Brake discs have failed an MOT

Brake discs have failed an MOT

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macphee70

Original Poster:

15 posts

108 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
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Hello,

I'm looking for some advice her and sorry im new but i thought this was somewhere good to turn to.

My S40 has just failed an MOT on the grounds that both of the rear discs are in a conditions that is seriously weakened [ 3.5.1i] I've looked at them and I don't believe that this is the case.

So I've taken some photos as best I can and I'm taking the car to a different garage to be assessed but I just wanted other people opinion on them first.

I've put them on a google drive and apologies for the poor photos
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5aJVO9_Os...



Thank you



t400ble

1,804 posts

120 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
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Look scrap to me

macphee70

Original Poster:

15 posts

108 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
quotequote all
Thanks for the replies,

The results were 159Kgf and 205kgf imb 13% for the test and they passed the Bind, Judder and Grab, the overall test for both front and back was a pass with an overall efficiency of 69%. Last year the results were 180kgf and 223kgf Imb 17% with an overall efficiency of 68%.

Anyone else have an opinion?

macphee70

Original Poster:

15 posts

108 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
quotequote all
Hi t4ooble
What would your grounds being for scrapping them, I'm not debating that they should be replaced and questioning weather they are an MOT fail or not.

What state do discs need to be in to fail, cracked? seriously chipped? really thin?

Hammer67

5,706 posts

183 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
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One thing is clear, no maintenance has been carried out on those. The edge of the disc is basically just rust. Were you to wedge a screwdriver against it and spin the disc great chunks would fall off and quite possibly, some of the braking surfaces as well.

Whatever the MOT issue, they need replacing. You may not agree with the tester but he's acting in your best interests here.

Lets say he passed them and in 6 months time one of the discs failed, you would probably say "They passed an MOT, the tester should have failed them." Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

macphee70

Original Poster:

15 posts

108 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
quotequote all
I don't agree that he's acting in my best interest, the test is meant to be a test that proves the vehicle is road worthy at that moment in time, not next week and not in 6 months time, just that exact moment. I wouldn't blame him for passing it this today and it falling apart tomorrow, that's my problem not his. An MOT doesn't come with a guarantee

The test should also be repetitive, it shouldn't be subjective, one garage that passes the discs should be the same as another garage. If he feels they need changed but cannot prove they are a fail it should only be an advisory item. I suspect that I could hit those discs with a hammer and they would not fall apart, just because they are rusty doesn't mean they are a fail.

I'm not disagreeing that they shouldn't be changed though.

Hammer67

5,706 posts

183 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
quotequote all
Well, if you think that then fine. Complain, moan, whinge to anyone who'll listen. Won't change anything.

You ask for advice in your opening post. Here's some:

Fit new discs and pads, book it in for a retest.

macphee70

Original Poster:

15 posts

108 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
quotequote all
Thank for your advice hammmer, but all I really wanted to know was weather you felt it was a pass or fail. You feel its a fail, your entitled to that opiona dn I'm greatful for it thank you.

The local garage I brought it to this afternoon disagrees with you and agree it should be a pass but should also be replaced. So its going for another MOT somewhere else tomorrow and I'll wait and see what they say.

kev b

2,708 posts

165 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
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The cost of another test will probably be more than the price of new discs.

macphee70

Original Poster:

15 posts

108 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
quotequote all
Probably not as I'll have to get the pads changed too and agree it would be wise to do that. Also the garage that failed the discs was the Halfords Autocentre in Stirling, they also ripped one of my wiper blades and failed the other one (which is fine) Both were fine upon presentation to the MOT

They've quoted £18.99 for the wiper blade and £178.54 for 2 rear discs and pads. That's almost worth more than the car in total. For a car that probably should have passed.

I wont be going back there again

DuraAce

4,240 posts

159 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
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If you agree it needs new disc+pads and you're happy to fit them, why are you wasting money getting it MOT'd elsewhere?

Or am I missing something?! What outcome are you looking for?

macphee70

Original Poster:

15 posts

108 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
quotequote all
DuraAce said:
If you agree it needs new disc+pads and you're happy to fit them, why are you wasting money getting it MOT'd elsewhere?

Or am I missing something?! What outcome are you looking for?
Unfortunately I'm looking for a pass, I want to get rid of the car in a couple of months and if I could get 2 or 3 out of it I'd be happy.

Its also now the principle of the thing, I took the car to a garage and they failed it on wiper blades and brake discs, something it never should have failed on. They damaged one of the blades by pulling it apart and the other is fine. They are making a mockery of the MOT system and abusing it to make a profit. If it now passes then I will ask the garage in question for a refund and to pay for the new MOT given that they gave me no other choice than to get it, I will also request compensation for the damage they have caused to my car and the time and expenses I have incurred having to deal with the fiasco they have created.

That said if it fails then I'll have to shut up and eat humble pie, but I suspect it wont fail for the discs and wipers

I personally feel that MOT's should only be completed by VOSA staff not garage staff. That way they would be fair and independent, at a site where the car cannot be repaired. The system is flawed (I know this comment will upset a lot of people)

mad4amanda

2,410 posts

163 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
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Take it to one of the local council stations that have no axe to grind or discs to sell . If they pass it go back and complain and get a refund on the first test. To my mind as a former tester and QC way back and reading the current manual they should have been an advisory not a fail.
They still will need changing but you don`t dispute that.

