Fog Lights - What ARE the correct rules?
Discussion
Gene Vincent said:
Foglights are below the 24" minimum driving light height and should be directed slightly below their 0 degree horizon and as such foglights should not dazzle anyone. Perhaps your 'argument' is more with the 'construction' rather than the 'use'. Any lamp that is badly adjusted is cause for concern. I've only occasionally over a long driving career been dazzled by foglights. I am a 100x more often dazzled by drivers leaving main beams on too long or not dipping them at all.
Rear fogs are usually inattention and it's that 'calling card' thing once again, they are annoying but a little full beam for a few seconds usually wakes them up.
If only all lifes little annoyances were so easily dispensed with.
If one looks at the lighting regs fog lights should be angled downwards at a greater angle than dipped headlights.Rear fogs are usually inattention and it's that 'calling card' thing once again, they are annoying but a little full beam for a few seconds usually wakes them up.
If only all lifes little annoyances were so easily dispensed with.
Couple that with the low mounting position and a simple bit of geometry will show that fog lights provide so little forwards and sideways illumination that their use in other than extremely poor visibility is of little merit.
If correctly aligned they are only of use where visibility is such that you should be down at less than 15mph, experiments have shown this.
Anyone who says they find them of benefit when driving at higher speeds in the country or motorways either have badly and possibly illegally aligned lights or are kidding themselves and should be treated as the numpties they are.
F i F said:
If one looks at the lighting regs fog lights should be angled downwards at a greater angle than dipped headlights.
Couple that with the low mounting position and a simple bit of geometry will show that fog lights provide so little forwards and sideways illumination that their use in other than extremely poor visibility is of little merit.
If correctly aligned they are only of use where visibility is such that you should be down at less than 15mph, experiments have shown this.
Anyone who says they find them of benefit when driving at higher speeds in the country or motorways either have badly and possibly illegally aligned lights or are kidding themselves and should be treated as the numpties they are.
Agreed, front fog lights are only useful in dense fog at low speeds on single carriageway roads.Couple that with the low mounting position and a simple bit of geometry will show that fog lights provide so little forwards and sideways illumination that their use in other than extremely poor visibility is of little merit.
If correctly aligned they are only of use where visibility is such that you should be down at less than 15mph, experiments have shown this.
Anyone who says they find them of benefit when driving at higher speeds in the country or motorways either have badly and possibly illegally aligned lights or are kidding themselves and should be treated as the numpties they are.
Rear fog lights are useful in all types of fog.
F i F said:
Gene Vincent said:
Foglights are below the 24" minimum driving light height and should be directed slightly below their 0 degree horizon and as such foglights should not dazzle anyone. Perhaps your 'argument' is more with the 'construction' rather than the 'use'. Any lamp that is badly adjusted is cause for concern. I've only occasionally over a long driving career been dazzled by foglights. I am a 100x more often dazzled by drivers leaving main beams on too long or not dipping them at all.
Rear fogs are usually inattention and it's that 'calling card' thing once again, they are annoying but a little full beam for a few seconds usually wakes them up.
If only all lifes little annoyances were so easily dispensed with.
If one looks at the lighting regs fog lights should be angled downwards at a greater angle than dipped headlights.Rear fogs are usually inattention and it's that 'calling card' thing once again, they are annoying but a little full beam for a few seconds usually wakes them up.
If only all lifes little annoyances were so easily dispensed with.
Couple that with the low mounting position and a simple bit of geometry will show that fog lights provide so little forwards and sideways illumination that their use in other than extremely poor visibility is of little merit.
If correctly aligned they are only of use where visibility is such that you should be down at less than 15mph, experiments have shown this.
Anyone who says they find them of benefit when driving at higher speeds in the country or motorways either have badly and possibly illegally aligned lights or are kidding themselves and should be treated as the numpties they are.
Gene Vincent said:
F i F said:
Gene Vincent said:
Foglights are below the 24" minimum driving light height and should be directed slightly below their 0 degree horizon and as such foglights should not dazzle anyone. Perhaps your 'argument' is more with the 'construction' rather than the 'use'. Any lamp that is badly adjusted is cause for concern. I've only occasionally over a long driving career been dazzled by foglights. I am a 100x more often dazzled by drivers leaving main beams on too long or not dipping them at all.
Rear fogs are usually inattention and it's that 'calling card' thing once again, they are annoying but a little full beam for a few seconds usually wakes them up.
If only all lifes little annoyances were so easily dispensed with.
