Armour modelling pointers sought

[jamieduff1981]

Hello all,

I'm after some advice from experienced armour modellers if anyone's willing. I'd like to think I was able to avoid humiliating myself with aircraft and ship models but have never, ever built a tank.

Now I have a fairly pressing need to get one built. It need not win any competitions, it just needs to not embarrass me - or rather, it needs to show off the paints nicely.

I've gone for Tamiya's late Jagdpanther (the same as this):



mainly because it's in a 3 colour camoflage scheme which shows off more colours.

The thing is that I could work out how to paint and assemble everything slowly but I'm pressed for time and don't want to waste any needlessly. Our first trade show is at the end of April and I've got tonnes of other stuff to do to be ready for then.

If anyone can offer any general advice on temporary assembly, camoflage painting, disassembly, detail painting, reassembly, weathering type steps you usually follow for armour I'd be very grateful.

In lieu of anything else to guide me I'll probably dry assemble the hull to paint the camoflage and paint the wheels and gun on the sprues.

[Prolex-UK]

Are you looking to show the jagdpanther?

I am half way through doing one myself. It's a late war version so base coat is the green. They left the factory like that with the unit doing camo either spraying or using a brush

Will you be weathering it ?

[dr_gn]

I don't understand - why do you want to temporarily assemble it, then disassemble it, then re-assemble it again?

[jamieduff1981]

Prolex-UK said:

Are you looking to show the jagdpanther?

I am half way through doing one myself. It's a late war version so base coat is the green. They left the factory like that with the unit doing camo either spraying or using a brush

Will you be weathering it ?

Hi there. Yes that's the intention. I'd like to do a decent OOB build with some weathering. I'll park it next to the Tamiya Spitfire I posted on here recently as well as one of my battleships.

We have a little paint company and would like to just have an aviation, naval and armour point of interest on the trade table to show from a distance that we cover all three without having to come up and read the colour charts or paint names.

Would you suggest just spraying in Dunkelgrun and then freehanding the camo with a fine nozzle or soft masking or what?

Any thoughts on what to paint when during assembly?

[jamieduff1981]

dr_gn said:

I don't understand - why do you want to temporarily assemble it, then disassemble it, then re-assemble it again?

Well I don't really want to. I just want to make sure the dispruptive pattern camo lines up across all the major components whilst simplifying the detail painting as far as possible - that's why I'm asking veteren armour modellers how they usually go about it

[Prolex-UK]

Not saying my way is right but I tend to try to replicate how the real thing was painted.

I tend to paint it in red primer all over once the major parts are together then spray the top coat over that. So on closer examination parts semi covered are left red ( rear of wheels underside etc) then you have choice to airbrush camo on top with tools fitted or not the choice is yours...

Could go on for hours ....

[IroningMan]

As per the post above, late in the war the red-brown was just red oxide primer as the Germans were short of paint, so that should be the base colour.

The only bits you need to paint separately are those that will be hard to reach when assembled - road wheels tyres, for example, or tools or other stowage that wouldn't get painted on the real thing.

AFVs benefit a lot from highlight and lowlight weathering - buff the paint on the contact areas and high spots, and use a dark wash to emphasise the hatches, fasteners and joints - otherwise they look like plastic blobs.

Tracks are my bugbear: new/spare links will be painted black or grey, but the running tracks will be light rust coloured and never clean. Think railway rails. The contact patches inside - where the road wheels run - and out - the high points that contact the road - will be shiny gunmetal. Above all you need to make them sit right - on the Panther each link weighs something like 30kg...

Here's one I prepared earlier:









Albeit in 1:48, which is rather more forgiving than 1:35.

I used sand as the base colour - right for the slightly earlier period, and I don't own an airbrush. Didn't get the tracks quite right, but I ran out of patience with them.

[dr_gn]

jamieduff1981 said:

dr_gn said:

I don't understand - why do you want to temporarily assemble it, then disassemble it, then re-assemble it again?

Well I don't really want to. I just want to make sure the dispruptive pattern camo lines up across all the major components whilst simplifying the detail painting as far as possible - that's why I'm asking veteren armour modellers how they usually go about it

I see. I guess if you want a method of temporarily assembling parts, a small amount of PVA would be an option?

[jamieduff1981]

That's a great help gents, thank you. The tracks were something I had been concerned about but I think I know where I'm going now. Is there any particular knack for painting the rubbery Tamiya tracks?

And PVA could be a good should Doc, thanks Use it all the time on warships so have a ready supply.

I'll get started on this this evening.

