The problem of young male drivers
Discussion
Combover said:
vonhosen said:
What annoys you about it ?
Why do you care if they believe that their 1.2 Corsa is faster than a 330i ?
What adverse affect does it have on you ?
Because when they tell impressionable young males, they then go out and try it and it could be me they try it on. I don't want to be involved in an accident i've caused myself, let alone an accident caused by someone who belived their 1.2 Corsa was fatser than my MX-5.Why do you care if they believe that their 1.2 Corsa is faster than a 330i ?
What adverse affect does it have on you ?
I don't know myself if a Corsa is fatser than your MX-5 or not & I don't care, it's an irrelevance unless you want to race.
Combover said:
vonhosen said:
What annoys you about it ?
Why do you care if they believe that their 1.2 Corsa is faster than a 330i ?
What adverse affect does it have on you ?
Because when they tell impressionable young males, they then go out and try it and it could be me they try it on. I don't want to be involved in an accident i've caused myself, let alone an accident caused by someone who belived their 1.2 Corsa was fatser than my MX-5.Why do you care if they believe that their 1.2 Corsa is faster than a 330i ?
What adverse affect does it have on you ?
They all think there cars are faster than mine as I wont race them, and let them overtake me at the first safe oppotunity.
Im sure they all tell each other that there crapboxes are faster than a prelude, I dont care in the slightest.
Fezzaman said:
One thing I've noticed is that as soon as they get their licences, they suddenly think they know everything about cars - honestly, these two guys tried to convince me that Audi was not part of the VW group!
On another occasion, a guy was saying how he got a lift with a mate who was driving his dad's 3.2 E320CDI... to make matters worse, another guy says no way, it's a 2l because of the '20' by following bmw nomenclature, even quoting a 745i as an example, which he believed was a 4.5, when it's a 4.4. So, does that mean a C180 has an 8l engine?!
That is one thing I noticed too. I've been into cars for aslong as I can remember. I had a knowledge of cars as a child greater than most adults. But as soon as most of my friends were about 16, they all become experts on cars all of a sudden. Nearly every fast lookng car apparently had a "turbo". Saxo VTRs had 145BHP and there were such things as BMW M3 320s.On another occasion, a guy was saying how he got a lift with a mate who was driving his dad's 3.2 E320CDI... to make matters worse, another guy says no way, it's a 2l because of the '20' by following bmw nomenclature, even quoting a 745i as an example, which he believed was a 4.5, when it's a 4.4. So, does that mean a C180 has an 8l engine?!
`Boys will be boys` I think is the statement that sums it all up.
No amount of education or training will ever change that basic fundamental of life.
We (most of us old gits) are lucky to have survived to adulthood, but I expect each of us has been in a life endangering situation through our own youthful stupidity, wether in a car or not, and we all probably know of someone who was not lucky enough to survive.
Young car drivers are doing no more than what is in their programming as a young human being and it would be very foolish of us to believe that we can do anything about it.
No amount of education or training will ever change that basic fundamental of life.
We (most of us old gits) are lucky to have survived to adulthood, but I expect each of us has been in a life endangering situation through our own youthful stupidity, wether in a car or not, and we all probably know of someone who was not lucky enough to survive.
Young car drivers are doing no more than what is in their programming as a young human being and it would be very foolish of us to believe that we can do anything about it.
crisisjez said:
`Boys will be boys` I think is the statement that sums it all up.
No amount of education or training will ever change that basic fundamental of life.
We (most of us old gits) are lucky to have survived to adulthood, but I expect each of us has been in a life endangering situation through our own youthful stupidity, wether in a car or not, and we all probably know of someone who was not lucky enough to survive.
Young car drivers are doing no more than what is in their programming as a young human being and it would be very foolish of us to believe that we can do anything about it.
I agree with everything you say there, except the very last bit.No amount of education or training will ever change that basic fundamental of life.
We (most of us old gits) are lucky to have survived to adulthood, but I expect each of us has been in a life endangering situation through our own youthful stupidity, wether in a car or not, and we all probably know of someone who was not lucky enough to survive.
Young car drivers are doing no more than what is in their programming as a young human being and it would be very foolish of us to believe that we can do anything about it.
