RE: Chimaera LS6
Discussion
thirsty said:The more number I here about TVR power rating the more it make my blood boil. Un-bloody beleiveable and it is Sp6's, Rv8's and AJPv8's that are Wildy inflated - after checking out alot of the above at SRR yesterday.
Thirsty - they go forward same as in std car - but MUCH better than std rubbish system (all those Huge bore changes and goiing from 2 to 1 to 2 just murder the gas flow. And engine is only SLightly bigger (a tad a cross the heads).
I guess it just looks more crowded with the large red Corvette covers over the heads.
As for the BHP you mentioned in one of your other threads... My Chim 450 rated at 285 BHP was actually putting out 233 at the flywheel and 198 at the wheels. Still had lots of grunt, but always wondered why TVR fudged their numbers so badly.
They just do not make what is claimed - in some cases not even close.
boosted ls1 said:Mike - you have the one's over 500bhp!
Have to admit I'd be willing to undertake bespoke transplants as well but not run of the mill stuff. I have some very short front end assemblies and access to ls7/darton 427 parts as well.
Boosted.
On the tuscan chassis thing tvrolet - forgot the rose jointing - but geometry is basically the same and camber and toe etc on std cars is set at a sensible road bias. Similar. Mine will get an FIA Spec twin hoop Cobra copy cage soon (mate has a real 60 racer! - I have measured it!).
OK - finally BHP / Torque at SRR from yesterday.
Some background first. Car at Le mans was easyily keeping with Sag's on the longs straights in France.
This was on the first ecu! The second from the US seemed to be a tad better and put it on the rollers POST ted driving it. It only made 320bhp but did make 360ft/lbs (and over 300ft/lbs right from 1800 - 6k rpm) - (and this is a good bit more power than a Taraka and load more toque - even not running right!), so I think it was the torque that made it seem fast. The filer was still under the bonnet as rushed to get to le mans (in right place when Ted ran it).
I know that sounds crap (well bhp not torque) - but it just goes to prove that statically programed GM ECU's/ PCM's where you do not know the air fuel going in and the exhaust will never produce the numbers.
Hence Wortec! The car had always eaten fuel like it was going out of fsahion - runninmg Sooooo rich.
Paul at Wortec found that it was running about 40% to rich but lean in places as well (no wonder the MIL light never went out - It does now!).
The throttle stop was wound out so I was not getting full throttle!
The advance on the US map was set Soooo low that it was crazy - er safe - but Power er no! Good for torque! As much as 8 degs of in places! Ans apparently these engine make about 4 - 5bhp per deg of advance.
One final thing (for Boosted expecting 440ish) - I should say to get the exhaust round the engine (wide sump and oil filter right where you do not want them) you cannot run the same bore as a Holden or Corvette in the primary pipes (they are either 2.5 or 3" - someone know?)- we could only get in 2.25 round either side of the sump (cannot hang below as it ould not last long!). The small deep tin sump on RV8 500's has room for the single 3" bore pipe (but the system is such a huge compromise else in all areas - remember I have 2x 2.25" bore pipe where the std has 1x 3" bore (basic maths!).
Anyway it would be difficult to get the 405bhp of the std ZO6, bearing the above in mind. BUT Ha got sooo close and Pual only had it for 2 days and syas they is maybe another 20bhp and a bit more torque to come with more tuning (he was aware that I could not saay tune it for week!). My centre box is like a TVR one and not really right for an LS engine - balancing but not like it should so I will change this centre section to the way it should be to scavenge more gases - as Paul tells me these engine fires 2 cylinders on each bank in one cycle not like a rover that alternates 1 per bank firing.
So 388bhp with a few days tuning and the above in mind is Fantastic - had to drive it home in pooring rain so not really tried it yet - had a few blast to 5k and it is MENTAL (in 5th!) that is with 1600rpm to go!
Ooh and how smooth is that curve!!!!
