Grandma advice please.
Discussion
My grandma is 91, has a full set of marbles but is a bit infirm, my mum and auntie have ended up as full time carers since she had a blood clot in her arm about a year ago, she was going blind as well but a cataract op mercifully gave her some sight back.
They go morning and night, she has maybe a couple of hours on her own, its been a year full on (lower level before but still quite a lot) and neither my mum or auntie has had a day off really, it is pretty full on as she is quite fussy, putting it mildly !
One goes and gets her up, gets her breakfast does various jobs like cleaning and admin type stuff, then her lunch comes (meals on wheels) and it is always late, then she insists on one of the putting it out, she wont let the meals and wheels folk do it "they might have not washed their hands", but really its because they do gravy and extra veg, so from getting there at say eight they get away at two pm or later for their lunch. Then in the evening starts at four, and they end up leaving having got her to be at say 11.
I think it is getting to them as she constantly moans about this and that, nothing, cribs about them using the milk, she is lovely really but just chunners on and pisses them off, a year of every day, my dad is hanging on at work as no point retiring as my mum is looking after her mum until further notice, we have seen this before where a child looked after an elderley parent who popped of and then she went for a hip op so she could go travelling and she dropped dead. She could live another ten years, I think it quite selfish to be honest to expect both of her daughters to do this free, indefinitely, without a day off.
My mum intimated that she would like me to suggest that she pays (she gets an allowance for this but banks it) but how do I broach that and what are the options, I dont want to see her in an old folks home, anyone had a similar situation ?
They go morning and night, she has maybe a couple of hours on her own, its been a year full on (lower level before but still quite a lot) and neither my mum or auntie has had a day off really, it is pretty full on as she is quite fussy, putting it mildly !
One goes and gets her up, gets her breakfast does various jobs like cleaning and admin type stuff, then her lunch comes (meals on wheels) and it is always late, then she insists on one of the putting it out, she wont let the meals and wheels folk do it "they might have not washed their hands", but really its because they do gravy and extra veg, so from getting there at say eight they get away at two pm or later for their lunch. Then in the evening starts at four, and they end up leaving having got her to be at say 11.
I think it is getting to them as she constantly moans about this and that, nothing, cribs about them using the milk, she is lovely really but just chunners on and pisses them off, a year of every day, my dad is hanging on at work as no point retiring as my mum is looking after her mum until further notice, we have seen this before where a child looked after an elderley parent who popped of and then she went for a hip op so she could go travelling and she dropped dead. She could live another ten years, I think it quite selfish to be honest to expect both of her daughters to do this free, indefinitely, without a day off.
My mum intimated that she would like me to suggest that she pays (she gets an allowance for this but banks it) but how do I broach that and what are the options, I dont want to see her in an old folks home, anyone had a similar situation ?
Continual caring can be draining.
There are self help groups. My wife took our next door neighbour under her wing (she tends to collect them) when she was infirm. She wasn't expected to live more than a few months but she was a game old bird and stuck two fingers up at the grim reaper. My wife would chat to her about what was going on locally but the old girl would always talk about the same period of time, when she was in India before the war with her husband, a high-up in the army. It fascinated me but I only heard the same story a couple of times. With regular visits it must have been a strain. There was also the problem with repeated questions: 'Where do you live?' 'Next door.' 'With Mr Tomson?' 'No, he moved out fifteen years ago. I've been living there since. You know, with [repeat kids names].' 'Oh, yes. Of course. Your husband rides a bicycle. My Henry rode a bicycle in India.' 'I know, you told me.' 'There was that time when . . . [long story while my wife cleared up and cooked for her]' Long period of silence. 'Where do you live?'
Her sole offspring, a son, lived near Manchester, and got down frequently with wife and son. She would not leave the house as she believed (probably correctly) that her son would kidnap her and keep her in the special granny anex he had built at his house. Lovely chap, but frustrated as to what to do.
My wife began to feel the strain and I looked into a local group for carers.
They organised professionals to give advice and help, and the group could organise 'days off' where one carer would fit another one in during a day, so allowing the normal carer to have a free day. They were very professional. There was a charge, not much, for membership. I'd got all the documentation, visited the group, and was about to broach the subject to my wife when the old girl was taken into hospital where she died after a couple of days, keeping going long enough for her family to attend. I don't know what my wife would have said but to me it seemed a reasonable response. I didn't feel guilty about what I'd done.
