Tamiya 1:12 McLaren MP4/6 Rebuild/Upgrade
Discussion
Bit of Deja-va, but I've primed the shell...again.
As usual it's Tamiya White Fine Surface Primer, decanted, degassed and airbrushed to give a thin coat. I find it by far the best primer for light colours; it dries fast, covers really well and dries to a hard eggshell finish which doesn't rub through too easily when flatting (unfortunately - if you, ahem, need to strip it!)
As usual it's Tamiya White Fine Surface Primer, decanted, degassed and airbrushed to give a thin coat. I find it by far the best primer for light colours; it dries fast, covers really well and dries to a hard eggshell finish which doesn't rub through too easily when flatting (unfortunately - if you, ahem, need to strip it!)
I got the Mr.Paint Basic White and RAL Flourescent Red yesterday:
To be honest I'm not very impressed: Despite shaking the bottles for several minutes, and agitating them with a dropper before airbrushing, they are so thin that the white is like spraying milk. Pretty much no depth of pigment even over white primer. I think the red would be spot-on in terms of colour,if I could get enough depth, but it might take litres of the stuff to finish a large car like this. I've used about half a bottle per colour on a test piece, and they are still nowhere near solid colours. Very difficult to get a consistent finish on the red too, since it's impossible to tell how much paint is going on the surface, it's so thin:
At least it shows how different the Tamiya Flourescent red is...
Also noticed this morning a slightly textured finish as if they have attacked the plastic in places. I've since learned that it is apparently quite an aggressive paint. I've sent a message to Mr.Paint asking for advice, but I doubt I will use them again. Certainly not on this model.
Red Firecracker has kindly offered to let me try some Zero McLaren red, so we will see how that compares.
To be honest I'm not very impressed: Despite shaking the bottles for several minutes, and agitating them with a dropper before airbrushing, they are so thin that the white is like spraying milk. Pretty much no depth of pigment even over white primer. I think the red would be spot-on in terms of colour,if I could get enough depth, but it might take litres of the stuff to finish a large car like this. I've used about half a bottle per colour on a test piece, and they are still nowhere near solid colours. Very difficult to get a consistent finish on the red too, since it's impossible to tell how much paint is going on the surface, it's so thin:
At least it shows how different the Tamiya Flourescent red is...
Also noticed this morning a slightly textured finish as if they have attacked the plastic in places. I've since learned that it is apparently quite an aggressive paint. I've sent a message to Mr.Paint asking for advice, but I doubt I will use them again. Certainly not on this model.
Red Firecracker has kindly offered to let me try some Zero McLaren red, so we will see how that compares.
So in the end I've had to resort to trying Zero paint - not much choice left really. I ordered some white and McLaren MP4 red. It's odd stuff for model paint in that it dries matt, and needs a clear coat to get a good finish. Here is a test piece, the right side is basecoat plus clearcoat, straight from the airbrush - pretty dire, but I don't see how to get a better finish on top of a crap basecoat. The left side has had the clearcoat flatted and polished using Tamiya polishing compounds:
That was done yesterday, today the clearcoat has regained its mottled effect due, I guess, to the clearcoat continuing to shrink into the basecoat. I find this process a complete pain in the arse TBH. the number of clearcoats required for flatting back seems to obscure any fine surface details. Surely it's not impossible to produce gloss paint of the correct colour?
The other thing is that despite it apparently being "colour matched" I don't think it's the right colour: To my eyes, and memory, it's not anywhere near flourescent enough. I'm guessing it was actually "matched" to museum exhibits that have faded over the years. Ironically, Zero do RAL3024 - the correct paint - to order, for the same price. Since within reasonable limits I'm only interested in getting models right rather than how much they cost, I've ordered some of that too. At the end of the day I'll select the best compromise that matches the best decal insignia I've got. No point using 3024 if the red decals stick out like a sore thumb.
That was done yesterday, today the clearcoat has regained its mottled effect due, I guess, to the clearcoat continuing to shrink into the basecoat. I find this process a complete pain in the arse TBH. the number of clearcoats required for flatting back seems to obscure any fine surface details. Surely it's not impossible to produce gloss paint of the correct colour?
The other thing is that despite it apparently being "colour matched" I don't think it's the right colour: To my eyes, and memory, it's not anywhere near flourescent enough. I'm guessing it was actually "matched" to museum exhibits that have faded over the years. Ironically, Zero do RAL3024 - the correct paint - to order, for the same price. Since within reasonable limits I'm only interested in getting models right rather than how much they cost, I've ordered some of that too. At the end of the day I'll select the best compromise that matches the best decal insignia I've got. No point using 3024 if the red decals stick out like a sore thumb.