Last thing - these engine do not like running hot and the ecu is clever enough to back off the advance when tis happened - Paul tells me that running it round on the road it took full advance but after 20+mins and the drive there was getting warm! and was knocking 2 degs of advance out at the end which it is not doing with plenty of cold air through it, so that that has to be another 9ish bhp which basically is about the 400! and like I said with smaller bore system, AND with a bit more to come (maybe 10 - 20bhp).
I would just like to thanks Paul(Wortec) and Charlie (SRR) - sensible (pessimistic numbers remember!) for there help over the last few months and for the future.
Thanks.
IT IS LIKE HAVING A SATURN 5 ROCKET STRAPPED TO THE TOP OF THE CAR NOW - CHRIST WHEN IT IS DRY I MIGHT HAVE TO SEE WHAT IT REALLY DOES....
Bear in mind my car is about 100kg lighter than a Cerb too! (That is 5 Olympic size weight for any meetheadz!) - and alot more and from lower torque - I don't hold alot of store buy none independently calibrated roller number!).
Sorry about definition! alot of cuting and pasting in lots of different apps to get it done!
>> Edited by jellison on Thursday 29th September 11:59
jellison said:
boosted ls1 said:
Have to admit I'd be willing to undertake bespoke transplants as well but not run of the mill stuff. I have some very short front end assemblies and access to ls7/darton 427 parts as well.
Boosted.
Mike - you have the one's over 500bhp!
I already have, engines that is John. Have 2 boosted builds on the go and an ls7/darton hybrid in the pipeline. Lots of titanium in there
Nice figures and at the wheels to. So allow for 40 hp transmission losses and you would be making 428 appx at the engine. A gain of 23 hp over a stock ls6. Not bad news at all. I just guessed at 440 with headers because a lot of figures get bandied about and that was the most I'd expect a stock engine to make.
Boosted.
>> Edited by boosted ls1 on Thursday 29th September 12:56
boosted ls1 said:Mike - I wish (that was at the wheels) no at the fly SRR numbers. Basically 5 - 10 bhp down on the 405 in a std Corvette Z06 but then they do have larger bore exhaust, but may get 10 back with the right balanace pipe and loose the centre box and bit more from Paul.
boosted ls1 said:
Have to admit I'd be willing to undertake bespoke transplants as well but not run of the mill stuff. I have some very short front end assemblies and access to ls7/darton 427 parts as well.
Boosted.
Mike - you have the one's over 500bhp!
I already have, engines that is John. Have 2 boosted builds on the go and an ls7/darton hybrid in the pipeline. Lots of titanium in there
Nice figures and at the wheels to. So allow for 40 hp transmission losses and you would be making 428 appx at the engine. A gain of 23 hp over a stock ls6. Not bad news at all. I just guessed at 440 with headers because a lot of figures get bandied about and that was the most I'd expect a stock engine to make.
Boosted.
>> Edited by boosted ls1 on Thursday 29th September 12:56
It is SO fast it is nuts - it is only 1100kg!
"jellison" I am happy you arrived home safe.....
Most of the time on your car was spent sorting out the uploading to the PCM and getting the car to run within parameters!!!!
Your car (with a few mechanical changes) will produce another 20-30hp without too much tuning and a little more given the time (budget) to do so.
But given the time scale and financial constraints I think you have a potent car (understatement!!!!) so enjoy it.............
Most of the time on your car was spent sorting out the uploading to the PCM and getting the car to run within parameters!!!!
Your car (with a few mechanical changes) will produce another 20-30hp without too much tuning and a little more given the time (budget) to do so.
But given the time scale and financial constraints I think you have a potent car (understatement!!!!) so enjoy it.............
jellison said:And if anyone would like to have a look at the SRR Graphs from a slightly
OK - finally BHP / Torque at SRR from yesterday.
