Brake discs have failed an MOT
Discussion
DuraAce said:
Its a tough when a subjective opinion is required though isn't it?
Those discs do look pretty scabby. Its hard (impossible?) to define EXACTLY where the line is when its comes to serviceability of consumables.
Look at it from the other side.... Imagine if he passed it today and as you drove home from the test one of the rear discs shattered (+ brake failure/accident etc). Are you telling me you'd honestly just suck it up or would you be complaining that the they should have failed it and made you replace them before issuing a certificate?
Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't some times.
I completely agree with your point, VOSA should define some way to make a pass or fail black or white they haven't done that. But I have asked a few examimers and they say they would have passed them, one said, if you could drive it here, it passed the brake test and they weren't cracked, holed split or missing then they were a pass. Infact a couple of people have actually questioned the pads more than the discs as it looks like they may be done to the bare metal, but they passed.Those discs do look pretty scabby. Its hard (impossible?) to define EXACTLY where the line is when its comes to serviceability of consumables.
Look at it from the other side.... Imagine if he passed it today and as you drove home from the test one of the rear discs shattered (+ brake failure/accident etc). Are you telling me you'd honestly just suck it up or would you be complaining that the they should have failed it and made you replace them before issuing a certificate?
Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't some times.
Let me look at it from that side too, does my MOT come with a guarantee? If it passes is the car road legal for the next 12 months? Nope, I could be pulled over and fined the second I hit a public road if the car is not roadworthy. Your MOT is really just another form of tax.
What I'm really questioning is the validity of my MOT refusal.
Justin S said:
How much for discs and pads !! Someones pulling a blinder. I got a set of rear Brembo discs and Brembo sport pads for £80 for my xc60 and 1hr later they were fitted by me. Personally I would never let a disc get as bad as that. They are 'very' borderline on safe / legal breaking. I would suspect the S40 uses the same discs and pads as a focus, which will be cheap as chips.
can get discs for about £13 and pads for around £26, but yes Hlafords in Stirling quoted me £178.54 for rear pads and discs and £18.99 to replace the wiper blade they broke.Funny enough they left a eurocarparts invoice on the desk when I came is, so its not like I'm buying halfords own over priced brands.
On the MOT refresher course,sometimes they have examples of discs that they use to get opinions of a pass or fail. You would be surprised and shocked how bad a disc can be before it is considered to be a failure. Pads will fail if less than 1.5mm of friction material is remaining, which is usually impossible to see clearly enough to be 100% sure you are accurate enough to fail on this criteria. The mantra now is, if in doubt, pass and advise. I see no issue with those discs.
The advisory would read: Rear brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
A reason for rejection would read : a brake disc or drum in such a condition that it is seriously weakened or insecure
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s03000501.htm
No doubt on these though!
https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/horror-story-...
https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/horror-story-...
Brake pipes are an even more thorny subject.
The advisory would read: Rear brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
A reason for rejection would read : a brake disc or drum in such a condition that it is seriously weakened or insecure
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s03000501.htm
No doubt on these though!
https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/horror-story-...
https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/horror-story-...
Brake pipes are an even more thorny subject.
Edited by tiffx19 on Thursday 26th March 02:07
Yes, my discs haven't quite reached that stage yet and never will. To be honest the car would probably get scrapped before they got that bad.
Thank you all for your replies, it seems quite clear that the halfords in Stirling were just out to make a quick £178.54 for changing the discs and pads, when they should have just passed and advised.
I've emailed them about this and the wiper blade they damaged to get a fail but their replies have been close to non-existant, customer service is shocking. I'll await to see the result of the new MOT I'm getting this afternoon and take it from there.
Thank you all for your replies, it seems quite clear that the halfords in Stirling were just out to make a quick £178.54 for changing the discs and pads, when they should have just passed and advised.
I've emailed them about this and the wiper blade they damaged to get a fail but their replies have been close to non-existant, customer service is shocking. I'll await to see the result of the new MOT I'm getting this afternoon and take it from there.
macphee70 said:
Blah Blah Blah .....their replies have been close to non-existant, customer service is shocking...... Blah Blah Blah
Same as your attitude to brake maintenance then. Garages eh? Shysters the lot of em. Totally unethical, unlike a fine upstanding chap who thinks those discs should pass the MOT so he can flog the car with fooked brakes onto some poor sap in a couple of months time.