Of course we must not expect too much, but I do think we ought to do what we can to counter the problem, and not just settle for saying that nothing can be done.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Sounds defeatist but what I mean is that even if you teach all the kids to an IAM std if its compulsory they won`t be at all motivated (as are the people who do so at the moment) therefore in all probability won`t maintain the std when driving.
For the ones that the training sticks, they probably would`nt need it in the first place.
Being young is all about knowing better.
For the ones that the training sticks, they probably would`nt need it in the first place.
Being young is all about knowing better.
Edited by crisisjez on Monday 14th April 10:59
This post will probably be slightly different to the rest of them as I'll be answering this post from three very different prospectives:
a. I am a young (19 year old) female driver and
b. I come from a background of owning both high powered and old classic cars, probably more so than most people of my age.
c. My mum is a petrolhead, I didn't learn to drive in the conventional way, took my test in my own car and never had any tuition from a professional driving instructor.
Driving Age:
I learnt to drive a car when I was 12 and thought it was extremely unfair that I couldn't drive it on road until I was 17, the cars I learnt to drive in where an Audi UrQuattro and a 1967 Alfa Spider, so both not conventional cars to start any type of driving career in. When I was 16 I took my CBT to ride a 50cc scooter, which I did for one year, in that time I learnt an immense amount about road craft and also to respect motorbikes. As a whole people pull out on you, overtake you in stupid places and IMHO riding a 50cc scooter about is more dangerous (due to other road uses not giving you any space / time / respect on the road) than driving a car.
Aged 17 I took my thoery on my 17th birthday and booked my practical that day, also did another CBT on my 17th to ride a 125cc motorbike. I took my test for my Car Licence just three weeks after my 17th in my mums car, due to mine being broken down (typical Alfa lol) and passed with flying colours!
Thereafter I will admit to not being the most "careful" of drivers, I adore the B-Roads and learning in my own time to drive them, fast! Town and motorway driving are both a chore to me, I find them both incredibly boring but the twisties I find are extremely fun, the best part driving a new road, then going again and again until you know every turn, every bump, every camber and you can drive it extremely quickly.
Would Raising the Driving Age Have Made Me a Safer Driver:
In a word, no. Like everyone I have made mistakes and done a few dodgy overtakes but you learn from that, in the 2 1/2 years I've had my licence I have had what alot of people would say are "powerful cars for my age". At the moment I don't have a powerful car but enjoy making progress in it even more so because you have to work at it. You learn from mistakes - some maybe hard ones!
Passengers - Are They an Influence:
I imagine they are to some people, if one of my mates are in the car with me, it really doesn't bother me as I don't see them as an influence to my driving, they have less experience than me (none passed their test before me etc. etc.) as far as I'm concerned I don't want comments from them. The only passenger who will influence my driving is my mum, she learnt me to drive, has more experince and gives great advice to me, if she thinks I'm taking something too fast she says, if I could maybe do something different to make better progress she says, I will be honest I've only just started listening to this but I've learnt lots from someones driving I respect.
Likewise with my dad and motorbikes I've recentely got another little 125cc sports bike (Honda NSR) and will be taking my test soon.
In those ways I've grown up, started doing track days
always with an instructor because you get so much out of it and learn so much to get faster, now I don't just want to drive fast I want to drive fast and with skill.
Considering joining the IAM to learn to hopefully be a better driver on the road.
This is all rather recent and most Mids PH'ers know me as a bit of a speed freak, must say I've calmed down a bit (perhaps not round the twisties though lol)
Passengers are an influence but can be a good one!
Boys in Cars!
This is of course about Young Male drivers and I'm going to be completely honest here, personally I don't think my reasons for going fast (a love of driving) is the same as the average young male drivers reasons.
I personally think the main motive for young male drivers driving too fast is : They want to impress.
Men on a whole (IMHO) feel they have more to "prove" somehow in most things than women, boys feel the only way to "be a man" is to try to impress, infact I'd go so far as to say, 17 year old boys are a lot more insecure than 17 year old girls.
So peer group passengers are ALOT more influential to young male drivers, driving fast and also doing silly overtakes and making mistakes.
