Non Technic LEGO
Discussion
Jader can you also please go and police the film thread as many download illegally. Mods don't seem to mind that copyright infringement for some reason. I don't usually lower myself to insults, but getting the other thread deleted, the one you wanted started makes you look a bit of a dick.
As above, I thought it was an interesting and worthy discussion, I thought sticking it in its own thread would have stopped anyone on here from throwing their toys out of the pram, but apparently not.
I've lost count of the number of threads in GG discussing replica cars and the like (for just one example), best head off to the archive and report all of those to the mods for deletion too before anymore outrage is suffered- won't somebody think of the kids! Then go and police the watch, film, TV, & computer sections too. Thank the heavens we don't have a clothing/fashion section, all hell would break loose.
I've lost count of the number of threads in GG discussing replica cars and the like (for just one example), best head off to the archive and report all of those to the mods for deletion too before anymore outrage is suffered- won't somebody think of the kids! Then go and police the watch, film, TV, & computer sections too. Thank the heavens we don't have a clothing/fashion section, all hell would break loose.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
You are not the forum Police.
Please don't behave like you are.
FWIW I think you have done the thread a dis-service.
Will the mods stop people discussing Chinese rip-off cars such as Land wind etc that mimic RR and the like? Of course not.
OTT and not needed.
So much this. Please don't behave like you are.
FWIW I think you have done the thread a dis-service.
Will the mods stop people discussing Chinese rip-off cars such as Land wind etc that mimic RR and the like? Of course not.
OTT and not needed.
richtea78 said:
PH sold the moderating to another company ages ago anyway
Horsepoo.For ref. I am PH's first ever and still serving mod. Moderation of PH is carried out almost completely (Haymarket employees excepted) by regular posters/volunteers.
As a mod and regular contributor to this thread, I saw no issue with the Lepin posts. But obviously others (no doubt alerted by a 'report' and not that au fait with the content) saw different. I'll find out why it was deemed right to delete them.
Stig said:
richtea78 said:
PH sold the moderating to another company ages ago anyway
Horsepoo.For ref. I am PH's first ever and still serving mod. Moderation of PH is carried out almost completely (Haymarket employees excepted) by regular posters/volunteers.
As a mod and regular contributor to this thread, I saw no issue with the Lepin posts. But obviously others (no doubt alerted by a 'report' and not that au fait with the content) saw different. I'll find out why it was deemed right to delete them.
The real problem here is that posts regarding the Lepin stuff have gone and will probably never be seen again, from this thread that's no loss but the other thread was started in answer to the complaining poster who didn't want to read about knock off lego in this thread.
Again, thanks for the reply, please let us know what you find and if possible push to allow us to carry on our discussions about this off brand copy. So long as we are not selling it or advertising it I cant see how we are breaking any laws.
Hugely annoying that the Lepin thread got deleted simply someone threw his toys out of the pram.
Yes, I know it's fake/knock off but so is the fake Breitling I bought in Spain a couple of years ago.
The fake stuff will not go away & if some people want to buy it because they cannot afford the real thing then, in my mind, sobeit.
It's what makes the world go around. I was going to buy the Lepin GT3 however decided not too for the time being.
Just read another thread that someone has built a replica (fake) of an older car so will that thread be deleted?
Of course it won't. Will any reference to copy cat GT40's, AC Cobras etc be deleted? No they won't because people who cannot afford the real thing want a replica so will those threads be deleted? Of course they won't.
The Lepin thread should not have been deleted. iMO.
Yes, I know it's fake/knock off but so is the fake Breitling I bought in Spain a couple of years ago.
The fake stuff will not go away & if some people want to buy it because they cannot afford the real thing then, in my mind, sobeit.
It's what makes the world go around. I was going to buy the Lepin GT3 however decided not too for the time being.
Just read another thread that someone has built a replica (fake) of an older car so will that thread be deleted?
Of course it won't. Will any reference to copy cat GT40's, AC Cobras etc be deleted? No they won't because people who cannot afford the real thing want a replica so will those threads be deleted? Of course they won't.
The Lepin thread should not have been deleted. iMO.
It appears some people are upset by the thread deletion. I'm also aware some posts about genuine Lego got caught in the fallout. I'm sorry about that.
However, let me provide some explanation for my actions, none of which were in any way motivated by a desire to upset any particular PHers.
1) Copyright infringement is theft. This is not a slightly wrong looking copy of an Evoke. Change the logo on the box to "Lego" and you would not be able to tell the difference.
