Giving way to buses

Author
Discussion

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Thursday 14th April 2011
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R12HCO said:
...no room to pull over in a safe manor...
Shirley the side of the road would've been fine.


boxedin

Sorry, drive safe smile

Hackney

6,811 posts

207 months

Thursday 14th April 2011
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Vipers said:
Given that you have so many bus lanes in London, why on earth do bus's need to indicate to pull out, and why does it hold up other traffic, you can't use the bus lane anyway?

Guess some bus drivers are arrogant, but there are so many other road users with the same attitude, dare I say car drivers?




smile
You'd be amazed how many bus stops are not in bus lanes.
You'd also be amazed at how often a bus stop is in a damned awkward place.

Typical example is here:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...

Just back from the bus stop is a crossroads, routinely blocked by (bendy) buses stopped at the stop. Ahead 30m there's a bus lane.

And another thing. While the bendy bus has a sign on the back warning that the bus is 18m long, I think this should also be positioned on the windscreen. Facing inwards. As the light was amber when the cab went through the rest of the bus is now blocking the damn junction!!!



Vipers

32,799 posts

227 months

Thursday 14th April 2011
quotequote all
Hackney said:
Vipers said:
Given that you have so many bus lanes in London, why on earth do bus's need to indicate to pull out, and why does it hold up other traffic, you can't use the bus lane anyway?

Guess some bus drivers are arrogant, but there are so many other road users with the same attitude, dare I say car drivers?




smile
You'd be amazed how many bus stops are not in bus lanes.
You'd also be amazed at how often a bus stop is in a damned awkward place.


Typical example is here:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...

Just back from the bus stop is a crossroads, routinely blocked by (bendy) buses stopped at the stop. Ahead 30m there's a bus lane.

And another thing. While the bendy bus has a sign on the back warning that the bus is 18m long, I think this should also be positioned on the windscreen. Facing inwards. As the light was amber when the cab went through the rest of the bus is now blocking the damn junction!!!
I know exactly what you mean, in town here just past a MINI ROUNABOUT as you pass the hospital, there is a bus stop opposite each other, when they pull up, the arse end is about a metre off the roundabout, planning my arse.

Oh and you mentioned bendy bus's, the planners here made layby's for bus's, good idea, then they bus company bought bendy bus's, now excuse me Mr Town Planner, they are a tad longer than the usual bus, and thus a tad longer then the lay by you put in for a bus.............. result, they stick out on the road whilst they stop. Doh....





smile


Edited by Vipers on Thursday 14th April 12:22

Vipers

32,799 posts

227 months

Thursday 14th April 2011
quotequote all
Hackney said:
Now I am confused, looked at link, turned to the right and moved down to the traffic lights, on the road markings when crossing from right to left, it says LOOK LEFT, but looking at the bus stop to the left, (Opposite the bus in the pic), looks like the bus will be coming FROM THE RIGHT?

So look left, ZAP.

What do you think?

smile

mrtwisty

3,057 posts

164 months

Thursday 14th April 2011
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The bus drivers round my way are mostly pretty good. I very often get a single flash of the hazards as a thank you for letting them out.
Maybe it's just that us midland/northern folk are a more chilled out and considerate bunch than our teeth gnashing southern counterparts? ;-)

RevoHJC

97 posts

170 months

Thursday 14th April 2011
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I never let them out. Slow bds just get in the way.

Vipers

32,799 posts

227 months

Friday 15th April 2011
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On the subject of giving way to bus's and highway code etc, reading the local rag last night, they carried out a survey on drivers view of the HC.

A woman driver said "I don't bother, it's out of date anyway" or words to that effect...............................