Choice of car is a big thing to Male drivers too, power isn't the main motive moreover the car "looking powerful" hence the Chav style bodykits on regular hatchbacks, hence they need to "prove" there car can be driven fast.
a. I am a young (19 year old) female driver and
b. I come from a background of owning both high powered and old classic cars, probably more so than most people of my age.
c. My mum is a petrolhead, I didn't learn to drive in the conventional way, took my test in my own car and never had any tuition from a professional driving instructor.
Driving Age:
I learnt to drive a car when I was 12 and thought it was extremely unfair that I couldn't drive it on road until I was 17, the cars I learnt to drive in where an Audi UrQuattro and a 1967 Alfa Spider, so both not conventional cars to start any type of driving career in. When I was 16 I took my CBT to ride a 50cc scooter, which I did for one year, in that time I learnt an immense amount about road craft and also to respect motorbikes. As a whole people pull out on you, overtake you in stupid places and IMHO riding a 50cc scooter about is more dangerous (due to other road uses not giving you any space / time / respect on the road) than driving a car.
Aged 17 I took my thoery on my 17th birthday and booked my practical that day, also did another CBT on my 17th to ride a 125cc motorbike. I took my test for my Car Licence just three weeks after my 17th in my mums car, due to mine being broken down (typical Alfa lol) and passed with flying colours!
Thereafter I will admit to not being the most "careful" of drivers, I adore the B-Roads and learning in my own time to drive them, fast! Town and motorway driving are both a chore to me, I find them both incredibly boring but the twisties I find are extremely fun, the best part driving a new road, then going again and again until you know every turn, every bump, every camber and you can drive it extremely quickly.
Would Raising the Driving Age Have Made Me a Safer Driver:
In a word, no. Like everyone I have made mistakes and done a few dodgy overtakes but you learn from that, in the 2 1/2 years I've had my licence I have had what alot of people would say are "powerful cars for my age". At the moment I don't have a powerful car but enjoy making progress in it even more so because you have to work at it. You learn from mistakes - some maybe hard ones!
Passengers - Are They an Influence:
I imagine they are to some people, if one of my mates are in the car with me, it really doesn't bother me as I don't see them as an influence to my driving, they have less experience than me (none passed their test before me etc. etc.) as far as I'm concerned I don't want comments from them. The only passenger who will influence my driving is my mum, she learnt me to drive, has more experince and gives great advice to me, if she thinks I'm taking something too fast she says, if I could maybe do something different to make better progress she says, I will be honest I've only just started listening to this but I've learnt lots from someones driving I respect.
Likewise with my dad and motorbikes I've recentely got another little 125cc sports bike (Honda NSR) and will be taking my test soon.
In those ways I've grown up, started doing track days
always with an instructor because you get so much out of it and learn so much to get faster, now I don't just want to drive fast I want to drive fast and with skill.Considering joining the IAM to learn to hopefully be a better driver on the road.
This is all rather recent and most Mids PH'ers know me as a bit of a speed freak, must say I've calmed down a bit (perhaps not round the twisties though lol)
Passengers are an influence but can be a good one!
Boys in Cars!
This is of course about Young Male drivers and I'm going to be completely honest here, personally I don't think my reasons for going fast (a love of driving) is the same as the average young male drivers reasons.
I personally think the main motive for young male drivers driving too fast is : They want to impress.
Men on a whole (IMHO) feel they have more to "prove" somehow in most things than women, boys feel the only way to "be a man" is to try to impress, infact I'd go so far as to say, 17 year old boys are a lot more insecure than 17 year old girls.
So peer group passengers are ALOT more influential to young male drivers, driving fast and also doing silly overtakes and making mistakes.
Choice of car is a big thing to Male drivers too, power isn't the main motive moreover the car "looking powerful" hence the Chav style bodykits on regular hatchbacks, hence they need to "prove" there car can be driven fast.
Edited by Porscha! on Monday 14th April 11:22
What a great post Nicola. I've heard about your love of speed but had no idea what experience it was founded on. You have a great attitude and approach (I refer to the bit where you talk about driving an unknown stretch and then driving it over and over again until you know every inch of it). I really would love to passenger with you one day.