Have you tried going to a proper car paint supplier? I used to use one in Loughborough when I was at uni called T.R.I who were a car bodyshop supplier, they would mix paint up to whatever reference you wanted, either in a tin for spraying or they would put it in a spray can and were loads cheaper than all these specialist "model paint" suppliers, who are basically using the same kit just charging 10x as much for it in tiny bottles..
Edited by lufbramatt on Monday 14th March 08:30
lufbramatt said:
Have you tried going to a proper car paint supplier? I used to use one in Loughborough when I was at uni called T.R.I who were a car bodyshop supplier, they would mix paint up to whatever reference you wanted, either in a tin for spraying or they would put it in a spray can and were loads cheaper than all these specialist "model paint" suppliers, who are basically using the same kit just charging 10x as much for it in tiny bottles..
I've not, but If I could get RAL3024 in the same paint type and gloss as, say, Halford appliance Gloss White, it might make things easier. Thinking about it, IIRC Halford do mix paints for spraying. Not sure whether flourescent paints are usually matt to get better coverage. Last time I used Humbrol gloss flourescent orange (about 25 years ago!) it covered very poorly.Edited by lufbramatt on Monday 14th March 08:30
Thanks for the advice/idea though - I may end up using that in the end.
I guess this is why your models look the way they do, as the rest of us put up with 1st or 2nd attempts at doing something on a model!
I have a Minichamps M23 model which I think the McLaren red parts are replicated with a decal. Is there anything like that available that you could put lacquer on to blend it in with the gloss white parts.
I suspect the finish on this kit will look far better than it ever did on the real F1 car.
I have a Minichamps M23 model which I think the McLaren red parts are replicated with a decal. Is there anything like that available that you could put lacquer on to blend it in with the gloss white parts.
I suspect the finish on this kit will look far better than it ever did on the real F1 car.
Been lurking on the sidelines here of an interesting build. I've had Rustoleum mixed to RAL colours before & just done a quick google. This one comes up but 3024 looks pretty red to me!
http://abingtondecoratingsupplies.co.uk/shop/store...
http://abingtondecoratingsupplies.co.uk/shop/store...
EagleMoto4-2 said:
I guess this is why your models look the way they do, as the rest of us put up with 1st or 2nd attempts at doing something on a model!
I have a Minichamps M23 model which I think the McLaren red parts are replicated with a decal. Is there anything like that available that you could put lacquer on to blend it in with the gloss white parts.
I suspect the finish on this kit will look far better than it ever did on the real F1 car.
ha ha, I think it's just bad luck I chose a notoriously tricky McLaren scheme to start the 1:12 collection. It can only get easier with the Ferrari and Williams...right?I have a Minichamps M23 model which I think the McLaren red parts are replicated with a decal. Is there anything like that available that you could put lacquer on to blend it in with the gloss white parts.
I suspect the finish on this kit will look far better than it ever did on the real F1 car.
I built two 1:20 Tamiya Marlboro McLarens in the distant past, and they both have decals for the red parts of the scheme. I was never convinced of the shade, but I will be able to compare them with the RAL paint I guess.
These three F1 cars are a labour of love for me, having experienced them in their heyday. Again, my - admittedly error prone - memory of the original scheme isn't helping me very much, since it's telling me one thing, the paint is telling me another. My photos are useless too, because they don't show the flourescence very well.
It'll get sorted in the end.
tr7v8 said:
Been lurking on the sidelines here of an interesting build. I've had Rustoleum mixed to RAL colours before & just done a quick google. This one comes up but 3024 looks pretty red to me!
http://abingtondecoratingsupplies.co.uk/shop/store...
Then again 3018, 3022 and 3024 look identical on my laptop. I wouldn't rely on a computer image for the shade.http://abingtondecoratingsupplies.co.uk/shop/store...
The Mr.Paint RAL3024 looked about right to me in the bottle, pity transferring it to the model proved pretty much impossible. Will be interesting (sort of) to compare it with the Zero 3024. I'll do a test strip of Zero MP4, Zero RAL, Tamiya and Mr. Paint RAL and see what's what.
