Preventative maintenance for the electrics... how?
Discussion
So I've decided to run my 2013 car to 200,000 miles. It's just clocked past 50k miles so we're already over of a quarter of the way there. I figure that keeping on top of things with regular servicing and generally looking after the car should see the hardware reach 200k, but the bit I'm concerned about is the electrics.
Everything seems to be run by a computer, other than having it plugged into a diagnostics machine at each service I can't really come up with a way to figure out whether anything is wrong with this myriad of witchcraft and magic.
To date I've had no faults with the car, everything has been flawless and all runs smoothly but one day, I imagine I'll go to start the car but the computer will say no. It's not something I loose sleep over, but it would be nice to know of any ways to minimise the chances of a massive and expensive electrical gremlin getting hold of the reins. Surely this is something that will affect all modern cars. Anyone got any ideas?
Everything seems to be run by a computer, other than having it plugged into a diagnostics machine at each service I can't really come up with a way to figure out whether anything is wrong with this myriad of witchcraft and magic.
To date I've had no faults with the car, everything has been flawless and all runs smoothly but one day, I imagine I'll go to start the car but the computer will say no. It's not something I loose sleep over, but it would be nice to know of any ways to minimise the chances of a massive and expensive electrical gremlin getting hold of the reins. Surely this is something that will affect all modern cars. Anyone got any ideas?
Other than the usual stuff of keeping it warm and dry - which applies generally to the whole vehicle, I wouldn't worry about it unduly.
In the 200K life, you'll probably have to replace the coils & alternator once each. Maybe the starter motor.
All the ECUs should be fine.
Lambda sensor may need replacing too (if petrol) at some point.
The odd sensor or relay here & there - but it should be mostly fine.
Pretty likely you'll need a complete new set of suspension bushes and track rods end as well, at some point - but you might get away with it.
In the 200K life, you'll probably have to replace the coils & alternator once each. Maybe the starter motor.
All the ECUs should be fine.
Lambda sensor may need replacing too (if petrol) at some point.
The odd sensor or relay here & there - but it should be mostly fine.
Pretty likely you'll need a complete new set of suspension bushes and track rods end as well, at some point - but you might get away with it.
Electrics are much, much better than they used to be - with a couple of exceptions. In my experience it tends to be sensors or sensor related issues that can cause mayhem as a vehicle gets older - so things like temp/position/airflow measuring/lambda, etc. in the engine bay (any of these on the fritz will cause an EML light/fault code - but not always). ABS sensors can pack up - some cars seems to 'eat' them at an alarming rate - and much of the car's speed, traction control, etc. all often run off this circuit.
The major advantage now is that you will generally get a fault code flag when the system is interrogated by either a cheapo ebay reader fr more generic issues or a manufacturer specific one for some of the more complex issues. This then lets you zero into the area that is causing the trouble - and hopefully fixing the issue in a targeted way rather than swapping over bits and bobs by an (expensive) process of elimination. Invest in a cheap OBD reader from Ebay for the simple stuff - it will pay for itself on many occasions.
I wouldn't worry too much about electrics over any other system on the car, after all - if you live in a house you expect a few bulbs to blow now and then. Fix and replace as and when it happens.
Besides.... there's bucket-loads of WORSE things on modern cars waiting to empty your wallet....
The major advantage now is that you will generally get a fault code flag when the system is interrogated by either a cheapo ebay reader fr more generic issues or a manufacturer specific one for some of the more complex issues. This then lets you zero into the area that is causing the trouble - and hopefully fixing the issue in a targeted way rather than swapping over bits and bobs by an (expensive) process of elimination. Invest in a cheap OBD reader from Ebay for the simple stuff - it will pay for itself on many occasions.
I wouldn't worry too much about electrics over any other system on the car, after all - if you live in a house you expect a few bulbs to blow now and then. Fix and replace as and when it happens.