Doing the IAM course would be an interesting experience for you. I think you would absolutely love to get involved with this group - http://www.hpc.org.uk/index.html
Doing the IAM course would be an interesting experience for you. I think you would absolutely love to get involved with this group - http://www.hpc.org.uk/index.html
EmmaP said:
What a great post Nicola. I've heard about your love of speed but had no idea what experience it was founded on. You have a great attitude and approach (I refer to the bit where you talk about driving an unknown stretch and then driving it over and over again until you know every inch of it). I really would love to passenger with you one day.
Doing the IAM course would be an interesting experience for you. I think you would absolutely love to get involved with this group - http://www.hpc.org.uk/index.html
That sounds fantastic, very interesting read too. Been onto Cadence to see what you need to get into it! They are also doing a young driver day which I have registered my interest for. Doing the IAM course would be an interesting experience for you. I think you would absolutely love to get involved with this group - http://www.hpc.org.uk/index.html
Thanks!! 
I'm 41 and from 16 (moped test passed 1st time) until 25 I believed I was immortal. Even the near misses did nothing to change that. Even friends dying or being maimed (not in my presence) did nothing to stop this belief.
I think that slow cars actually encourage youngsters to drive to the limit. I progressed from MOPED to 125 to 350 to 500 cc bikes and all the time had only on/off throttle control. Same with Cars mini 850, fiat 126, fiesta 998, 16 CVH escort - all dog slow and driven balls out to extract what little power they had. It's only when you've had the MD's 325i sideways at 90 in the rain that you start to understand the need for control.
I think that slow cars actually encourage youngsters to drive to the limit. I progressed from MOPED to 125 to 350 to 500 cc bikes and all the time had only on/off throttle control. Same with Cars mini 850, fiat 126, fiesta 998, 16 CVH escort - all dog slow and driven balls out to extract what little power they had. It's only when you've had the MD's 325i sideways at 90 in the rain that you start to understand the need for control.
Porscha! said:
This post will probably be slightly different to the rest of them as I'll be answering this post from three very different prospectives:
a. I am a young (19 year old) female driver and
b. I come from a background of owning both high powered and old classic cars, probably more so than most people of my age.
c. My mum is a petrolhead, I didn't learn to drive in the conventional way, took my test in my own car and never had any tuition from a professional driving instructor.
Driving Age:
I learnt to drive a car when I was 12 and thought it was extremely unfair that I couldn't drive it on road until I was 17, the cars I learnt to drive in where an Audi UrQuattro and a 1967 Alfa Spider, so both not conventional cars to start any type of driving career in. When I was 16 I took my CBT to ride a 50cc scooter, which I did for one year, in that time I learnt an immense amount about road craft and also to respect motorbikes. As a whole people pull out on you, overtake you in stupid places and IMHO riding a 50cc scooter about is more dangerous (due to other road uses not giving you any space / time / respect on the road) than driving a car.
Aged 17 I took my thoery on my 17th birthday and booked my practical that day, also did another CBT on my 17th to ride a 125cc motorbike. I took my test for my Car Licence just three weeks after my 17th in my mums car, due to mine being broken down (typical Alfa lol) and passed with flying colours!
Thereafter I will admit to not being the most "careful" of drivers, I adore the B-Roads and learning in my own time to drive them, fast! Town and motorway driving are both a chore to me, I find them both incredibly boring but the twisties I find are extremely fun, the best part driving a new road, then going again and again until you know every turn, every bump, every camber and you can drive it extremely quickly.
Would Raising the Driving Age Have Made Me a Safer Driver:
In a word, no. Like everyone I have made mistakes and done a few dodgy overtakes but you learn from that, in the 2 1/2 years I've had my licence I have had what alot of people would say are "powerful cars for my age". At the moment I don't have a powerful car but enjoy making progress in it even more so because you have to work at it. You learn from mistakes - some maybe hard ones!
Passengers - Are They an Influence:
I imagine they are to some people, if one of my mates are in the car with me, it really doesn't bother me as I don't see them as an influence to my driving, they have less experience than me (none passed their test before me etc. etc.) as far as I'm concerned I don't want comments from them. The only passenger who will influence my driving is my mum, she learnt me to drive, has more experince and gives great advice to me, if she thinks I'm taking something too fast she says, if I could maybe do something different to make better progress she says, I will be honest I've only just started listening to this but I've learnt lots from someones driving I respect.
