Someone turning right into a layby while you're overtaking

Someone turning right into a layby while you're overtaking

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Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Wednesday 29th August 2012
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pirofreak said:
Also, the lay-by is not considered a road junction and it is not marked as such.
People can turn into it whether it's marked as a road junction or not, therefore you don't overtake past it.

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Wednesday 29th August 2012
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xr287 said:
If thats the scene of the crash I am amazed that 4/5 died. It's not much of a drop to the water. So either he hit them very very hard and/or they were in a not particularly safe car or was a serious case of bad luck involved.
I know it's the Daily Wail but look at the shoreline pictures and think again about the drop. There is every chance that the people carrier rolled before plunging under the water. You try being upside down in a fully submerged vehicle. I have where only half of the car was below the waterline. The sudden darkness and disorientation is pretty alarming I can tell you.


trashbat

6,005 posts

152 months

Thursday 30th August 2012
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This very situation is described and illustrated in Roadcraft, by the way. I was reading through it the other day before I saw the case in question.

Nigel_O

2,859 posts

218 months

Thursday 30th August 2012
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Driver has been given a four-year custodial sentence

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-19421...

RegMolehusband

3,959 posts

256 months

Thursday 30th August 2012
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If you look at the Google Streetview view, it wasn't a great place to overtake with a right hand bend coming up though he would see the roofs of cars coming over the resevoir wall.

However if only the 40mph old biddy had looked in her mirror before turning right then everybody would have happily gone on their way.

Here's another thought, if a motorcyclist had slammed into the side of her and died as a result of her turning right without a mirror check, who would have been the guilty party?



Edited by RegMolehusband on Thursday 30th August 20:56

Fatman2

1,464 posts

168 months

Thursday 30th August 2012
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Trouble is we're all guessing what actually happened. Of course the guy is going to say she made a sudden turn.

As I mentioned in another thread, my wife is from there so have visited family/friends many times. Let me tell you that it's not a place where you would make a sudden turn to park unless you had a death wish. Get it even slightly wrong and you're over the edge (I think the photos show that clearly enough).

I think there's perhaps an element of poor driving on her part but I think it's more likely that he would exaggerate the story to take the heat of his poor driving. The assumption is that she didn't check her mirror, which may be the case, but maybe she did a split second before he floored it and started the overtake?

Ultimately it would have taken another few seconds to wait till he had passed the lay-by before making a completely valid overtake but sadly there are a lot of drivers, just like the chap here, pulling the same manoeuvers daily.

New POD

3,851 posts

149 months

Thursday 30th August 2012
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Some years ago I was following behind a car that was braking and moving to the left. I choose to overtake it, as it turned right into a staff car park. Luckily the only injury was whiplash from the impact of my front left wing removing the right front headlight from behind (so fraudulent). My car was a write off due to the suspension damage on hitting the kurb, with both wheels locked.

What I learnt was. Always assume that the person behind does not have a clue you are there, and if they do, assume they don't think you are going to overtake. I often use my horn, before I overtake.

DocSteve

718 posts

221 months

Friday 31st August 2012
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New POD said:
Some years ago I was following behind a car that was braking and moving to the left. I choose to overtake it, as it turned right into a staff car park. Luckily the only injury was whiplash from the impact of my front left wing removing the right front headlight from behind (so fraudulent). My car was a write off due to the suspension damage on hitting the kurb, with both wheels locked.

What I learnt was. Always assume that the person behind does not have a clue you are there, and if they do, assume they don't think you are going to overtake. I often use my horn, before I overtake.
A vehicle pulling to the left and braking before a junction / entrance on the right should not be overtaken - there is every possibility that they are intending to turn. The lack of indication could be due to driver error or failed indicators but, as above, do not overtake at all past junctions or entrances. But I think you learnt that the hard way....

The horn before overtaking is an interesting debate. Some instructors are great advocates of it. I think it can either have the desired effect or antagonise a driver who was otherwise intending to comply with your overtake. If there is no perceivable reason for a driver to deviate from their course then I will not use it. If the road is narrow or the vehicle large and you need active compliance from the overtakee, you are planning on overtaking on an (open) bend and there is a danger they may "cut" the corner or similar then use of the horn seems reasonable. Even then, I would wait for either a positive reaction or absence of some kind of blocking position before passing. A good blast of main beam may be better with large noisy-engined vehicles before you get too close, so that you will be noticed in their mirrors.

7db

6,058 posts

229 months

Friday 31st August 2012
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I was mid-overtake today when I decided that I didn't like the line the target was taking drifting out towards me. I used the horn, she noticed me and snapped back to the job of driving.

Once I was about two car lengths ahead she finally found her horn and gave me an angry retaliatory toot.

Whatevs.

DocSteve

718 posts

221 months

Friday 31st August 2012
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7db said:
I was mid-overtake today when I decided that I didn't like the line the target was taking drifting out towards me. I used the horn, she noticed me and snapped back to the job of driving.

Once I was about two car lengths ahead she finally found her horn and gave me an angry retaliatory toot.

Whatevs.
Sounds like a good time to use the horn! On your part, obviously.

New POD

3,851 posts

149 months

Tuesday 4th September 2012
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DocSteve said:
New POD said:
Some years ago I was following behind a car that was braking and moving to the left. I choose to overtake it, as it turned right into a staff car park. Luckily the only injury was whiplash from the impact of my front left wing removing the right front headlight from behind (so fraudulent). My car was a write off due to the suspension damage on hitting the kurb, with both wheels locked.

What I learnt was. Always assume that the person behind does not have a clue you are there, and if they do, assume they don't think you are going to overtake. I often use my horn, before I overtake.
A vehicle pulling to the left and braking before a junction / entrance on the right should not be overtaken - there is every possibility that they are intending to turn. The lack of indication could be due to driver error or failed indicators but, as above, do not overtake at all past junctions or entrances. But I think you learnt that the hard way....

I certainly did. In my defence, it was level with the staff entrance to tesco, and every morning there were cars moving to the left, stopping and dropping people off, so I made an assumption, but hey never again.

PaulG40

2,381 posts

224 months

Sunday 23rd September 2012
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Ah, reading that BBC article, the story makes abit more sense. The sun article fails to mention witnesses, who were actually driving directly behind the pug 807 and they said it was indicating and they braked (witnesses car) as you might expect, at that point the lad behind them overtook both of them. From going off that, it was a very poorly judged overtake from the lad's point of view, and he probably would have never seen the 807's indicators apart from for a fraction of a second.

Certainly bad driving, i can see the frustration of being stuck behind slow movers who don't know the area when your a local but basic roadcraft and abit of assumption would have gone a long way.


Something I find occasionally, and i'll probably say it's my fault for being abit too impatient on the long A9 in Scotland is being in a queue behind a few cars and a lorry in front, I 'm positioned to view the road ahead, and knowing the road well, once clear, indicating I go for an overtake only to find the driver in front suddenly pop out too unaware of my position. It's usually a case of slam the brakes on, or they see me last minute and dive left again and i get back on the throttle.