Besides.... there's bucket-loads of WORSE things on modern cars waiting to empty your wallet....
LandRoverManiac said:
In my experience it tends to be sensors or sensor related issues that can cause mayhem as a vehicle gets older
Any idea what causes a sensor to give up the ghost? As a non-mechanical component, I find it difficult with my pea brain to understand why they wear out and fail over time. Unless water gets in and gradually corrodes away more the more delicate workings of course. My previous car had a thermostat sensor fail, was most annoying as it kept the fan running and subsquently ran the battery flat. Previous car to that had an immobiliser play up, worked very well as an immobiliser as we couldn't move the vehicle for about a week. Prior to that I had a Christmas tree light up on my dashboard up in Cumbria once, switched the ignition off, left it for a few moments and switched it all back on, no signs of trouble anywhere else and hasn't played up in the 7 years since. Mystery these electrics.
No idea how you'd "maintain" the electrics. Lube the electrons perhaps? 
Seriously though. It's the electro-mechanical bits that are maintainable. Like the alternator and starter motor. But again very few people would preventatively maintain these. Alternator bearings fail but more from the grease drying out - more an age thing. Starter motor, brushes usually wear out. But maybe they will last for 200k - after all doing that sort of mileage in a short timespan means long journeys, so the number of "starts per mile" is low...
Seriously though. It's the electro-mechanical bits that are maintainable. Like the alternator and starter motor. But again very few people would preventatively maintain these. Alternator bearings fail but more from the grease drying out - more an age thing. Starter motor, brushes usually wear out. But maybe they will last for 200k - after all doing that sort of mileage in a short timespan means long journeys, so the number of "starts per mile" is low...
Muddle238 said:
LandRoverManiac said:
In my experience it tends to be sensors or sensor related issues that can cause mayhem as a vehicle gets older
Any idea what causes a sensor to give up the ghost? As a non-mechanical component, I find it difficult with my pea brain to understand why they wear out and fail over time. Unless water gets in and gradually corrodes away more the more delicate workings of course. My previous car had a thermostat sensor fail, was most annoying as it kept the fan running and subsquently ran the battery flat. Previous car to that had an immobiliser play up, worked very well as an immobiliser as we couldn't move the vehicle for about a week. Prior to that I had a Christmas tree light up on my dashboard up in Cumbria once, switched the ignition off, left it for a few moments and switched it all back on, no signs of trouble anywhere else and hasn't played up in the 7 years since. Mystery these electrics.
Some cars have particular sensors that fail far more frequently. Usually that means shoddy design of the original part. Replacement parts often don't fare much better.
Where electrics and electronics fail most often are:
1) Sensors interacting with hot/vibrating or corrosive elements (such as exhaust sensors)
2) Wiring that is subjected to high vibrational loads wears most
3) Connectors that are poorly specified for their use
In terms of preventative maintenance you can check connectors that aren't overly covered in mud or aren't looking like they are coming un-done and check wiring harnesses haven't moved out of their intended routing that might subject them to more loading.
And that's about it.
There is no magic or voodoo here, just basic physics.
1) Sensors interacting with hot/vibrating or corrosive elements (such as exhaust sensors)
2) Wiring that is subjected to high vibrational loads wears most
3) Connectors that are poorly specified for their use
In terms of preventative maintenance you can check connectors that aren't overly covered in mud or aren't looking like they are coming un-done and check wiring harnesses haven't moved out of their intended routing that might subject them to more loading.
And that's about it.
There is no magic or voodoo here, just basic physics.
As above really, you'd have to be proper OCD but regularily check for chafing, badly routed wiring, missing clips etc and you could even try using some of this in the exposed connectors?
http://www.acf-50.co.uk/corrosion_block.htm
http://www.acf-50.co.uk/corrosion_block.htm
I would say to check for potential water ingress. Make sure drain holes and scuttles are clear of crud, and grommets are in tact.