And we wonder why we have such aholes on our roads these days without a care in the world, and absolutely no idea of indicating, lane disciline etc.




smile

HGV Driver 18 ye

1 posts

110 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
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OK lets put this one to sleep once and for all, the highway code is divided into 2 parts, advisory and lawfully, things that are law will say MUST OR MUST NOT, IN BOLD, failure to adhere will result in points/a fine or both,all other stuff is advisory like buses pulling out from what is a PARKED POSTION, you do not have to give way as they do not have right of way when pulling away from a parked position, if you have started the passing manouvere they by law MUST let you complete before moving off, I have had this argument with several people and to finally put a nail in this coffin I actually went into a police station. And asked who they would nick in the event of a RTC on this occasion, I was to!d by 2 diff police stations, and a trafficer while chatting at one of the services,that they would nick the bus driver from anything to driving without due care and attention, to, causing death by dangerous driving if someone died as a result, also unless directed by a traffic warden, police or some official body, you must give way to traffic from The right, and since the bus is Parked and you are coming from the drivers right, a passing vehicle always has right of way from a parked one, the only exception is if there is a single carriageway, there is no off road bus stop, and you are waiting behind the bus because there is oncoming traffic.


Psycho Warren

3,087 posts

112 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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Its a vicious cycle with buses sadly. Too many people are selfish drivers that they don't let anyone out and cut up buses to get ahead as they don't want to be held up at 20-25mph that the buses seem to do these days.

As a result a lot of bus drivers now indicate and swerve so cars dont have a choice but get out the way. Or dont pull into the busstop fully thus holding all the traffic up.

So some people then get pissed off at buses and wont give them any slack any more.

and the situation gets worse.

Around my way there is a dual carriageway with 2 main lanes and a turn right lane. The turn right lane is a bus route and for the last 100 yards is shut off from the main dual carriage way by hatch markings. There is a bus stop 100 yards from the start of the filter right lane. often its hard for the buses (but not impossible) to move from the bus stop to lane 2 and hence into the right turn lane.

So a lot of the buses will shoot down the road into lane 2 then cut people up in the turn right lane by barging over the cross hatchings right by the stop line of the traffic lights!!

bullying your way in at the lights IMO is really pushing the boundarys of what constitutes "necessary and safe to do so" and IMO should consitute inconsiderate driving.

Can see there being an accident there soon and the hatchings being redone with a solid white line.

All because of driver selfishness. madness really.

Nigel Worc's

8,121 posts

187 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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wildoliver said:
Speaking as the driver of one, it's amazing how many drivers of cars will go out of their way to make your life harder than it needs to be. Trying to pull out of a bus stop they will do anything but let you out, seriously a quick flash of the lights and a bus will be out without you even having to slow down much, generally will thank you (as they will be thankful) and will probably pull back off the road at the next stop anyway leaving you back behind the same car you were behind anyway losing nothing and gaining a little karma.
The issue around here is they've removed all your laybys, so you stop in the middle of the road, and hold everyone up for as long as it takes you to load/offload/scratch your balls/whatever.

They even took to putting a pedestrian island in the middle of the road alongside the bus at one stop, complete with keep left arrows, because people were daring to overtake stationary buses ........... they have now been made to move that.

They also like to put bus stops opposite each other.

All this has been done on purpose, this means buses tend to get on motorists tits, and its confrontation all round. !

You can imagine the affect on congestion this has.

Jon1967x

7,177 posts

123 months

Monday 26th January 2015
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HGV Driver 18 ye said:
OK lets put this one to sleep once and for all...
For a thread that's not had a single post in nearly 4 years its hardly crying out to be put to sleep.. its more a case of waking it up!

You're 20m behind the bus when he sticks his indicator on and starts to move.. or you're 10m behind.. or you're committed to the overtake because you are along side. All would be seen and treated differently in my opinion. It would also depend on whether the bus is in a pull in or just stopped on the road.

I'm sure the police appreciated you going in to 2 different stations to ask the question.



Edited by Jon1967x on Monday 26th January 10:25

onyx39

11,109 posts

149 months

Wednesday 28th January 2015
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I think a lot of bus drivers will pull out "because they can" In the same way as many people in uniforms (not accusing the Emergency services etc before I get slated).
My first instance of "Road Rage" came about 15 years ago, with a bus. I was passing him, I was in lane 1 of a dual carriageway, there was nothing in front or behind me for a good 100 metres, as I got almost alongside him, he indicated, and just pulled out, forcing me into lane 2.
Absolutely no reason for him to not wait for a half a second. He pulled out because he could, a view that I am sure many of his "colleagues" take.