There is a lot that local authorities can do. These groups can show you options and point you in the right direction. I would assume that it might be a pleasant evening chatting to one another about the problems.
There are self help groups. My wife took our next door neighbour under her wing (she tends to collect them) when she was infirm. She wasn't expected to live more than a few months but she was a game old bird and stuck two fingers up at the grim reaper. My wife would chat to her about what was going on locally but the old girl would always talk about the same period of time, when she was in India before the war with her husband, a high-up in the army. It fascinated me but I only heard the same story a couple of times. With regular visits it must have been a strain. There was also the problem with repeated questions: 'Where do you live?' 'Next door.' 'With Mr Tomson?' 'No, he moved out fifteen years ago. I've been living there since. You know, with [repeat kids names].' 'Oh, yes. Of course. Your husband rides a bicycle. My Henry rode a bicycle in India.' 'I know, you told me.' 'There was that time when . . . [long story while my wife cleared up and cooked for her]' Long period of silence. 'Where do you live?'
Her sole offspring, a son, lived near Manchester, and got down frequently with wife and son. She would not leave the house as she believed (probably correctly) that her son would kidnap her and keep her in the special granny anex he had built at his house. Lovely chap, but frustrated as to what to do.
My wife began to feel the strain and I looked into a local group for carers.
They organised professionals to give advice and help, and the group could organise 'days off' where one carer would fit another one in during a day, so allowing the normal carer to have a free day. They were very professional. There was a charge, not much, for membership. I'd got all the documentation, visited the group, and was about to broach the subject to my wife when the old girl was taken into hospital where she died after a couple of days, keeping going long enough for her family to attend. I don't know what my wife would have said but to me it seemed a reasonable response. I didn't feel guilty about what I'd done.
There is a lot that local authorities can do. These groups can show you options and point you in the right direction. I would assume that it might be a pleasant evening chatting to one another about the problems.
Shinobi said:
How long did she look after them when they were little?
Sounds as if she's lonely.
Well, obviously she looked after them until about sixteen, my mum stayed at her grans when they got their own house, but that said, my mum looked after two kids for years as well, I dont think it is obligatory to sacrifice your every waking hour. She has been retired a year and a half and went from full time work to this, every day with no chance of a proper break, no holidays, cant really go anywhere, just doesnt seem fair really, she is a trooper, as is my auntie but this is above and beyond, she had years of sorting things out when my grandad was alive but infirm as well, whilst they were both still working.Sounds as if she's lonely.
She shuns any kind of pensioners club she has been offered, the one friend she had, her old next door neighbour she is not interested in meeting up with, myself and my brother visit once a week but she would never think to call us if we didnt, she is quite self contained really.
FredAstaire said:
Pay?! Out of pocket expenses, maybe.
But pay?
Neither are interested in being paid, it really isnt a money thing, its a time thing.But pay?
Pothole said:
They've made rods for their own backs. There is no reason why they need to be there for that long every day. They need to have a frank discussion with the old dear and take some steps back. She won't die for lack of extra veg and gravy.
Have said the same, bit of tough love required, she has finally caved on having the meals delivered frozen so my mum/auntie can sort them out rather than waiting for the meals on wheels bloke, who to be fair is run ragged and at the mercy of the traffic, weather and delivering food to people who dont see anyone else and want a chat. She did seem to listen when I suggested the frozen meals as it was cheaper and she could have it on tine and choose what she wanted day by day but it was a hard sell !Derek Smith said:
Continual caring can be draining.
There are self help groups. My wife took our next door neighbour under her wing (she tends to collect them) when she was infirm. She wasn't expected to live more than a few months but she was a game old bird and stuck two fingers up at the grim reaper. My wife would chat to her about what was going on locally but the old girl would always talk about the same period of time, when she was in India before the war with her husband, a high-up in the army. It fascinated me but I only heard the same story a couple of times. With regular visits it must have been a strain. There was also the problem with repeated questions: 'Where do you live?' 'Next door.' 'With Mr Tomson?' 'No, he moved out fifteen years ago. I've been living there since. You know, with [repeat kids names].' 'Oh, yes. Of course. Your husband rides a bicycle. My Henry rode a bicycle in India.' 'I know, you told me.' 'There was that time when . . . [long story while my wife cleared up and cooked for her]' Long period of silence. 'Where do you live?'