My bike starter recently failed - a piece of magnet came loose and disintegrated. It's hard to do preventative maintenance on that sort of thing with out scheduled strip downs.
Good luck with it.
Ian
My bike starter recently failed - a piece of magnet came loose and disintegrated. It's hard to do preventative maintenance on that sort of thing with out scheduled strip downs.
Good luck with it.
Ian
I have restored a car with 35 year old electrics, I can tell you this much:
When I got the car in 1999 I sprayed all the underbonnet connections with WD40, plus the "fuseable link" box on the inner wing. Any exposed wires were also coated (stuff below the chassis rails, like radiator sensor and indicator wires) plus had their shrouds properly sealed and pushed into place. This was checked & redone every year by taking 3 hours out of one Sunday in October.
As an example, the donor car which I used one (which I'd owned since 1991 but neglected) had oxidised all the connections and as such the loom was almost scrap.
The elements are your biggest enemy, and by shielding the wires from that by spending a bit of money and time will prevent problems in the future. I believe there is "inbuilt obsolescence" in many car parts these days so you'll no doubt have to replace a few sensors over time, but the actual loom inside the car will be fine but just bear in mind the exposed areas, plus brake lines etc.
When I got the car in 1999 I sprayed all the underbonnet connections with WD40, plus the "fuseable link" box on the inner wing. Any exposed wires were also coated (stuff below the chassis rails, like radiator sensor and indicator wires) plus had their shrouds properly sealed and pushed into place. This was checked & redone every year by taking 3 hours out of one Sunday in October.
As an example, the donor car which I used one (which I'd owned since 1991 but neglected) had oxidised all the connections and as such the loom was almost scrap.
The elements are your biggest enemy, and by shielding the wires from that by spending a bit of money and time will prevent problems in the future. I believe there is "inbuilt obsolescence" in many car parts these days so you'll no doubt have to replace a few sensors over time, but the actual loom inside the car will be fine but just bear in mind the exposed areas, plus brake lines etc.
Unplug connectors, clean and spray with WD40 to keep water out and stop them corroding.
Above all, use the vehicle regularly. Speak to anyone with a modern luxury car that doesnt use it very much (I can think of one particular offshore worker I know) and they will tell you that standing for long periods makes electronics go senile. Don't ask me why though!
Above all, use the vehicle regularly. Speak to anyone with a modern luxury car that doesnt use it very much (I can think of one particular offshore worker I know) and they will tell you that standing for long periods makes electronics go senile. Don't ask me why though!
Avoid driving through deep puddles.
My commute takes me down a pretty poor quality back road which fills with water when it rains. The amount of cars I follow that just plough through standing water when there is no oncoming traffic amazes me. Must be that childhood obsession of splashing in muddy puddles!
All that water forced into the wheel arches and front grills at high pressure can't be good. As long as the road is clear I simply steer round them.
My commute takes me down a pretty poor quality back road which fills with water when it rains. The amount of cars I follow that just plough through standing water when there is no oncoming traffic amazes me. Must be that childhood obsession of splashing in muddy puddles!
All that water forced into the wheel arches and front grills at high pressure can't be good. As long as the road is clear I simply steer round them.
silver1011 said:
All that water forced into the wheel arches and front grills at high pressure can't be good. As long as the road is clear I simply steer round them.
I'm sure there was a thread on here at some point about an Astra sitting in floodwater with a missing rear bumper.. apparently the driver drove a bit fast into a flood and the rear bumper acted like a scoop, ending up in it beind ripped off! People underestimate the power of standing water.. ..that's no way to get a car to 200k!
As a (not very good, hence why I don't do it any more) electronic engineer, I'd say use it. Two things that kill electronics. Time and damp. If you carry on with that mileage the car won't stand and get damp and it will get to 200k before time has it's effect (time is mostly down to heat/cool cycles making plastics go brittle and metal joints between solder and copper weaken, so along with vibrations from running they snap).
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