7mike

3,005 posts

192 months

Wednesday 28th January 2015
quotequote all
onyx39 said:
I think a lot of bus drivers will pull out "because they can" In the same way as many people in uniforms (not accusing the Emergency services etc before I get slated).
My first instance of "Road Rage" came about 15 years ago, with a bus. I was passing him, I was in lane 1 of a dual carriageway, there was nothing in front or behind me for a good 100 metres, as I got almost alongside him, he indicated, and just pulled out, forcing me into lane 2.
Absolutely no reason for him to not wait for a half a second. He pulled out because he could, a view that I am sure many of his "colleagues" take.
The first collision I was ever involved in (Reading just before GW1 so I was a bit too busy to make a fuss with the insurance) was with a car whose driver decided a lane change to his right was perfectly acceptable without looking. Someone in a car pulled out on me last week while I was overtaking, but now have got really good at spotting them in time!
They pulled out because ? A view that I am sure many of their fellow "car drivers" take wink

titian

55 posts

118 months

Thursday 29th January 2015
quotequote all
onyx39 said:
I think a lot of bus drivers will pull out "because they can" In the same way as many people in uniforms (not accusing the Emergency services etc before I get slated).
My first instance of "Road Rage" came about 15 years ago, with a bus. I was passing him, I was in lane 1 of a dual carriageway, there was nothing in front or behind me for a good 100 metres, as I got almost alongside him, he indicated, and just pulled out, forcing me into lane 2.
Absolutely no reason for him to not wait for a half a second. He pulled out because he could, a view that I am sure many of his "colleagues" take.
Given that the dual carrageway was clear behind for 100 metres, "reading" the road on your approach to the bus, was it not reasonable to modify your position to lane 2 in order to allow the bus to pull out if he chose to? Reading the mind of the bus driver I suggest that he had checked his mirrors and had seen that yours was the only approaching vehicle and lane 2 was clear for you to move into.
A similar situation to approaching a joining ramp onto a motorway where, if safe and so as not to come into conflict with other road users, you would choose to move into lane 2 so as to allow any joining drivers a clear run into lane 1. The onus is on you to do the helpful thing, we share the roads, why not if possible help the other guy, by your observations and forward planning where in the end everybody benefits.

R_U_LOCAL

2,676 posts

207 months

Thursday 29th January 2015
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One for the observation link thread I think:

"Moving buses stop, stopped buses move off".

On a dual carriageway I would always take lane 2 if its clear when I see a bus stopped. Not saying the bus driver wasn't careless in his actions, but with a bit of experience, this is one of those situations which is easily avoided.

Like any profession, there are some excellent bus drivers and some utter bellends and all levels of driver in between these two extremes. I should know - I regulate taxi drivers for a living.

Always expect the worst and acknowledge the good ones when you see them.

Lozw86

871 posts

131 months

Friday 20th February 2015
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Irrespective of the high way code, I don't want to give way to or be stuck behind a slow moving vehicle that stops every 200 yards. Most of the passengers are travelling on free bus passes, they can wait to pull out into a gap like the rest of us do

SK425

1,034 posts

148 months

Friday 20th February 2015
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titian said:
The onus is on you to do the helpful thing, we share the roads, why not if possible help the other guy, by your observations and forward planning where in the end everybody benefits.
Not sure that's quite right. Nothing wrong with helping people out, but the onus is on the driver looking to move off from stationary or looking to join from a slip road to give way to established traffic. If the established driver can't or doesn't move helpfully out of the way, you've no business barging them out of the way.

titian

55 posts

118 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
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You miss the point "SK245" - the road behind is clear, you have two lanes in the direction of travel therefore THE ONUS IS ON YOU to observe, anticipate and plan. You observe that the road behind in clear, you anticipate that the bus will want to pull out and you plan to let him do just that by modifying your position so as to be travelling in lane 2 - simples!