IT IS LIKE HAVING A SATURN 5 ROCKET STRAPPED TO THE TOP OF THE CAR NOW
smaller Saturn Rocket powered by a RV8 
That was under fueling
Jon try photobucket as a host
GingerNinja said:Sorry i should have said its not stndard but also not heavily modified/blown and not wild...
Seasider - your figures (both torque and bhp) seem very high for a standard 5.0 RV8 - have you had some work done? Even the Taraka only normally takes it up (at best) to 320 bhp with around the same torque (295 - 310)????
It's been Flywheel Dyno'd when I had a new cam MC2
Producing 308 bhp @ 5,400 & 334lb/ft @3,900
This was with a Carb set up rather than EFI.
Since the original Engine/flywheel Dyno:-
72mm Throttle Butterfly
45mm Trumpets, matching base & inlet.
(All ally)
Smooth bore inlet pipes.(Tim)
Pre-Cats (missing in action)
Not been chipped yet
jellison said:Still 5.0 Jon same as when you last queried it
They are weird engine the long stroke 5.0 (assuming it is 5.0)
Perhaps Charlie can explain, i dont know if the other Griffs had a high Torque reading on the day.
If i remember correctly they all came out about as expected. Except the Taraka that was running a bit sick and alot less than expected.
Here the video - PH are on the ball today for approving these - cheers guys.
www.pistonheads.tv/clip556
>> Edited by jellison on Friday 30th September 11:42
www.pistonheads.tv/clip556
>> Edited by jellison on Friday 30th September 11:42
jellison said:
Here the video - PH are on the ball today for approving these - cheers guys.
<a href="www.pistonheads.tv/clip556">www.pistonheads.tv/clip556</a>
Nice Dyno numbers Jon,
Why do you guys over there spend so much time & money trying to build HP up to the ragged edge with Rover engines? The same thing is done over here with the quaint old Ford 5.0 V8s. Find a junk yard Mustang and $10,000.00 US later you have 375 HP, 260 Ft/Lb torque for awhile. It's like competing in drag racing today on a Harley-Davidson, the old technology, heritage thing eh?
We're all running LS V8s for reliable, serious HP in a lightweight package. Tim's Dyno numbers in his Miata are very similar; 383 HP and 381 Ft/Lbs at the rear wheels running an OEM type, upgraded ECU using a MAF. GM spent millions designing the ECU, it makes consistant good performance, all the time, in any conditions.
Have a great week-end!!!!!!!!
Why do you guys over there spend so much time & money trying to build HP up to the ragged edge with Rover engines? The same thing is done over here with the quaint old Ford 5.0 V8s. Find a junk yard Mustang and $10,000.00 US later you have 375 HP, 260 Ft/Lb torque for awhile. It's like competing in drag racing today on a Harley-Davidson, the old technology, heritage thing eh?
We're all running LS V8s for reliable, serious HP in a lightweight package. Tim's Dyno numbers in his Miata are very similar; 383 HP and 381 Ft/Lbs at the rear wheels running an OEM type, upgraded ECU using a MAF. GM spent millions designing the ECU, it makes consistant good performance, all the time, in any conditions.
Have a great week-end!!!!!!!!
LS V8s in Miatas said:
Nice Dyno numbers Jon,
Why do you guys over there spend so much time & money trying to build HP up to the ragged edge with Rover engines? The same thing is done over here with the quaint old Ford 5.0 V8s. Find a junk yard Mustang and $10,000.00 US later you have 375 HP, 260 Ft/Lb torque for awhile. It's like competing in drag racing today on a Harley-Davidson, the old technology, heritage thing eh?
We're all running LS V8s for reliable, serious HP in a lightweight package. Tim's Dyno numbers in his Miata are very similar; 383 HP and 381 Ft/Lbs at the rear wheels running an OEM type, upgraded ECU using a MAF. GM spent millions designing the ECU, it makes consistant good performance, all the time, in any conditions.
Have a great week-end!!!!!!!!
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