Her sole offspring, a son, lived near Manchester, and got down frequently with wife and son. She would not leave the house as she believed (probably correctly) that her son would kidnap her and keep her in the special granny anex he had built at his house. Lovely chap, but frustrated as to what to do.
My wife began to feel the strain and I looked into a local group for carers.
They organised professionals to give advice and help, and the group could organise 'days off' where one carer would fit another one in during a day, so allowing the normal carer to have a free day. They were very professional. There was a charge, not much, for membership. I'd got all the documentation, visited the group, and was about to broach the subject to my wife when the old girl was taken into hospital where she died after a couple of days, keeping going long enough for her family to attend. I don't know what my wife would have said but to me it seemed a reasonable response. I didn't feel guilty about what I'd done.
There is a lot that local authorities can do. These groups can show you options and point you in the right direction. I would assume that it might be a pleasant evening chatting to one another about the problems.
Will see if there are any local groups.There are self help groups. My wife took our next door neighbour under her wing (she tends to collect them) when she was infirm. She wasn't expected to live more than a few months but she was a game old bird and stuck two fingers up at the grim reaper. My wife would chat to her about what was going on locally but the old girl would always talk about the same period of time, when she was in India before the war with her husband, a high-up in the army. It fascinated me but I only heard the same story a couple of times. With regular visits it must have been a strain. There was also the problem with repeated questions: 'Where do you live?' 'Next door.' 'With Mr Tomson?' 'No, he moved out fifteen years ago. I've been living there since. You know, with [repeat kids names].' 'Oh, yes. Of course. Your husband rides a bicycle. My Henry rode a bicycle in India.' 'I know, you told me.' 'There was that time when . . . [long story while my wife cleared up and cooked for her]' Long period of silence. 'Where do you live?'
Her sole offspring, a son, lived near Manchester, and got down frequently with wife and son. She would not leave the house as she believed (probably correctly) that her son would kidnap her and keep her in the special granny anex he had built at his house. Lovely chap, but frustrated as to what to do.
My wife began to feel the strain and I looked into a local group for carers.
They organised professionals to give advice and help, and the group could organise 'days off' where one carer would fit another one in during a day, so allowing the normal carer to have a free day. They were very professional. There was a charge, not much, for membership. I'd got all the documentation, visited the group, and was about to broach the subject to my wife when the old girl was taken into hospital where she died after a couple of days, keeping going long enough for her family to attend. I don't know what my wife would have said but to me it seemed a reasonable response. I didn't feel guilty about what I'd done.
There is a lot that local authorities can do. These groups can show you options and point you in the right direction. I would assume that it might be a pleasant evening chatting to one another about the problems.
She can pay for someone to come in, just not sure where you get someone reliable and how much it costs.
Edited by J4CKO on Tuesday 17th January 21:09
J4CKO said:
She can pay for someone to come in, just not sure where you get someone reliable and how much it costs.
Good point. The church sent one of their flock around and she used to steal money from the old girl. I, to my shame, told my wife that she'd probably lost it, stuck it somewhere safe or put it in the bin. When we eventually totalled how much was missing I realised how wrong I'd been. The finger could have pointed at my wife. The son, with the police, put marked money in the house and the help was found out. She used to put the money in the collecting tin. The church was not of a mind to return said funds.Edited by J4CKO on Tuesday 17th January 21:09
So strangers coming into the house need watching.
Derek Smith said:
J4CKO said:
She can pay for someone to come in, just not sure where you get someone reliable and how much it costs.
Good point. The church sent one of their flock around and she used to steal money from the old girl. I, to my shame, told my wife that she'd probably lost it, stuck it somewhere safe or put it in the bin. When we eventually totalled how much was missing I realised how wrong I'd been. The finger could have pointed at my wife. The son, with the police, put marked money in the house and the help was found out. She used to put the money in the collecting tin. The church was not of a mind to return said funds.Edited by J4CKO on Tuesday 17th January 21:09
So strangers coming into the house need watching.
Shinobi said:
Really hope you find a solution OP, finding a decent care agency is a mission in itself. Sadly the good staff then seem to leave.