At least all this gives me something to complain about
dr_gn said:
ha ha, I think it's just bad luck I chose a notoriously tricky McLaren scheme to start the 1:12 collection. It can only get easier with the Ferrari and Williams...right?
I built two 1:20 Tamiya Marlboro McLarens in the distant past, and they both have decals for the red parts of the scheme. I was never convinced of the shade, but I will be able to compare them with the RAL paint I guess.
These three F1 cars are a labour of love for me, having experienced them in their heyday. Again, my - admittedly error prone - memory of the original scheme isn't helping me very much, since it's telling me one thing, the paint is telling me another. My photos are useless too, because they don't show the flourescence very well.
It'll get sorted in the end.
The Ferrari yes, the Williams no as that has 3 different colours to contend with in its paint scheme!I built two 1:20 Tamiya Marlboro McLarens in the distant past, and they both have decals for the red parts of the scheme. I was never convinced of the shade, but I will be able to compare them with the RAL paint I guess.
These three F1 cars are a labour of love for me, having experienced them in their heyday. Again, my - admittedly error prone - memory of the original scheme isn't helping me very much, since it's telling me one thing, the paint is telling me another. My photos are useless too, because they don't show the flourescence very well.
It'll get sorted in the end.
You are right though, the fluorescence doesn't show up very well in photo's, no doubt because specialist inks would need to be used in the printer used by the book publisher.
One thing I wondered was how long you had left the paint to dry before polishing. If you had left it longer it might not have gone back to the dull finish.
EDIT
Remembered I had this photo of the 1992 McLaren that I took at Silverstone. The fluorescence seems to show up quite well.
Edited by EagleMoto4-2 on Tuesday 15th March 14:22
caterhamnut said:
Some pictures I took somewhere in Woking 
I was practically shaking at the history in the 'room'.....
Some of the 'fluro' orange is visible in some shots - other angles of the same cars show red - notoriously difficult to capture...
Oh My God, I could spend hours in there taking it all in!!I was practically shaking at the history in the 'room'.....
Some of the 'fluro' orange is visible in some shots - other angles of the same cars show red - notoriously difficult to capture...
EagleMoto4-2 said:
dr_gn said:
ha ha, I think it's just bad luck I chose a notoriously tricky McLaren scheme to start the 1:12 collection. It can only get easier with the Ferrari and Williams...right?
I built two 1:20 Tamiya Marlboro McLarens in the distant past, and they both have decals for the red parts of the scheme. I was never convinced of the shade, but I will be able to compare them with the RAL paint I guess.
These three F1 cars are a labour of love for me, having experienced them in their heyday. Again, my - admittedly error prone - memory of the original scheme isn't helping me very much, since it's telling me one thing, the paint is telling me another. My photos are useless too, because they don't show the flourescence very well.
It'll get sorted in the end.
The Ferrari yes, the Williams no as that has 3 different colours to contend with in its paint scheme!I built two 1:20 Tamiya Marlboro McLarens in the distant past, and they both have decals for the red parts of the scheme. I was never convinced of the shade, but I will be able to compare them with the RAL paint I guess.
These three F1 cars are a labour of love for me, having experienced them in their heyday. Again, my - admittedly error prone - memory of the original scheme isn't helping me very much, since it's telling me one thing, the paint is telling me another. My photos are useless too, because they don't show the flourescence very well.
It'll get sorted in the end.
You are right though, the fluorescence doesn't show up very well in photo's, no doubt because specialist inks would need to be used in the printer used by the book publisher.
One thing I wondered was how long you had left the paint to dry before polishing. If you had left it longer it might not have gone back to the dull finish.
EDIT
Remembered I had this photo of the 1992 McLaren that I took at Silverstone. The fluorescence seems to show up quite well.
Edited by EagleMoto4-2 on Tuesday 15th March 14:22
caterhamnut said:
Some pictures I took somewhere in Woking
I was practically shaking at the history in the 'room'.....
Some of the 'fluro' orange is visible in some shots - other angles of the same cars show red - notoriously difficult to capture...
The second image, on the rear wing of the MP4/9 car shows pretty much exactly how I remember it looking.I was practically shaking at the history in the 'room'.....
Some of the 'fluro' orange is visible in some shots - other angles of the same cars show red - notoriously difficult to capture...
Ta.
ETA I took this one of the MP4/6 at F1 testing in '91 - just shows how photographs can't be trusted:
Tamiya red looks like it would be spot-on based on that.
Edited by dr_gn on Tuesday 15th March 15:37
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