2) Large organisations employ people to protect their brand. For example the company I work for employ people to check the web for counterfeit parts and merchandise. EBay sellers get no warning - they get a letter from our legal dept threatening action. They recently took down a Chinese mob that were selling fake parts in copy OE packaging - worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Ask yourself this: What is better for Haymarket and PistonHeads?
a) Someone flags their concerns about discussion on knock off Lego, which included links to a site you buy it from; and a thread that has both the copy and genuine brand names in the title; points out the parallels to music/film piracy and suggests they review whether it should remain.
Or
b) Haymarket get a letter from Lego's (or God forbid, Disney's) lawyers threatening legal action, at which point who knows how they would react? Close the thread completely? Purge all mention of the other brand? Ban anyone who mentioned it?
As a publishing house Haymarket appear to understand the need for copyright protection. It isn't an issue of good / bad moderation - the site has clear rules around this sort of discussion.
I won't object to a thread about the copy stuff provided it doesn't mention Lego in the title. I can't guarantee Lego wouldn't object though. Haymarket as operators of the site have to make that call.
And, cheer up you lot! Lego is meant to make us happy
However, let me provide some explanation for my actions, none of which were in any way motivated by a desire to upset any particular PHers.
1) Copyright infringement is theft. This is not a slightly wrong looking copy of an Evoke. Change the logo on the box to "Lego" and you would not be able to tell the difference.
2) Large organisations employ people to protect their brand. For example the company I work for employ people to check the web for counterfeit parts and merchandise. EBay sellers get no warning - they get a letter from our legal dept threatening action. They recently took down a Chinese mob that were selling fake parts in copy OE packaging - worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Ask yourself this: What is better for Haymarket and PistonHeads?
a) Someone flags their concerns about discussion on knock off Lego, which included links to a site you buy it from; and a thread that has both the copy and genuine brand names in the title; points out the parallels to music/film piracy and suggests they review whether it should remain.
Or
b) Haymarket get a letter from Lego's (or God forbid, Disney's) lawyers threatening legal action, at which point who knows how they would react? Close the thread completely? Purge all mention of the other brand? Ban anyone who mentioned it?
As a publishing house Haymarket appear to understand the need for copyright protection. It isn't an issue of good / bad moderation - the site has clear rules around this sort of discussion.
I won't object to a thread about the copy stuff provided it doesn't mention Lego in the title. I can't guarantee Lego wouldn't object though. Haymarket as operators of the site have to make that call.
And, cheer up you lot! Lego is meant to make us happy
Edited by Jader1973 on Monday 22 August 01:14
Edited by Jader1973 on Monday 22 August 06:16
When you're in a hole....
Anyway here are the posting rules. Please let us know high has been breached.
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Anyway here are the posting rules. Please let us know high has been breached.
Posting Rules
Of course you've read our Terms and Conditions as you agreed to them when you signed up but in case your memory isn't great, here are the important bits with regard to posting in the forums.
We restrict new member access to certain forums for a period of 14 days; once that time has passed access will automatically be granted.
If you see any material on our website which you'd like to alert us to, or if you feel you need moderator assistance, please use the 'report' button on the top right of each post and we will be alerted to the reported issue straight away.
If you wish to speak to someone regarding forum conduct or moderation issues please contact the PH Team (support@pistonheads.com)
Do not post material that a reasonable person would find offensive, annoying or upsetting, including personal information (including facebook/twitter/linked-in etc) & amateur sleuthing, nor may you bypass the swear filter.
Do not be argumentative for the sake of it or be deliberately contrary. Do not post links or images which contain pornographic, violent, racist or sexist material or that could be seen as offensive or unlawful in any way.
Do not post any copyright-protected material without permission including streaming sports content. If in doubt, don't post it.
Do not post or link for the purposes of advertising or personal gain (including cars for sale) or cross-post across multiple forums. If you wish to advertise please use the classifieds or contact us directly. Please note that we do not allow members to advertise their own car in the forums, nor do we allow members to post asking for valuations on their current car (please use the classifieds as a guide).
Do not choose a username which is the same as a company or trading name, nor create multiple profiles or attempt to use any other person's PH log-in to post content without permission or promote charity events, recruit for charitable donations, surveys or seek votes for competitions without permission nor promote events without permission.
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Edited by robemcdonald on Monday 22 August 07:06
Jader1973 said:
1) Copyright infringement is theft. This is not a slightly wrong looking copy of an Evoke. Change the logo on the box to "Lego" and you would not be able to tell the difference.