Likewise with my dad and motorbikes I've recentely got another little 125cc sports bike (Honda NSR) and will be taking my test soon.
In those ways I've grown up, started doing track days always with an instructor because you get so much out of it and learn so much to get faster, now I don't just want to drive fast I want to drive fast and with skill.
Considering joining the IAM to learn to hopefully be a better driver on the road.
This is all rather recent and most Mids PH'ers know me as a bit of a speed freak, must say I've calmed down a bit (perhaps not round the twisties though lol)
Passengers are an influence but can be a good one!
Boys in Cars!
This is of course about Young Male drivers and I'm going to be completely honest here, personally I don't think my reasons for going fast (a love of driving) is the same as the average young male drivers reasons.
I personally think the main motive for young male drivers driving too fast is : They want to impress.
Men on a whole (IMHO) feel they have more to "prove" somehow in most things than women, boys feel the only way to "be a man" is to try to impress, infact I'd go so far as to say, 17 year old boys are a lot more insecure than 17 year old girls.
So peer group passengers are ALOT more influential to young male drivers, driving fast and also doing silly overtakes and making mistakes.
Choice of car is a big thing to Male drivers too, power isn't the main motive moreover the car "looking powerful" hence the Chav style bodykits on regular hatchbacks, hence they need to "prove" there car can be driven fast.
Sounds quite a bit like me (only im male a. I am a young (19 year old) female driver and
b. I come from a background of owning both high powered and old classic cars, probably more so than most people of my age.
c. My mum is a petrolhead, I didn't learn to drive in the conventional way, took my test in my own car and never had any tuition from a professional driving instructor.
Driving Age:
I learnt to drive a car when I was 12 and thought it was extremely unfair that I couldn't drive it on road until I was 17, the cars I learnt to drive in where an Audi UrQuattro and a 1967 Alfa Spider, so both not conventional cars to start any type of driving career in. When I was 16 I took my CBT to ride a 50cc scooter, which I did for one year, in that time I learnt an immense amount about road craft and also to respect motorbikes. As a whole people pull out on you, overtake you in stupid places and IMHO riding a 50cc scooter about is more dangerous (due to other road uses not giving you any space / time / respect on the road) than driving a car.
Aged 17 I took my thoery on my 17th birthday and booked my practical that day, also did another CBT on my 17th to ride a 125cc motorbike. I took my test for my Car Licence just three weeks after my 17th in my mums car, due to mine being broken down (typical Alfa lol) and passed with flying colours!
Thereafter I will admit to not being the most "careful" of drivers, I adore the B-Roads and learning in my own time to drive them, fast! Town and motorway driving are both a chore to me, I find them both incredibly boring but the twisties I find are extremely fun, the best part driving a new road, then going again and again until you know every turn, every bump, every camber and you can drive it extremely quickly.
Would Raising the Driving Age Have Made Me a Safer Driver:
In a word, no. Like everyone I have made mistakes and done a few dodgy overtakes but you learn from that, in the 2 1/2 years I've had my licence I have had what alot of people would say are "powerful cars for my age". At the moment I don't have a powerful car but enjoy making progress in it even more so because you have to work at it. You learn from mistakes - some maybe hard ones!
Passengers - Are They an Influence:
I imagine they are to some people, if one of my mates are in the car with me, it really doesn't bother me as I don't see them as an influence to my driving, they have less experience than me (none passed their test before me etc. etc.) as far as I'm concerned I don't want comments from them. The only passenger who will influence my driving is my mum, she learnt me to drive, has more experince and gives great advice to me, if she thinks I'm taking something too fast she says, if I could maybe do something different to make better progress she says, I will be honest I've only just started listening to this but I've learnt lots from someones driving I respect.
Likewise with my dad and motorbikes I've recentely got another little 125cc sports bike (Honda NSR) and will be taking my test soon.