Yeah, my mates mum cant be doing with them, someone not interested half warming a can of soup, she can do that herself, properly.I think partly my gran cant do things, but equally she seems to like being waited on, she is a bit passive agressive, if my mum wont do something she threatens to do it herself which would probably involve a fall, she has it all going on, she seem shappy enough, three meals again her soaps and daytime telly, she isnt interested in going out, my brother bought them an afternoon tea at a posh hotel, always made excuses, just too much faff for her I think.
if they are truly "carers" (and it certainly sounds like it) then contact the local authority/council and request a carer's assessment of needs and quote the new Care Act at them when they get bolshy - statutory duty to assess need. salient points would be conditions 1 + 2 of the eligibility criteria
a carer's needs will be assessed regardless of whether or not the cared for has had their own assessment of needs so granny's engagement (or otherwise) with officialdom is irrelevant.
as care is shared, each carer is entitled to their own assessment and although, clearly, it would make sense to assess all carers and the cared for at the same time, this is not mandated.
regarding granny; every local authority has a statutory duty to assess need. the duty is triggered by the knowledge of a potentially vulnerable adult on the patch. contact the local authority adult social services and tell them about her. thus, they have knowledge and the duty is owed.
all kinds of things may then become available - respite carers, personal budgets or whatever they're called nowadays, etc. A FAB assessment (financial status of the cared for) will follow which will establish levels of contribution (from the cared for)
paul
a carer's needs will be assessed regardless of whether or not the cared for has had their own assessment of needs so granny's engagement (or otherwise) with officialdom is irrelevant.
as care is shared, each carer is entitled to their own assessment and although, clearly, it would make sense to assess all carers and the cared for at the same time, this is not mandated.
regarding granny; every local authority has a statutory duty to assess need. the duty is triggered by the knowledge of a potentially vulnerable adult on the patch. contact the local authority adult social services and tell them about her. thus, they have knowledge and the duty is owed.
all kinds of things may then become available - respite carers, personal budgets or whatever they're called nowadays, etc. A FAB assessment (financial status of the cared for) will follow which will establish levels of contribution (from the cared for)
paul
Halb said:
Can Gran not move in with one of her kids?
She lives in the other half of my aunties semi detached bungalow, it came up for sale a couple of years back, she cant get much closer, my mum is just round the corner, she used to live 15 miles away the other side of Manchester so we all spent a lot of time on the M60.Also, dont think they would want to, my mum and dad have a 2 storey house, and she is near enough to my auntie, cant get much closer and I think they would all go mental, I have seen how she can be hard work, she faffs, fusses and has long, drawn out rituals that have to be followed.
paulmakin said:
if they are truly "carers" (and it certainly sounds like it) then contact the local authority/council and request a carer's assessment of needs and quote the new Care Act at them when they get bolshy - statutory duty to assess need. salient points would be conditions 1 + 2 of the eligibility criteria
a carer's needs will be assessed regardless of whether or not the cared for has had their own assessment of needs so granny's engagement (or otherwise) with officialdom is irrelevant.
as care is shared, each carer is entitled to their own assessment and although, clearly, it would make sense to assess all carers and the cared for at the same time, this is not mandated.
regarding granny; every local authority has a statutory duty to assess need. the duty is triggered by the knowledge of a potentially vulnerable adult on the patch. contact the local authority adult social services and tell them about her. thus, they have knowledge and the duty is owed.
all kinds of things may then become available - respite carers, personal budgets or whatever they're called nowadays, etc. A FAB assessment (financial status of the cared for) will follow which will establish levels of contribution (from the cared for)
paul
She has enough money but is very careful, not sure what she would be saving for at 91 but she is super frugal, but to be honest I would say just bloody pay for it if you can afford it and give your daughters a break now and again.a carer's needs will be assessed regardless of whether or not the cared for has had their own assessment of needs so granny's engagement (or otherwise) with officialdom is irrelevant.
as care is shared, each carer is entitled to their own assessment and although, clearly, it would make sense to assess all carers and the cared for at the same time, this is not mandated.
regarding granny; every local authority has a statutory duty to assess need. the duty is triggered by the knowledge of a potentially vulnerable adult on the patch. contact the local authority adult social services and tell them about her. thus, they have knowledge and the duty is owed.
all kinds of things may then become available - respite carers, personal budgets or whatever they're called nowadays, etc. A FAB assessment (financial status of the cared for) will follow which will establish levels of contribution (from the cared for)
paul
J4CKO said:
She makes Albert Steptoe look profligate, she may be 91 but she has the financial brain of an accountant, she isnt one of those old ladies who wouldnt notice, would probably find the carer going home ten quid light
Good on her.My elder son has a grandmother-in-law who is 94 and still works. Her eyes, she assures my son, are as good as they ever were yet it takes four people to life her glasses.