If one looks at the lighting regs fog lights should be angled downwards at a greater angle than dipped headlights.Rear fogs are usually inattention and it's that 'calling card' thing once again, they are annoying but a little full beam for a few seconds usually wakes them up.
If only all lifes little annoyances were so easily dispensed with.
Couple that with the low mounting position and a simple bit of geometry will show that fog lights provide so little forwards and sideways illumination that their use in other than extremely poor visibility is of little merit.
If correctly aligned they are only of use where visibility is such that you should be down at less than 15mph, experiments have shown this.
Anyone who says they find them of benefit when driving at higher speeds in the country or motorways either have badly and possibly illegally aligned lights or are kidding themselves and should be treated as the numpties they are.
I know perfectly well the way front fog lights work and their beam pattern. If the lights are correctly aligned the extra illumination they provide is so close to the vehicle as to be of little use except at low speeds, such as in the only valid example you can come up with which is avoiding a pothole on the edge of the surfaced area when turning at a junction. This use is increasingly seen when automated as cornering lights or by use of adjustable beam HID lamps, eg Skoda AFS II system.
Therefore I maintain my stance that anyone who uses front fogs at high speed in the country or on the motorway either have badly and possibly illegally aligned lights or is a numpty. If somebody needs extra illumination in the areas that front foglights illuminate when they are driving at high speed they badly need to lift their vision.
Driving fast is not a full time matter, one has to slow down and when one does then the added illumination as you dip your eyes to the front of the car to avoid being dazzled then the additional light is of benefit again. I'm sorry but I can't help but think that your stance is just a bit of bluster. You might as well rail against main beams because some people don't dip them! Get off the bandwagon and think about their real uses and value rather than being so virulent against something that for the majority is a good thing.
goldblum said:
Gene Vincent said:
Get off the bandwagon and think about their real uses and value rather than being so virulent against something that for the majority is a good thing.
Lol.Y'know it's really easy for someone to lose credibility in a split second on this forum. 
I happened to be driving some dark lanes last night on dadtaxi duty.
The lights on my Saab are simply fantastic and of course it has front fog lights. I tried them with dipped beam on. No difference. Totally ineffective and added nothing whatsoever to what I could see along kerb or hedge lines or in front that wasn't already lit by the headlights.
If I switched to main beams that yes, I could see the illumination pattern, but it served no purpose if I was using main beam. If I was driving slowly the main beam wouldn't give me the close at hand illumination I was looking for.
It was always my understanding that fog lights were positioned and provided simply for use during fog where the reflected glare of headlamps could dazzle a driver. Fog lamps being low illuminated below the fog and made driving safer. Not sure my fog lights would be any better than some tea lights in jam jars!
The lights on my Saab are simply fantastic and of course it has front fog lights. I tried them with dipped beam on. No difference. Totally ineffective and added nothing whatsoever to what I could see along kerb or hedge lines or in front that wasn't already lit by the headlights.
If I switched to main beams that yes, I could see the illumination pattern, but it served no purpose if I was using main beam. If I was driving slowly the main beam wouldn't give me the close at hand illumination I was looking for.
It was always my understanding that fog lights were positioned and provided simply for use during fog where the reflected glare of headlamps could dazzle a driver. Fog lamps being low illuminated below the fog and made driving safer. Not sure my fog lights would be any better than some tea lights in jam jars!
Gene Vincent said:
Get off the bandwagon and think about their real uses and value rather than being so virulent against something that for the majority is a good thing.
Completely agreedThis thread is just showing far too many people on this forum to be grumpy, aging, moaning, old busy-bodies, just looking for something to complain about.
Honestly if you really do have such a major issue with foglights, then go find a mirror. take a good long look at yourself, and try and come to the realisation that you have managed to turn yourself into the old saddo you always said you would never be.
I don't like fogs being left on, but I also don't like DRLs (especially of the Citroen variety), xenon headlights, bonnet bras, multiplas or the French. you don't see me whinging on like an old fart for days at a time though.
^^^ a voice of sanity at last.
It's a pity that 'tolerance' in a driver hasn't taken on the same status as 'I'm always learning' it is at least as important and may be more so after the first few years of driving. A tolerant driver is already a good driver and intolerance leads to rash behaviour born of self-righteousness.
It's a pity that 'tolerance' in a driver hasn't taken on the same status as 'I'm always learning' it is at least as important and may be more so after the first few years of driving. A tolerant driver is already a good driver and intolerance leads to rash behaviour born of self-righteousness.