In those ways I've grown up, started doing track days
always with an instructor because you get so much out of it and learn so much to get faster, now I don't just want to drive fast I want to drive fast and with skill.Considering joining the IAM to learn to hopefully be a better driver on the road.
This is all rather recent and most Mids PH'ers know me as a bit of a speed freak, must say I've calmed down a bit (perhaps not round the twisties though lol)
Passengers are an influence but can be a good one!
Boys in Cars!
This is of course about Young Male drivers and I'm going to be completely honest here, personally I don't think my reasons for going fast (a love of driving) is the same as the average young male drivers reasons.
I personally think the main motive for young male drivers driving too fast is : They want to impress.
Men on a whole (IMHO) feel they have more to "prove" somehow in most things than women, boys feel the only way to "be a man" is to try to impress, infact I'd go so far as to say, 17 year old boys are a lot more insecure than 17 year old girls.
So peer group passengers are ALOT more influential to young male drivers, driving fast and also doing silly overtakes and making mistakes.
Choice of car is a big thing to Male drivers too, power isn't the main motive moreover the car "looking powerful" hence the Chav style bodykits on regular hatchbacks, hence they need to "prove" there car can be driven fast.
Edited by Porscha! on Monday 14th April 11:22
) 19 and already a pretty experienced driver (been driving since the age of around 9 or 10). I really enjoy driving the twisty B roads and running the same road time and time again until i know every spot on the road and know the exact line to take through every corner then building it up over time until i can absolutly fly through the road knowing that im doing it 'safely'. This i think is the difference between people who know how to drive and people who think they know. On roads that i dont know i genrally drive a lot slower than on a road that I know (though admittly still pretty fast). This is what i think seporates people like me and the person im quoting from your average 'i caaan go into dis hairpinnit even though i nevvva driven the road befuurrr at 80 mph and still keep control of the caaaaar' chav type.
I will admit that i enjoy a good burn and do drive at what others may class at dangerously high speeds through some corners but only if i know what im doing
i have had 2 crashes so far im my 2 year driving career 1 being a <1mph roll into a car infront of me when stopped in traffic and must have taken my foot off the brake when wiping the windscreen (still trying to work this one out). Second was loosing the rear on a well known corner when trying to squeeze a little too much out of it where all i did was access the road ahead, realise there was nothing coming so just threw the car into a 540 degree spin in the road (without managing to hit anything )I also agree that riding a 50cc moped for a year really gave me a good experience of 'road driving' and learning the ways of the road on something stupidly slow was good for me before jumping into a car.
I drive 2 Hondas, a 1.5Lsi 96 Civic and a 2.2 VTEC Prelude (still off the road atm :'( ) both are bone stock to look at and i despise the chavvy-body-kit-look. I always get chavs trying to drag me off the lights in both of these cars in 1.2 piles of s
te. What i usually do is to cruise alongside them or let them go infront until about 60 and then just floor it and watch them fall behind in the rear view lolEdited by Eddh on Monday 14th April 14:42
Im fairly young, 21 (almost 22), and I'm lucky enough to drive a 2000 Audi A3 1.8T. I didn't actually take my test til 19 so I haven't been driving for that long. Whilst I haven't as many miles under my belt as a lot of drivers my age, I've done a lot of driving in different conditions and areas, which has taught me a lot.
Whilst I've read through most of the posts, I may have missed some so apologies if I repeat anything.
Like most people, I've had a few near misses but one thing sticks out in my mind about young male drivers, from my experience. For the first 2 odd years I had my license, I was driving my mums 2002 1.4 Polo (automatic *shakes head*) and now I drive a car with double the power. I think there is a stigma attached to *most* NEW male drivers, who think that they have to push their cars a bit, show off etc, and whilst I have fallen into this same trip, most of my friends were MUCH more worse. I'll never remember being a passenger in my mates car (1.4 golf) the day he passed his test, he 'forgot' that there was a roundabout at the top of the sliproad off the motorway, and then round the roundabout, he 'forgot' to steer enough. Too busy trying to look cool and drive fast, I wasn't impressed, and thankfully this has made an impression on me. I was familiar with all the roads we were on, but this was one of the most uncomfortable car journeys I've ever been on. I've got similar stories about other friends in their Mercedes A Class, Golf 1.6 etc so...