For the bloody minded drivers, what the hell, I'll stay where I am and let the bus wait, or maybe I'm too busy with my mobile to have even recognised the situation developing ahead. (Light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance).

SK425

1,034 posts

148 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
titian said:
You miss the point "SK245" - the road behind is clear, you have two lanes in the direction of travel therefore THE ONUS IS ON YOU to observe, anticipate and plan. You observe that the road behind in clear, you anticipate that the bus will want to pull out and you plan to let him do just that by modifying your position so as to be travelling in lane 2 - simples!
Yes, that's fine. I'd hope that's what anyone would do, but it's the emphasis I'm not sure I agree with. As I understand the word, the onus in that situation is absolutely on the bus driver to wait until it's clear to move off. It would be a shame if the established driver didn't take the opportunity to help the bus driver out, but it would be a far worse failing if the bus driver pulled out regardless. While the bus driver may hope for the help, they certainly may not presume it.

In a different but comparable scenario of traffic joining from a slip road and with established traffic in lanes 1 and 2, my perception is that there is a bit too much of joining drivers presuming that established traffic will get out of their way and of lane 1 drivers moving to lane 2 to help out the joiner without care for what's behind in lane 2. As I say, different to your scenario, but the general misunderstanding in this area seems widespread enough that I think it is valuable to emphasise that the non-priority driver's responsibility to give way absolutely outweighs the niceties of helping other drivers out, important though that is.

titian

55 posts

118 months

Tuesday 24th February 2015
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When joining a motorway you must give way to the traffic already on the motorway. That is usually accomplished by early observation of the weight of traffic travelling in the direction that you intend to take. You begin to collect information as, e.g. you drive over the motorway bridge before joining your slip road. Approaching the slip road you decide which lane to take, your choice will likely be influenced by the density of traffic already on the slip road, their speed and likelihood of them slowing or accelerating in response to the density of traffic already on the motorway and your ability to see through your mirrors and over your right shoulder what’s happening in lanes 1 and 2 of the motorway.

I prefer to accelerate to 60mph or above as I am then likely to be able to move away from those in lane 1 on the main carriageway with some 10mph of further acceleration available. To achieve my preferred joining speed I may have to hang back on the slip road to allow traffic ahead to join at their own pace and create more space for me to move into, however, if it is impossible to join the main carriageway I have the space and time to slow and even stop (though I have never yet been faced with that choice and it really is the last thing that I would want to do), then choose a suitable gap to quickly accelerate into.

It’s easier to lose speed quickly than it is to gain speed quickly in the average vehicle and that’s why my initial aim is to join the main carriageway at a speed that will allow me to drive away from the occupants of lane one, if that doesn’t happen I can slow to a speed to tuck in behind the traffic.

Be aware of following traffic on the slip road, the one who is determined to get ahead of you, either nearside or offside, just back off and let him go! Remember also that the two joining lanes often merge into one as they meet the main carriageway; if your approach is in the offside lane be prepared to make room for an “undertaker” getting ahead of you in the nearside lane.

You are correct "SK245", traffic on the main carriageway has priority over those joining the motorway and they are not obliged to make space for the joiners. Different motorways, different parts of the country, different times of day etc. etc, whilst the rules are the same the practicalities are often different as a result of the local situation. I will always observe and anticipate what is likely to be the situation when I am approaching the “on” ramp of a motorway. If my approach is blind until I am actually running alongside the joining traffic, I will then, (weight of traffic permitting), move into lane 2 or even lane 3 if I can see lots of joining traffic. The situation usually resolves itself quickly and I can return to 70mph in the most appropriate lane.

Without using the word “onus” again, if you call yourself an advanced driver, after considering your own safety first, (you must never sacrifice your own safety for any other consideration), you may well then ask how can I help other road users by applying my road sense? Motorway driving is just one example of many.