.
This being a public forum.
Perhaps we need pinned info on Road Advanced courses, Track courses and those organisation and individuals that provide these.

Edited by WhoseGeneration on Tuesday 29th January 00:32

[ccl]

I have read these responses with interest, but some confusion.

To clarify, my day involved some fairly sedate roadwork - where there was room for improvement, which I hadn't realised (very interesting, I thought). This might be the sort of thing that may be of "no interest" to readers.

But it also involved pushing the car through oversteer into understeer (with smoke from tyres!) so that I was absolutely clear as to how control is lost and then recovered - followed by making almost the same manouevre, but with the slightest modification to steering meaning no lost of control! I hasten to add this was off road.

I had considered myself a good driver with a little to learn - the day taught me that I could learn a lot, both about on road and off road.

Pinning of details may be a good idea.

Edited by ccl on Tuesday 29th January 08:03

[Toobin]

ccl said:

a/ how stupid I had been

Very, you should drive within your limits...have you thought about a less powerfull car ie 4x4

ccl said:

b/ why I couldn't feel the break point, and

You clearly have a poor understanding of car control

ccl said:

c/ why I wasn't totally clear when I had reached recovery!

as above

ccl said:

I think that I wasn't totally clear on whether I was driving the car, or the car was driving me!

You clearly watch too much Knightrider

ccl said:

Anyhow, took a one day course with Bernard Aubry and the outcome is excellent. My driving is smoother, more controlled - but faster if I want it to be! Road time, track time and talking time - which all evolve as the day progresses, to meet your needs. Plus a wealth of interesting anecdotes!

If anyone would like Bernard's details, please let me know.

So how are you still losing the back end, he doesnt sound great?

Edited by Toobin on Wednesday 6th February 12:15

[ccl]

I am going to be really careful how I reply to the last post - if there is a secret space station with enough power to destroy planets, then it could clearly destroy me!

Reference last point, I am not still losing the back end.... the day sorted that out for me, thank you! The other 3 points were all historical.

[zuffenhausen74]

This fella's post reinforces what a parochial thing a forum can be sometimes, in theory 6 billion people could use it, the reality is you just get slated by five..He has looked to improve his driving and that is no bad thing is it, post style or not?

[Toobin]

Some of us just have nothing better to do..next I plan on going through the classfieds checking to make sure people aren't advertising Z4M Coupes with Z3M Coupes under the cunningly uninformative banner of MCoupe,then emailling them to tell them how dreadful this is

Those pesky rats!!

[ccl]

Aha.... it all becomes much clearer now..... nothing to do with the original post here then? Enjoy your hunt, I expect you will find some of those!!!!!

Edited by ccl on Wednesday 6th February 13:45

[Adom]

Toobin said:

ccl said:

a/ how stupid I had been

Very, you should drive within your limits...have you thought about a less powerfull car ie 4x4

ccl said:

b/ why I couldn't feel the break point, and

You clearly have a poor understanding of car control

ccl said:

c/ why I wasn't totally clear when I had reached recovery!

as above

ccl said:

I think that I wasn't totally clear on whether I was driving the car, or the car was driving me!

You clearly watch too much Knightrider

ccl said:

Anyhow, took a one day course with Bernard Aubry and the outcome is excellent. My driving is smoother, more controlled - but faster if I want it to be! Road time, track time and talking time - which all evolve as the day progresses, to meet your needs. Plus a wealth of interesting anecdotes!

If anyone would like Bernard's details, please let me know.

So how are you still losing the back end, he doesnt sound great?

Edited by Toobin on Wednesday 6th February 12:15

I hope you're taking the piss otherwise your horse is impressively high...

[Toobin]

Adom said:

I hope you're taking the piss otherwise your horse is impressively high...

[Hoolio]

Toobin said:

Adom said:

I hope you're taking the piss otherwise your horse is impressively high...

[ccl]

Toobin said:

Some of us just have nothing better to do..

?

[tigger1]

crisisjez said:

Think you`ll find that here cars are driven far too safely for that type of training.

Not at all - car control doesn't have to be about generating as much tyre smoke as possible around a long bend.

[crisisjez]

tigger1 said:

crisisjez said:

Think you`ll find that here cars are driven far too safely for that type of training.

Not at all - car control doesn't have to be about generating as much tyre smoke as possible around a long bend.

Agree entirely.

Nor is is about EXACTLY when to put your seatbelt on or performing pre drive checks that IMO do not seem to have advanced in line with modern technology.