...As a result, I always tried to maintain I'd never drive irresponsibily (sp?) though I've had a few silly moments. However, I think that most of these moments came in my first car, the Polo, whereas in my A3, it's almost as if I don't feel the need to 'show off' or whatever this irresponsible driving is classed as. I love driving my A3
, so whilst I hoon around sometimes I think I can say I'm rid of my silly days. I also think I get more respect in my A3, (leaving the brands alone) I think it's unfair on young drivers of cars like Polo, Corsas etc but there's not much I can do about that.
One thing I gotta say I love though, I am fairly babyfaced , so despite being 21 when people look over and see me in my A3, I'm pretty sure they wonder how a 18-19 yr old could be driving that car, but hey I don't mind that!
Unfortunately, the big problem with driving, is that, the best practise is actual experience and many drivers pass their tests with minimal levels, if any. Far too many drivers, new and more experienced, just don't concentrate fully when driving and don't use their instincts to tell them better of something.
I apologise if my post was a bit vague, but was trying to give a personal view, but hopefully its been of some use.
Whilst I've read through most of the posts, I may have missed some so apologies if I repeat anything.
Like most people, I've had a few near misses but one thing sticks out in my mind about young male drivers, from my experience. For the first 2 odd years I had my license, I was driving my mums 2002 1.4 Polo (automatic *shakes head*) and now I drive a car with double the power. I think there is a stigma attached to *most* NEW male drivers, who think that they have to push their cars a bit, show off etc, and whilst I have fallen into this same trip, most of my friends were MUCH more worse. I'll never remember being a passenger in my mates car (1.4 golf) the day he passed his test, he 'forgot' that there was a roundabout at the top of the sliproad off the motorway, and then round the roundabout, he 'forgot' to steer enough. Too busy trying to look cool and drive fast, I wasn't impressed, and thankfully this has made an impression on me. I was familiar with all the roads we were on, but this was one of the most uncomfortable car journeys I've ever been on. I've got similar stories about other friends in their Mercedes A Class, Golf 1.6 etc so...
...As a result, I always tried to maintain I'd never drive irresponsibily (sp?) though I've had a few silly moments. However, I think that most of these moments came in my first car, the Polo, whereas in my A3, it's almost as if I don't feel the need to 'show off' or whatever this irresponsible driving is classed as. I love driving my A3
, so whilst I hoon around sometimes I think I can say I'm rid of my silly days. I also think I get more respect in my A3, (leaving the brands alone) I think it's unfair on young drivers of cars like Polo, Corsas etc but there's not much I can do about that.One thing I gotta say I love though, I am fairly babyfaced , so despite being 21 when people look over and see me in my A3, I'm pretty sure they wonder how a 18-19 yr old could be driving that car, but hey I don't mind that!
Unfortunately, the big problem with driving, is that, the best practise is actual experience and many drivers pass their tests with minimal levels, if any. Far too many drivers, new and more experienced, just don't concentrate fully when driving and don't use their instincts to tell them better of something.
I apologise if my post was a bit vague, but was trying to give a personal view, but hopefully its been of some use.
You guys who are practising to drive the twisties as fast as possible, it's great that you are trying to drive as well as possible, but can I just check something without sounding too patronising?
You are thinking, aren't you, that the limiting factor on a blind bend is not how fast you can get round it if the road is clear, but how fast you can go and still be able to stop in time if there are cyclists in the middle of the road, or worse still someone coming towards you on your side of the road because they are overtaking cyclists ...... You have to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear on your own side of the road, taking into account the amount of grip being used up by cornering. And if the road is slightly narrow, you have to be able to stop in less than half the distance you can see to be clear.
That's one of the great things about track days - no bad surprises just round the bend.
You are thinking, aren't you, that the limiting factor on a blind bend is not how fast you can get round it if the road is clear, but how fast you can go and still be able to stop in time if there are cyclists in the middle of the road, or worse still someone coming towards you on your side of the road because they are overtaking cyclists ...... You have to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear on your own side of the road, taking into account the amount of grip being used up by cornering. And if the road is slightly narrow, you have to be able to stop in less than half the distance you can see to be clear.