It's not theft, it's copyright infringement. Theft is a criminal act, copyright infringement is a civil wrong.If the items are available to buy in the shops, then it's for Lego to protect and enforce their IP. It's not for you to do it for them, and people who buy the products and post about them online are not doing anything wrong.
Jader1973 said:
It appears some people are upset by the thread deletion. I'm also aware some posts about genuine Lego got caught in the fallout. I'm sorry about that.
Yup, I think its a bit like censorship.Jader1973 said:
However, let me provide some explanation for my actions, none of which were in any way motivated by a desire to upset any particular PHers.
It felt like you were acting as the Police for something that was not your concern to be so worried about.Jader1973 said:
1) Copyright infringement is theft. This is not a slightly wrong looking copy of an Evoke. Change the logo on the box to "Lego" and you would not be able to tell the difference.
Yes, it does look the same but we were not making it, we were not the ones doing the crime we were discussing it.Also, thanks to the thread if the box said Lego on it I would still be able to tell the difference between the two products.
Jader1973 said:
2) Large organisations employ people to protect their brand. For example the company I work for employ people to check the web for counterfeit parts and merchandise. EBay sellers get no warning - they get a letter from our legal dept threatening action. They recently took down a Chinese mob that were selling fake parts in copy OE packaging - worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Yes, that's right but those people "employed by your company" are not you, none of us were involved in the advertising, sale or distribution of the fake Lego and in fact the thread about it was more than a little educational because it shows how the fake stuff is different from the genuine.Jader1973 said:
Ask yourself this: What is better for Haymarket and PistonHeads?
a) Someone flags their concerns about discussion on knock off Lego, which included links to a site you buy it from; and a thread that has both the copy and genuine brand names in the title; points out the parallels to music/film piracy and suggests they review whether it should remain.
The point about the link to Aliexpress is valid, that was over the line as it was a link to where to obtain the Lepin copy Lego.a) Someone flags their concerns about discussion on knock off Lego, which included links to a site you buy it from; and a thread that has both the copy and genuine brand names in the title; points out the parallels to music/film piracy and suggests they review whether it should remain.
Jader1973 said:
Or
b) Haymarket get a letter from Lego's (or God forbid, Disney's) lawyers threatening legal action, at which point who knows how they would react? Close the thread completely? Purge all mention of the other brand? Ban anyone who mentioned it?
As a publishing house Haymarket appear to understand the need for copyright protection. It isn't an issue of good / bad moderation - the site has clear rules around this sort of discussion.
I cant see for the life of me (apart possibly from the Aliexpress link) where Lego/Disney could come after Haymarket, as stated, we are not distributing, advertising or endorsing the knock off stuff. If we were in the pub (which is what discussions on here are a little like) nothing that was posted could have been pursued by the legals. b) Haymarket get a letter from Lego's (or God forbid, Disney's) lawyers threatening legal action, at which point who knows how they would react? Close the thread completely? Purge all mention of the other brand? Ban anyone who mentioned it?
As a publishing house Haymarket appear to understand the need for copyright protection. It isn't an issue of good / bad moderation - the site has clear rules around this sort of discussion.
Its the creeping censorship I object to, the "ohh don't talk about that" attitude that gives fakers the cover they need to operate. I high profile website like PH having a Lepin discussion ought to make Lego/Disney sit up and send the Legals after the actual Fakers, not us having a look at it and passing comment.
Lets not forget the Guy who brought all this up lives in Asia and bought the stuff in a local Shop, not at some illicit night market, not on a shady Silk-Road type website either but in an actual location. Perhaps the copywrite owners might like to get on the case and go and put a stop to it.
Jader1973 said:
I won't object to a thread about the copy stuff provided it doesn't mention Lego in the title. I can't guarantee Lego wouldn't object though. Haymarket as operators of the site have to make that call.
You did though, after requesting the guy took the subject off this thread.Jader1973 said:
And, cheer up you lot! Lego is meant to make us happy !
It does, but if someone comes in and start telling me what toys I can discuss I get cross and might start throwing them around.robemcdonald said:
When you're in a hole....
Anyway here are the posting rules. Please let us know high has been breached.
Posting Rules
Of course you've read our Terms and Conditions as you agreed to them when you signed up but in case your memory isn't great, here are the important bits with regard to posting in the forums.
We restrict new member access to certain forums for a period of 14 days; once that time has passed access will automatically be granted.