My younger son is engaged to a woman whose grandmother is 90. She's a character with a full repertoire of life affirming stories. These old biddies are great.
I had to take a complaint from a woman about one of my PCs. My lad was in the wrong, knew it and had apologised, which she accepted, but I thought she deserved a visit. She'd flown to South Africa in a Tiger Moth and then went on to Australia, route unknown but I assumed via India. There was a picture of her standing on one of the Giza pyramids in full flying gear, cap and goggles in hand, looked rather fetching. She raced a single seater, it looked like a Cooper, but then most did, after the war when she must have been 40. Her room was full of photographs and each told a story. She was about 90, still spry and with it.
It was 30 mins into the visit before I got around to the error on our behalf. I then stayed for a bit longer.
There was an old boy who lived in a house I used to pass quite often when walking my dog. He would give a cheery 'Good morning' but I never talked with him. He died. His obituary in the local paper said that he'd been part of the team that entered the U-Boat in the Med and captured the Enigma machine. But no one knew.
If that had been me, everyone would have known. I'd have used U-110 as my name on here and brought Enigma machines into every thread. No point in being a hero if you don't tell anyone.
I took my mother, then 84, to the second wedding of her eldest grandson - my brother's eldest. At one of the quiet periods before the service she said, in a voice which pierced the church: 'I hope this one last a bit longer than his first.' It was what everyone was thinking but boy did she get some looks.
Life is the poorer with these old characters. I might be one myself in a few years.
Derek Smith said:
J4CKO said:
She makes Albert Steptoe look profligate, she may be 91 but she has the financial brain of an accountant, she isnt one of those old ladies who wouldnt notice, would probably find the carer going home ten quid light
Good on her.My elder son has a grandmother-in-law who is 94 and still works. Her eyes, she assures my son, are as good as they ever were yet it takes four people to life her glasses.
My younger son is engaged to a woman whose grandmother is 90. She's a character with a full repertoire of life affirming stories. These old biddies are great.
I had to take a complaint from a woman about one of my PCs. My lad was in the wrong, knew it and had apologised, which she accepted, but I thought she deserved a visit. She'd flown to South Africa in a Tiger Moth and then went on to Australia, route unknown but I assumed via India. There was a picture of her standing on one of the Giza pyramids in full flying gear, cap and goggles in hand, looked rather fetching. She raced a single seater, it looked like a Cooper, but then most did, after the war when she must have been 40. Her room was full of photographs and each told a story. She was about 90, still spry and with it.
It was 30 mins into the visit before I got around to the error on our behalf. I then stayed for a bit longer.
There was an old boy who lived in a house I used to pass quite often when walking my dog. He would give a cheery 'Good morning' but I never talked with him. He died. His obituary in the local paper said that he'd been part of the team that entered the U-Boat in the Med and captured the Enigma machine. But no one knew.
If that had been me, everyone would have known. I'd have used U-110 as my name on here and brought Enigma machines into every thread. No point in being a hero if you don't tell anyone.
I took my mother, then 84, to the second wedding of her eldest grandson - my brother's eldest. At one of the quiet periods before the service she said, in a voice which pierced the church: 'I hope this one last a bit longer than his first.' It was what everyone was thinking but boy did she get some looks.
Life is the poorer with these old characters. I might be one myself in a few years.
Your little vignettes are sweet, but irrelevant.
Pothole said:
Now imagine being forced to repeat that experience with the old girl every day, with the same stories being told interspersed with moaning.
Your little vignettes are sweet, but irrelevant.
Perhaps I should have mentioned the old girl who lived next door to us. Oh! Wait . . . Your little vignettes are sweet, but irrelevant.
I come from a big, long-lived family. No imagination required. Perhaps I didn't want to moan.
I should not have commented on the OP's 4th, and more positive, post.
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