Double standards? No sirree....
Hammer67 said:
Same as your attitude to brake maintenance then.
Garages eh? Shysters the lot of em. Totally unethical, unlike a fine upstanding chap who thinks those discs should pass the MOT so he can flog the car with fooked brakes onto some poor sap in a couple of months time.
Double standards? No sirree....
Did I ever say they were all Shysters? Nope, but the Halfords Autocentre in Stirling certainly is. Anyway the full MOT retest was done today at a different garage. 3 advisorys, rear brake discs, rear pads and number plate.Garages eh? Shysters the lot of em. Totally unethical, unlike a fine upstanding chap who thinks those discs should pass the MOT so he can flog the car with fooked brakes onto some poor sap in a couple of months time.
Double standards? No sirree....
Did I ever say I was going to flog the car to some poor sap in a couple of months time, might help if you read the posts rather than speculating. If you looking for an argument, which it looks like, then try you tube.
Edited by macphee70 on Thursday 26th March 19:55
Edited by macphee70 on Thursday 26th March 19:55
Your 7th post:
"Unfortunately I'm looking for a pass, I want to get rid of the car in a couple of months and if I could get 2 or 3 out of it I'd be happy".
What does that mean then? Scrapping it I assume.
Anyway, I hope you've got lovely warm feeling inside that you've got one over on the garage. You must be so pleased.
Meanwhile your brakes are still f
ked.
"Unfortunately I'm looking for a pass, I want to get rid of the car in a couple of months and if I could get 2 or 3 out of it I'd be happy".
What does that mean then? Scrapping it I assume.
Anyway, I hope you've got lovely warm feeling inside that you've got one over on the garage. You must be so pleased.
Meanwhile your brakes are still f
ked. Yip, will only really be fit as scrap. Why? You want to buy it? £2500 quid to you. Got a full years MOT 
Haven't got one over on the garage. They've incorrectly failed a legal test and been found out.
And yip I've still got brakes that should be changed, but no longer illegal as halford would like to believe.
You work for Halfords?
Haven't got one over on the garage. They've incorrectly failed a legal test and been found out.
And yip I've still got brakes that should be changed, but no longer illegal as halford would like to believe.
You work for Halfords?
The place I take my fleet to, would have passed that and it wouldn't even be an advisory. But they would have mentioned it, and told me to get it sorted. and I would have got it done. If they failed a car of mine for that, I would be happy as I'd have an incentive to get my arse off the sofa and my tools out.
Actually they told me 2 weeks back the BINI would need pads all round soon, but it looks to me like there's a few mm left, but hey I better get my arse into gear, and get it done.
Actually they told me 2 weeks back the BINI would need pads all round soon, but it looks to me like there's a few mm left, but hey I better get my arse into gear, and get it done.
Pit Pony said:
The place I take my fleet to, would have passed that and it wouldn't even be an advisory. But they would have mentioned it, and told me to get it sorted. and I would have got it done. If they failed a car of mine for that, I would be happy as I'd have an incentive to get my arse off the sofa and my tools out.
Actually they told me 2 weeks back the BINI would need pads all round soon, but it looks to me like there's a few mm left, but hey I better get my arse into gear, and get it done.
Thank pit Pony, I will get them done and I did feel they were an advisory but it seems to me here that Halfords were just profiteering from the situation. Lesson learned on my behalf I guess.Actually they told me 2 weeks back the BINI would need pads all round soon, but it looks to me like there's a few mm left, but hey I better get my arse into gear, and get it done.
The really bad thing is they left me with a car that I couldn't drive because it wasn't road legal, when in reality it was. That's a serious inconvenience, given that I couldn't get another MOT the next day. On a more dangerous note they damaged a windscreen wiper making that car dangerous to drive - that's not right.
I'm guesing that this situation is really about the Stirling autocentre trying to hit sales targets, I guess the staff get a bonus when they do so there's an incentive to try and flog stuff that isn't needed, but don't halfords have any morals?
Not to the mention the environmental impact this has, changing exhasts, tyres, wipers etc that are still fit for purpose. Its not very green is it?