That's one of the great things about track days - no bad surprises just round the bend.
waremark said:
You guys who are practising to drive the twisties as fast as possible, it's great that you are trying to drive as well as possible, but can I just check something without sounding too patronising?
You are thinking, aren't you, that the limiting factor on a blind bend is not how fast you can get round it if the road is clear, but how fast you can go and still be able to stop in time if there are cyclists in the middle of the road, or worse still someone coming towards you on your side of the road because they are overtaking cyclists ...... You have to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear on your own side of the road, taking into account the amount of grip being used up by cornering. And if the road is slightly narrow, you have to be able to stop in less than half the distance you can see to be clear.
That's one of the great things about track days - no bad surprises just round the bend.
Ya know having read the threads in AD the past few months especially, thats the main thing always at the forefront of my mind when i hit my favourite bit of road (a set of 10 mile twisties on the way to/from work), takes the edge off a little but on occasions it HAS helped.You are thinking, aren't you, that the limiting factor on a blind bend is not how fast you can get round it if the road is clear, but how fast you can go and still be able to stop in time if there are cyclists in the middle of the road, or worse still someone coming towards you on your side of the road because they are overtaking cyclists ...... You have to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear on your own side of the road, taking into account the amount of grip being used up by cornering. And if the road is slightly narrow, you have to be able to stop in less than half the distance you can see to be clear.
That's one of the great things about track days - no bad surprises just round the bend.
waremark said:
You guys who are practising to drive the twisties as fast as possible, it's great that you are trying to drive as well as possible, but can I just check something without sounding too patronising?
You are thinking, aren't you, that the limiting factor on a blind bend is not how fast you can get round it if the road is clear, but how fast you can go and still be able to stop in time if there are cyclists in the middle of the road, or worse still someone coming towards you on your side of the road because they are overtaking cyclists ...... You have to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear on your own side of the road, taking into account the amount of grip being used up by cornering. And if the road is slightly narrow, you have to be able to stop in less than half the distance you can see to be clear.
That's one of the great things about track days - no bad surprises just round the bend.
IMO your only truely in control of the car if:You are thinking, aren't you, that the limiting factor on a blind bend is not how fast you can get round it if the road is clear, but how fast you can go and still be able to stop in time if there are cyclists in the middle of the road, or worse still someone coming towards you on your side of the road because they are overtaking cyclists ...... You have to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear on your own side of the road, taking into account the amount of grip being used up by cornering. And if the road is slightly narrow, you have to be able to stop in less than half the distance you can see to be clear.
That's one of the great things about track days - no bad surprises just round the bend.
a) If you are cutting a corner you can get back onto your side of the road safely if there is another car coming the other way.
b) You can take all the corners staying between the white line of the cycle lane (if there is one) and the middle white line at speed if need be.
You have to be in control of the car at all times otherwise there really isnt any skill in it its just more luck that you get through the corner ok, even if you are sideways in a FWD car with full oposite lock if your in control it takes skill. Anyone can throw a car into a tight corner at 90mph and no know what they are doing and still get out of it ok if they are lucky enough (trust me i have seen people do it and its bloody scary especially when you know what they should have done and what they actually did!)
If a cyclist is in the middle of the road round a blind bend then its their own fault, equally if another car is in the middle of the road overtaking a cyclist going into a blind corner, its no different from overtaking a car going into a blind corner and who does that?
Eddh said:
If a cyclist is in the middle of the road round a blind bend then its their own fault, equally if another car is in the middle of the road overtaking a cyclist going into a blind corner, its no different from overtaking a car going into a blind corner and who does that?
It doesnt really matter who's fault it is (although I think your wrong) because you should be expecting it and thus able to deal with it if it happens.Expect the worst at all times.
snotrag said:
Eddh said:
If a cyclist is in the middle of the road round a blind bend then its their own fault, equally if another car is in the middle of the road overtaking a cyclist going into a blind corner, its no different from overtaking a car going into a blind corner and who does that?
It doesnt really matter who's fault it is (although I think your wrong) because you should be expecting it and thus able to deal with it if it happens.Expect the worst at all times.
The worst is when they ride side by side and dont move over for cars when they come up behind them
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