Calmness, immunity to frustration and a bit of 'oh well' [if you see what I mean] is the only place to be as far as a mindset for driving is concerned. Pent-up anger, impatience and ranting is confirmation of that being a very very bad driver. All the self-deprecating 'I learn all the time' platitudes are worth nothing in drivers with the character fault of intolerance.
I completely agree. But surely you have to understand that tolerance isn't required unless there's something you need to be tolerant of and that (out of the car, at least) having a moan about such annoyances after the fact isn't really the end of the world is it? 
Edited by masermartin on Thursday 8th September 19:18
Gene Vincent said:
Rear fogs are usually inattention and it's that 'calling card' thing once again, they are annoying but a little full beam for a few seconds usually wakes them up.
Therefore quite amusing to read all the later pontification about tolerance and thinking. Seems to be just empty words.Oh well, never mind.
There are little annoyances to be found almost anywhere, it is ones reaction to them that matters. Some people are quick to rile or become frustrated at such annoyances. I've been in cars where the driver with a car in front with rear fogs glaring at them react in frustration and repeatedly flash and curse and get into a bit of a fizz. Their driving, up to that point, had been unremarkable but after this display of frustration their driving standard dropped markedly for a few miles until they calmed down internally.
I have maintained and strengthened by belief for many years now that the main cause of bad driving is simply, at root, frustration. Needless restriction of the roads, pointless speed limits and unsequenced traffic lights causes more danger to other road users than any other I can think of overall.
Some cannot cope with annoyances very well at all. We all unknowingly leave our 'calling cards' revealing grievances and our frustrations littered everywhere for those who can read them to note and file away.
I have maintained and strengthened by belief for many years now that the main cause of bad driving is simply, at root, frustration. Needless restriction of the roads, pointless speed limits and unsequenced traffic lights causes more danger to other road users than any other I can think of overall.
Some cannot cope with annoyances very well at all. We all unknowingly leave our 'calling cards' revealing grievances and our frustrations littered everywhere for those who can read them to note and file away.
Gene Vincent said:
There are little annoyances to be found almost anywhere, it is ones reaction to them that matters. Some people are quick to rile or become frustrated at such annoyances. I've been in cars where the driver with a car in front with rear fogs glaring at them react in frustration and repeatedly flash and curse and get into a bit of a fizz. Their driving, up to that point, had been unremarkable but after this display of frustration their driving standard dropped markedly for a few miles until they calmed down internally.
I have maintained and strengthened by belief for many years now that the main cause of bad driving is simply, at root, frustration. Needless restriction of the roads, pointless speed limits and unsequenced traffic lights causes more danger to other road users than any other I can think of overall.
Some cannot cope with annoyances very well at all. We all unknowingly leave our 'calling cards' revealing grievances and our frustrations littered everywhere for those who can read them to note and file away.
You know generally I agree with probably most of that, almost every word.I have maintained and strengthened by belief for many years now that the main cause of bad driving is simply, at root, frustration. Needless restriction of the roads, pointless speed limits and unsequenced traffic lights causes more danger to other road users than any other I can think of overall.
Some cannot cope with annoyances very well at all. We all unknowingly leave our 'calling cards' revealing grievances and our frustrations littered everywhere for those who can read them to note and file away.
Many passengers comment that I just don't let anything rile me, just seem to deal with whatever and get on with it, preferably by having noticed the marker, anticpated something and made a plan. Said passenger might be spitting feathers and advising flashing or hooting at whoever and seem frustrated by my "life's too short" approach.
To confess I do have one thing that causes a wince, but even so never do anything about it, is when one has ceded priority to someone at night and they say thanks by giving a full in the face main beam flash. Just seems to me like the automotive equivalent of holding a door for someone and as thanks they spit on your jacket. If that's the only thing that exercises my calmness (if that is a word) then reckon that's not so bad.
Back on topic, if somebody has fog lights on, and IF they are uncomfortably dazzling, which is fairly rare ime, then why flash and make two of us that can't see properly. Life's too short, but hey everyone's different.
I too pull over and switch to sides alone for a while and only put them back on as he gets close, on the reverse I too switch mine off as a thankyou, flashing is a thankyou... but a dazzling one and is avoided by the thinking driver. Your calmness behind the serves you and other road users well and I wish there were a greater number of such sanguine characters behind the wheel. Furious driving, whether in speed or temper, is is killer.
If only cameras could detect furious driving, rather than just speeding per se, they would be welcomed everywhere.
If only cameras could detect furious driving, rather than just speeding per se, they would be welcomed everywhere.
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