If you see any material on our website which you'd like to alert us to, or if you feel you need moderator assistance, please use the 'report' button on the top right of each post and we will be alerted to the reported issue straight away.
If you wish to speak to someone regarding forum conduct or moderation issues please contact the PH Team (support@pistonheads.com)
Do not post material that a reasonable person would find offensive, annoying or upsetting, including personal information (including facebook/twitter/linked-in etc) & amateur sleuthing, nor may you bypass the swear filter.
Do not be argumentative for the sake of it or be deliberately contrary. Do not post links or images which contain pornographic, violent, racist or sexist material or that could be seen as offensive or unlawful in any way.
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PH Team
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At a guess, the highlighted part above. Posting pictures of knock off stuff I personally don't have an issue with, advertising those who sell them, maybe not.Anyway here are the posting rules. Please let us know high has been breached.
Posting Rules
Of course you've read our Terms and Conditions as you agreed to them when you signed up but in case your memory isn't great, here are the important bits with regard to posting in the forums.
We restrict new member access to certain forums for a period of 14 days; once that time has passed access will automatically be granted.
If you see any material on our website which you'd like to alert us to, or if you feel you need moderator assistance, please use the 'report' button on the top right of each post and we will be alerted to the reported issue straight away.
If you wish to speak to someone regarding forum conduct or moderation issues please contact the PH Team (support@pistonheads.com)
Do not post material that a reasonable person would find offensive, annoying or upsetting, including personal information (including facebook/twitter/linked-in etc) & amateur sleuthing, nor may you bypass the swear filter.
Do not be argumentative for the sake of it or be deliberately contrary. Do not post links or images which contain pornographic, violent, racist or sexist material or that could be seen as offensive or unlawful in any way.
Do not post any copyright-protected material without permission including streaming sports content. If in doubt, don't post it.
Do not post or link for the purposes of advertising or personal gain (including cars for sale) or cross-post across multiple forums. If you wish to advertise please use the classifieds or contact us directly. Please note that we do not allow members to advertise their own car in the forums, nor do we allow members to post asking for valuations on their current car (please use the classifieds as a guide).
Do not choose a username which is the same as a company or trading name, nor create multiple profiles or attempt to use any other person's PH log-in to post content without permission or promote charity events, recruit for charitable donations, surveys or seek votes for competitions without permission nor promote events without permission.
Do not name and shame any company with content that could cause reputational damage or that could be deemed as libellous or defamatory.
All matters relating to conduct in the forums and compliance with these posting rules will be determined by the moderators under guidance from PistonHeads HQ. We will take action if these rules are broken so make sure you read them carefully.
PH Team
PistonHeads.com
Edited by robemcdonald on Monday 22 August 07:06
The issue of moderation comes up often, it would be nice to have a courteous post from a moderator explaining why any such posts have been binned but it doesn't see to be the PH way.
There is a website feedback forum to raise these issues in without cluttering up this thread.
I would like to thank the guys that have managed to see the reason why is was posting, and could also see that it was more of an educational exercise than anything else.
I did not say buy this, or even say exactly what the name of the shop was or give a link to aliexpress. If I did those things then I think that would be wrong.
I didn't even know about LEPIN until it was mentioned in this thread a week or so ago. This then prompted me to have a look at our version of gumtree which presented a real bricks and mortar toy shop.
Instead of guys in the UK having it sent to them I thought I'll go and take a look and present my findings. Never did I think it would descend into nonsense by one wannabe forum Police poster.
Anyway I have two more kits to build, but will hold off for a few days as my fingertips hurt after building the camper and modular in two days. I will present the pictures here for those who are interested to see, as you Jader had my thread that I specifically created on your request for these brick models deleted.
Stig, a real live PH mod bloke has said he sees no issue and that's good enough for me.
I did not say buy this, or even say exactly what the name of the shop was or give a link to aliexpress. If I did those things then I think that would be wrong.
I didn't even know about LEPIN until it was mentioned in this thread a week or so ago. This then prompted me to have a look at our version of gumtree which presented a real bricks and mortar toy shop.
Instead of guys in the UK having it sent to them I thought I'll go and take a look and present my findings. Never did I think it would descend into nonsense by one wannabe forum Police poster.
Anyway I have two more kits to build, but will hold off for a few days as my fingertips hurt after building the camper and modular in two days. I will present the pictures here for those who are interested to see, as you Jader had my thread that I specifically created on your request for these brick models deleted.
Stig, a real live PH mod bloke has said he sees no issue and that's good enough for me.
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