[wolfracesonic]

I've recently built some WW11 1/35 armour with my Godson, the first in about 30 years and I got to wondering about camouflage painting. Would tank troops have bothered removing cables, tools, spare track links etc before applying new paint schemes? I don't think I'd be to fussed if I knew there was a possibility I was going to get incinerated in a metal coffin any time.

[IroningMan]

wolfracesonic said:

I've recently built some WW11 1/35 armour with my Godson, the first in about 30 years and I got to wondering about camouflage painting. Would tank troops have bothered removing cables, tools, spare track links etc before applying new paint schemes? I don't think I'd be to fussed if I knew there was a possibility I was going to get incinerated in a metal coffin any time.

Depends on the standing orders in place for their unit at the time, and whether the vehicles were being painted in the field - the majority didn't last long enough to need a respray...

Externally stowed kit tends to go walkabout often, too, and would you try to coil and re-stow the tow cable paint side up after using it? Fundamentally, though, I think a scale model looks better with the details picked out than looking as if it's just survived an attack from a squaddie with a bucket of paint and a broom.

[wolfracesonic]

IroningMan said:

wolfracesonic said:

I've recently built some WW11 1/35 armour with my Godson, the first in about 30 years and I got to wondering about camouflage painting. Would tank troops have bothered removing cables, tools, spare track links etc before applying new paint schemes? I don't think I'd be to fussed if I knew there was a possibility I was going to get incinerated in a metal coffin any time.

Depends on the standing orders in place for their unit at the time, and whether the vehicles were being painted in the field - the majority didn't last long enough to need a respray...

Externally stowed kit tends to go walkabout often, too, and would you try to coil and re-stow the tow cable paint side up after using it? Fundamentally, though, I think a scale model looks better with the details picked out than looking as if it's just survived an attack from a squaddie with a bucket of paint and a broom.

I bet that was the reality, standing orders or not. I doubt there where many troopers who stood back and wondered 'Mmmmmm, I'm not sure if that's quite the correct shade of Dunkelgelb. This could cause confusion for armour modellers 70 years down the line

[dr_gn]

IroningMan said:

wolfracesonic said:

I've recently built some WW11 1/35 armour with my Godson, the first in about 30 years and I got to wondering about camouflage painting. Would tank troops have bothered removing cables, tools, spare track links etc before applying new paint schemes? I don't think I'd be to fussed if I knew there was a possibility I was going to get incinerated in a metal coffin any time.

Fundamentally, though, I think a scale model looks better with the details picked out than looking as if it's just survived an attack from a squaddie with a bucket of paint and a broom.

I agree, D-Day stripes are a common topic of conversation when it comes to how sharp the demarcation lines are, since some were apparently applied by brush, with no masking. The fact is that all the models I've seen which have the stripes represented like this (i.e. painted freehand) just end up looking like the modeller can't paint.

[IroningMan]

dr_gn said:

I agree, D-Day stripes are a common topic of conversation when it comes to how sharp the demarcation lines are, since some were apparently applied by brush, with no masking. The fact is that all the models I've seen which have the stripes represented like this (i.e. painted freehand) just end up looking like the modeller can't paint.

I'm sure I've seen pictures of a diorama somewhere - might have been one of the ones Francois Verlinden did in 1:48 for Monogram - showing groundcrew getting a dressing-down for making a pig's ear of invasion stripes.

[dr_gn]

IroningMan said:

dr_gn said:

I agree, D-Day stripes are a common topic of conversation when it comes to how sharp the demarcation lines are, since some were apparently applied by brush, with no masking. The fact is that all the models I've seen which have the stripes represented like this (i.e. painted freehand) just end up looking like the modeller can't paint.

I'm sure I've seen pictures of a diorama somewhere - might have been one of the ones Francois Verlinden did in 1:48 for Monogram - showing groundcrew getting a dressing-down for making a pig's ear of invasion stripes.

I guess if it's put into context like that in a diorama it's not so bad, assuming people "get" it.

[jamieduff1981]

I agree. It looks better / more realistic if applied neatly and then carefully messed up than it does applied at freehand at 35,48 or 72x zoom.

[wolfracesonic]

And another thing, does anyone know why the Germans had allsorts of fancy camo' schemes, with stripes, dots, multiple colours etc. whereas Allied vehicles seemed to be any colour as long as it's solid Olive drab?

[jamieduff1981]

Not sure - but after the Battle of Britain the Germans seemed to focus a great deal of effort in to developing vomit-inducing colour schemes. Well, they went through a period bland greys then just tried to fight back with minging colours!

A bit like their cars which were all grey until last year when they turned metallic brown.