SMB

1,513 posts

265 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
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if you feel you have been wronged you can appeal to vosa, however as you have taken the car away now, there's no link that shows the car as is is the car they tested.

I agree that some of the testers make work for their garage, and I even took a very well respected Indy to vosa as I disagreed with a fail on a brake disk. My disks were 2000 miles old, not rusty at all, and had a minor flaw in one of the faces, the tester failed it as a crack. I complained and took the replaced part away after I had paid to have the bits replaced. Vosa laughed when shown, and when confronted the garage funded the cost of the disks and labour in full.

Afterwards I found out the garage tester was actually the senior regional mot inspector!
Strangely in the years leading up to that I spent hundreds fixing things at that garage at mot time, in the last 6 years that same car has passed first time somewhere else......

SMB

1,513 posts

265 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
quotequote all
if you feel you have been wronged you can appeal to vosa, however as you have taken the car away now, there's no link that shows the car as is is the car they tested.

I agree that some of the testers make work for their garage, and I even took a very well respected Indy to vosa as I disagreed with a fail on a brake disk. My disks were 2000 miles old, not rusty at all, and had a minor flaw in one of the faces, the tester failed it as a crack. I complained and took the replaced part away after I had paid to have the bits replaced. Vosa laughed when shown, and when confronted the garage funded the cost of the disks and labour in full.

Afterwards I found out the garage tester was actually the senior regional mot inspector!
Strangely in the years leading up to that I spent hundreds fixing things at that garage at mot time, in the last 6 years that same car has passed first time somewhere else......

macphee70

Original Poster:

15 posts

108 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
quotequote all
I did want to appeal but I cant really wait the 5 days for the DSVA to arrange a retest, but I did contact them about it.

It also put myself and them in a tricky situation given that they would have to fail it for the wiperblade given the state it was in after the test. I cant dispute that it wasn't fit for purpose when it came back out and I certainly wouldn't expect it to pass now. So I've had to change it. I have kept the original should I need to show it to any one.

So on those grounds I'd expect a appeal to fail as the car is not roadworthy any more and they didnt seem to know if the local office would take into account the damage the garage did to the wiper blade.

I do have a total of 14 days to appeal it but I kind of need to use it and if its safe to drive why should it sit on my driveway with a MOT refusal attached to it.

What really bugs me is that I will have wasted a total of 3 days dealing with this issue when it wasn't really an issue at all, all because the halfords autocentre in stirling failed a car that probably should have passed.

caiss4

1,865 posts

196 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
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Try and cultivate a relationship with a good local tester/service outfit. I use a local guy who is old school in as far as he'll always try and solve a problem in the interests of my pocket. He gets my repeat business because he knows that I know what is what and never rips me off.

My wife's X-Trail went in for MOT just before Christmas; he called me to say that it had failed because the windscreen washers were not working. Aside from the fact that I was truly pee'd off because the pump was only 2 years old (and I should have checked this before the test!) it was the prospect of shelling out £40 for a new pump and the delay in getting the replacement.

So he says, no problem, I'll just replumb it so it uses the rear wash pump instead. In other words I would have to use the rear wash control to spray the windscreen. As he pointed out, the MOT only requires washing of the front screen; it does not specify how this should be achieved.

Result was that a new MOT was issued (with an additional £5 for re-plumbing) and I was able to get a replacement pump from GSF with a 20% discount a couple of months later and fit myself.

ETA: My old Alfa 156 suffered from corroded/worn rear discs (like yours) which the same guy pointed out (two years runnning!)but stated quite categorically that he could not fail the vehicle as they were not 'unsafe' per se but really should be replaced.

Edited by caiss4 on Wednesday 25th March 19:38

macphee70

Original Poster:

15 posts

108 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
quotequote all
That's really good caiss,

I did have a good relationship with a garage up the road but he closed down, which was a real shame. A new one has opened up a bit further away and I think he's really trying to make a good business off it, it was him that agreed that discs should pass. He doing an MOT on it tomorrow so I'll await the response. He seem genuine enough and reasonably priced.

I feel its sad that we all need to do this, imagine you had to do your weekly supermarket shop like this - nope cant go to that till, or that one the scanner is dodgy, or that one he tried to charge me and extra 50p for carrier bags last week, dont like him, or them they dont know the difference between a grape and a lime, etc. It would be a nightmare

DuraAce

4,240 posts

159 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
quotequote all
Its a tough when a subjective opinion is required though isn't it?

Those discs do look pretty scabby. Its hard (impossible?) to define EXACTLY where the line is when its comes to serviceability of consumables.

Look at it from the other side.... Imagine if he passed it today and as you drove home from the test one of the rear discs shattered (+ brake failure/accident etc). Are you telling me you'd honestly just suck it up or would you be complaining that the they should have failed it and made you replace them before issuing a certificate?

Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't some times.


Justin S

3,637 posts

260 months

Wednesday 25th March 2015
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How much for discs and pads !! Someones pulling a blinder. I got a set of rear Brembo discs and Brembo sport pads for £80 for my xc60 and 1hr later they were fitted by me. Personally I would never let a disc get as bad as that. They are 'very' borderline on safe / legal breaking. I would suspect the S40 uses the same discs and pads as a focus, which will be cheap as chips.