This really is a minefield. Those brakes passed their rolling road test,so they are working correctly, they are not about to break up or fail in the near future and are perfectly serviceable. The MOT is a minimum standard,on items than can be seen and tested without using tools. If you wish to maintain your car to a better standard, that is your choice and highly sensible,but as far as the MOT test goes then minimum standard is a pass..
I'd recommend changing them. Bet the pads are seized in the hangers and I bet the calipers are on their way out too - Common as muck on nearly all volvos to need rear calipers at somepoint. Who ever does them needs to properly clean and prepare all the contact surfaces or the pads will just seized again within a matter of weeks.
Looking on the motester.Co.UK site, one of the brake checks is this:-
'Discs and drums (external only) checked for condition and contamination'
Therefore the test cannot be subjective as discs don't wear in an uniform fashion, and I doubt VOSA can standardise this. I'd prefer they checked, rather than didn't.
'Discs and drums (external only) checked for condition and contamination'
Therefore the test cannot be subjective as discs don't wear in an uniform fashion, and I doubt VOSA can standardise this. I'd prefer they checked, rather than didn't.
Yes but that is not the whole story the testers manual and perhaps most importantly the training courses and QC provide examples of what is a pass and fail . It not the operation but the criteria that are subjective and have to be learned and testers are expected to differentiate between pass and fail.
This is why I would either use a known trusted local garage or a local authority test centre and not a national chain however good the offer or convenient the opening hours.
This is why I would either use a known trusted local garage or a local authority test centre and not a national chain however good the offer or convenient the opening hours.
grumpy52 said:
When garages fail cars at mot time on the things that they 'specialise' in isn't it time to wake up !
All the complaints I ever read about mot problems involve Kwik Sh#t, Halfrauds etc etc .
Find a local independent garage , local reputation and recommendations mean a lot .
surely if 'any' garage that does MOT's and repairs fails a car it will have failed on something the 'specialise' in.All the complaints I ever read about mot problems involve Kwik Sh#t, Halfrauds etc etc .
Find a local independent garage , local reputation and recommendations mean a lot .
As for the discs.....
I think the condition is appalling and typical of the state we see some cars presented for MOT at work. Some people place no importance on their car and have no concern for their own or other road users safety.
Unless you're an MOT tester or work in a garage you wouldn't believe some of things we see.
The frightening thing is (in general) you've no idea about the condition of the car next to you in the traffic queue or the one who might need to slam on behind you in the wet when you have to stop and he's too close.
I'm an MOT tester. And I can tell by the replies who else is a tester.
As mentioned the way we are told is pass an advise pretty much nything you think is borderline.
Those discs going by the lips means there is a question to the discs structural integrity.
Along with the fact the sliders will be seized as will the pistons. Someone else alluded to the volvo rear caliper seizure problem.
The mot test is the testers opinion. You may say they are fine, 99 others may pass and advise, there will be another 99 that will fail it.
As for the revenue stream, yes this is a factor. Often the old wiper blade trick is the most profitable.
I own a garage, but I don't MOT test there. My garage I do jobs referred from other garages, usual engine swaps etc.
There are council only stations, not sure where the Stirling one is as I'm Glasgow based.
The mot test is also only there to state the vehicle met the absolute minimum requirements for a pass at the time.
But I agree with whoever said they were scrap, they are. They need repaired and done properly, which they often aren't.
As mentioned the way we are told is pass an advise pretty much nything you think is borderline.
Those discs going by the lips means there is a question to the discs structural integrity.
Along with the fact the sliders will be seized as will the pistons. Someone else alluded to the volvo rear caliper seizure problem.
The mot test is the testers opinion. You may say they are fine, 99 others may pass and advise, there will be another 99 that will fail it.
As for the revenue stream, yes this is a factor. Often the old wiper blade trick is the most profitable.
I own a garage, but I don't MOT test there. My garage I do jobs referred from other garages, usual engine swaps etc.
There are council only stations, not sure where the Stirling one is as I'm Glasgow based.
The mot test is also only there to state the vehicle met the absolute minimum requirements for a pass at the time.
But I agree with whoever said they were scrap, they are. They need repaired and done properly, which they often aren't.
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